I just found out today that my department is officially closing and I will be laid off, so it could be that he is just upset and stressed about that too.

H just called to apologize. Says he doesn't even want to go on the boat ride, he was upset because his co-workers were giving him crap about being to "whipped" to go. He says they are teasing him for not being a team player. Whatever.

Wayward mentality = thinking like a wayward. May not be in an active affair, but is probably vulnerable to one.

Thinking like a wayward is not something you can make him stop doing. He will have to put forth the effort and actively change himself by following this program.

He'd better be pretty eager to follow his EPs to the letter. I'd be worried if he's already showing upsetness at having to keep them.

He can tell them that his wife is prettier and more important than they'll ever be. So stuff it.

fyi, they were teasing him about being "whipped" because he used you as the reason he wasn't going. He told them you wouldn't let him and threw you under the bus. A better way to handle it would have been to man up and take responsibility for his own choices. "Sorry I have changed my mind and won't be going." He didn't have to play the "wife won't let me" card.

I think they heard him talking to me about it on the phone. He works in a small open office and people close to him can hear. I can even hear them making rude comments in the background sometimes. He works with a bunch of male [censored]. Im sure that contributes to his wayward mindset. It's better than him working with a bunch of women though I think.

All the more reason not to go to company events like the boatride without you.

From now on, your marriage comes first. Get a babysitter and go on a date that night instead.

Great idea! Thanks.

IMHO, in paragraph one above, hbd tells us that her marriage never really recovered from her husband's affair. The two of them did not make it through that first mess.

Then, in paragraph two, she tells us the real reason for this threesome - which is....

revenge.


What this threesome amounts to is a revenge affair, performed directly in front of the spouse, with the spouse somehow participating. Maybe the "BS" in this case has a need for the WW to do this, so he can feel like they can "move on" now?


Are the two of them "even"?


This wayward husband probably believes that they are. He set it up perfectly, didn't he?




SB

This couple needs more professional help than I think the boards might be able to offer...

She has contacted Dr. Harley via his radio show, and will be calling in soon.

A. He cheated.

B. He thought, "Okay, you sleep w someone and we'll be even."

C. She was scared.

D. He convinced her it was safe as long as he was there.

E. She agreed.

F. Husband thinks they are even.

G. She feels guilty and confused.

H. Were the kids in the house while this was going on??? Did you get a babysitter? Leave the kids at Mom's? "Hey, Mom. Want to take the kids for the night while we go have a threesome?" Doubt mom would have agreed to that. There's definitely a lot of lying going on here.

The kids were camping with the grandparents, something that had been planned for months. We werent even staying at home, we went to a concert and were staying at a nearby hotel. We went out to the bars after the concert. We did not actually go out that night expecting to find someone that would come home with us. It was something we found fun to talk about, but didn't actually think it would happen. We both had way too much to drink and let things go too far (not that it's an excuse but it contributed to our lack of judgement). We would NEVER do something like that with kids in the house or even do that in our own house.

Your summary of the situation is way too simple. There were a lot of factors that contributed to this mess, including my own fascination with being with two men at once. I know all of you think it's disgusting, but I have to be honest about how I truly feel. It's not easy to admit, in fact it's very embarrassing. But, I'm not going to just allow everyone to shift the blame to my h. We share the blame for this mess equally.

If there was lying with regard to the threesome, it was me lying to myself. I thought that I would be ok with it because it was something we shared together, but I did not think about the guilt I would feel for committing adultery. That is on me and I take full responsibility and I'm working to fix the things that led to this mess.

Ok, I said I wouldnt post on this thread again, but feel compelled to.

I have noticed your honesty about yourself hbd, you seem to take all the 2x4s unflinchingly, which is a good sign. You seem also to have woken up to the fact that you 'were lying to yourself'. This is fantastic - and you must stop doing it. Lying to oneself is the most dangerous lie of all.

What does seem to escape your notice is that the favourite lies you tell to yourself are about your husband and his truthfulness and regard for you.

Time and time again on here I have heard you express baffling faith in your h.

"we will work it out" "he says"

So what if he says something? He has lied to you consistently. You're not stupid either. You choose to believe him because you can't face the possibility of having to Plan B him - or leave him for good if it comes to that.

His addiction to porn made you unhappy so you asked him to stop.
he agreed, but lied.

Realising that you would rather do anything than set firm boundaries you made the curious deal with him to watch porn together. This would have required lying to yourself about that your marriage is just your sole responsibility and not his.

I have the curious feeling that this deal re porn didnt give you the 'togetherness' you were craving. Probably at this point you lied to yourself some more and told yourself that you would just have to go that 'extra mile' for him. As long as that extra mile did not involve telling him he would lose you if he continued to behave this way.

I am assuming he had the affair at some point here....
(add the amount of lies he told you about that yourself, here)

Then he told you that rather than face his feelings of guilt and shame honestly, like a man, he would rather sweep them under the rug by having you even the score with a threesome.

You knew (because I can tell you aren't stupid) that he was pimping you out to save his own conscience.

Yes you had your own ideas that you are ashamed of but honestly, read the above sentence again.

You knew you were okay with this bizarre proposition because you were clean out of ideas of ways to get him to show love for you, without going to Plan B or kicking him out.

You knew that a man who was willing to watch you with another, had practically no feelings of love for you and did not respect you. However you lied to yourself that it was possible to make him jealous.

You may be able to wrench him out of waywardness. It will proabably involve doing everything that Dr Harley tells you to on the radio to the letter.

I am just afraid that if Dr H tells you to plan b him, you won't be willing to do something that difficult.

I dont know whether you fear making him angry or just dont want the pain of being without him, but you have done some crazy things to avoid plan b.

You do share the blame for this mess equally. But once you stop lying to yourself about your h's truthfulness and his ability to care for you, your side of the street will be a lot cleaner.

Indiegirl - did you read my whole "betrayed again" thread?

Your comments are giving me the impression that you stopped reading half way through the thread and missed the part where my h has done everything I have asked of him... He stands by no contact with OW (I confirm this with snooping), wrote NC letter, gave me access to all of his email and phone information, schedules ua time with me, meets all my needs, reads relationship books with me, goes to a counselor to discuss his issues, wrote a recovery plan and is sticking to it, set boundaries for himself, and is completely open and honest with me.

If he does break no contact with OW, I am prepared to move on to plan b. Dont worry, I am keeping a close eye on him (I just don't want to discuss my techniques on here as my h may read them).

As far as the porn is concerned... I Like porn. I enjoy watching It with him. In fact some of the stuff I like to watch is even more kinky than the stuff he likes. I asked him
not to watch it by himself because I wanted us to share it together. He doesnt watch it by himself anymore (I know this for fact by snooping - not sure where you got the idea he lied about that) and he has agreed to stop watching it together.

My h did lie in the beginning (as ALL waywards do), but there is no indication he is lying anymore (believe me, I have looked). Aside from the threesome, he has been working very hard to earn my forgiveness. There is no reason to plan b him when he is following the recovery plan.

Which is all great stuff. And your other thread reflects that.

This thread however talks about him wanting to dodge repsonsibility for the affair by using a threesome. And you wanting to let him.

That is a massive alarm bell that he is in a wayward frame of mind. This would mean you cant take anything he says on faith.

I have alreay said Dr H needs to give the advice here,

Just glad to hear you ARE keeping a close eye on him, cause I wasnt hearing that.

I should also add that we both lied to each other about watching porn before we started being o&h. We were both too embarrassed to admit to each other the kind of kinky stuff we like (porn, bdsm, anal, etc.). As a result, we were both watching porn behind each others backs and lying about it (yes, I did - embarrassing to admit, but true). It was only after being completely o&h that we realized we liked the same stuff and were actually watching the same type of kinky porn seperately. That is when we determined that we would only watch porn together. It was an eye opener for us and made us realize how important o&h really is in our relationship.

I said all of this in my email to Dr. Harley. Just waiting to hear back from him on when to call the show.

prisca - do you still think I'm no more twisted than other waywards?

Yes, I do think he still has a wayward state of mind. I'm hoping that following the recovery plan will change that. Only time will tell. Hoping for the best and some great advice from dr Harley.

I'm supposed to think you're more twisted because you looked at porn? Hardly.

Stop comparing yourself to other waywards. It's not going to solve anything for you. You've got enough to worry about without dwelling on whether you're worse or better than other waywards.

Let us know when you hear back from the Harleys.

Well, that, and the fact that I like bdsm, anal, and sleeping with two men at once.


I haven't heard back from them, but I will let you know as soon as I do!!!

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to get a response from them? The website says within one day, but I haven't heard anything.