Tough situation. My wife and I get along and all, but aside from playing footsies on the couch, there is no romantic relationship and at the present time I'm unable to create that. She is not interested in SF because she is afraid of getting pregnant. We are at a standstill because I don't want a vasectomy and she doesn't like condoms. She said it is up to her and she'll "figure it out" but hasn't done anything in terms of appointments, etc, and I can't make her. The longer we go without SF, the more I get insecure again. I hate this but I don't know what to do. Bringing up the subject makes her feel pressured and typically leads to a fight. Any suggestions?

Can you at least find non intercourse ways to be close physically? I know that contraception choices suck, that there is just no option that does not have side effects and its about finding the one you can both tolerate most easily.

We keep returning to the IUD, deciding its the lesser of two evils each time we decide to try something else so I'm now on my third one of those.

Oops.

I would suggest you go through the Four Guidelines to Successful Negotiation together, once a week, on this subject. See if you can agree on a day and a timeframe (maybe just an hour), and work through the guidelines. Stay on guideline one until you both agree that it is fulfilled to your satisfaction, move to guideline two and do what that says and stay there until you both agree the other understands your position, then move to guideline three, etc.

During this time, you get the chance to explain how important SF is to you, in a respectful and nondemanding way. Of course if she feels you become disrespectful or demanding, she gets the safety of knowing she can terminate the discussion.

This is a really bad place to be stuck. Don't nag, but once a week respectfully express your dissatisfaction with the situation. The "do nothing" part of the policy of joint agreement is designed to motivate the two of you to find a solution that makes you both happy; it is not designed to keep you at "do nothing" forever if "do nothing" makes one or both of you unhappy.

By the way: bringing up the past and discussing who is to blame is disrespectful, and violates guideline one.

Try this some time when she's grumpy: Say to her, "You look like you're having a stressful day. Let's see if this helps." Then start dancing. Make it as silly and kooky a dance as possible. If the kids are around, invite them to join in. But don't tell them it's because Mommy is grumpy. Instead, just say that you're dancing because dancing always cheers you up. Hopefully, this will prompt laughter or at least a smile from your wife. Do this a couple of times. On other occasions when she's grumpy, you can just offer, "Do you need me to dance for you? Because I'll do it. Don't think I won't!"

It's not a solution to the grumps, but a tactic for lightening the mood in the house.

Whatever happens ... do not let feelings dictate your actions. Rule number one is still "calm down." Trust me. Don't ever violate this rule.

How does Grace feel that you are doing on love busters?

The only way to get pregnant is to have PIV sex. But there are so many other ways to have sex that do not involve putting the P in the V. It's likely that not all of those ways are your or your wife's cup of tea. But there have to be some non-PIV sex acts that you both enjoy, right?

I don't think helping Hilltopper and his wife with guideline three of negotiation is likely to be very helpful until they both feel that they've gotten through guidelines one and two. Brainstorming is fairly easy, as is research. Making the discussion safe and understanding each other's point of view are harder, and are prerequisites before the brainstorming will be much use.

I've asked about "other" things but she isn't into it. She was never not into it before. I think she wasn't to avoid anything that could possibly put her in the mood for sex.

I totally understand her point of view. Baby has changed our lives and she is totally stressed. Having another child is NOT an option. That dominates her thinking as it pertains to SF. I have to do something, because at this pace nothing is gonna happen. Me going without my #1 EN isn't good for our marriage, and she would agree with this.

If retaining the ability to have more kids is so important to you, even though your wife has stated that she is 100% opposed to having more kids, then I think you need to assess how committed you are to this marriage. Not meant in an accusatory way. Merely stating the facts as they appear to me from your post.

You could have more sex next week if you got a vasectomy tomorrow. But you refuse. To me, that says you value the possibility of more kids higher than you value sex. Without sex, you realize that your marriage is at risk of failing. So by refusing to get a V, you are implicitly valuing the possibility of future kids higher than you value your marriage.

By refusing to get a V, you are implicitly saying to your wife "I am not sure I am going to remain married to you, so I want to keep my options open. I might meet a woman who wants more kids. I don't want her to reject me because I got a V." I can easily understand why your wife is rarely in the mood to have sex with you if she imagines you are thinking what I just wrote.

Look, the years when you have small kids are often tough on a couple's sex life. You brought another baby into your life just when the older kids are becoming less needy and you might have had time for more UA / each other. Your choice. Now you need to deal with the consequences. When you add the "I will not get a V", it makes it that much harder.

Hold, Hilltopper doesn't need to defend why he feels like he doesn't want a vasectomy.

Holding,

I don't understand that mentality - there are side effects and other reasons not to have a V. The wife could get an IUD put in and have sex the same day. Easy Peasy, no pain, no hormones.

She's not exercising her options for BC either. He's got one option that is a surgical (albeit minor) procedure when women have at least 15 options that are non surgical that she's outright refusing.

Steph

That's the kind of thing that needs to get talked about extensively in negotiation. You find out her perspective, she founds out your perspective, you gain information so that you can brainstorm solutions that take both perspectives into account.

QFT

The only way to get through this with both Hilltopper and Grace happy is to use the Four Guidelines for Negotiation. Nothing else will work.

Guilting Hilltopper into a vasectomy he doesn't want is not going to do anybody any good.

Thanks for the assist here. The possibility of having more children with another woman in the future has nothing to do with my feelings on having a vasectomy. It never crossed my mind. I'll reread Four Guidelines and start on #1 with wife.

I understand that he should not do anything if he is not enthusiastic. Just pointing out how this may come across to his wife, so he can explore her feelings.

They need to explore the other methods of birth control besides condoms or vasectomy. They need to explore other aspects of sex besides PIV intercourse. He needs to create a safe environment to discuss these things so she can share her truth.

I wrote what I would be thinking if I were his wife. I doubt she would admit to thinking those thoughts if she were thinking them. As he tries to create a safe environment for her, he needs to take into account that she may have fears he cannot imagine.

My wife said we could have sex a few days ago. I asked her yesterday if we could and she said, "not unless you get a V." She then later that evening mocked me in front of some friends that were over saying, "Well he would get a lot more sex if he got a V." Either my wife has a low libido, doesn't want to have sex with me, or is fulfilling that need elsewhere. She has shown to be perfectly fine with no SF in her life, at least with me. The rest of our marriage is pretty good to be honest, but I'm extremely unhappy with my #1 need going unmet. My approaches on even discussing the subject are met with sarcasm and put-offs, and she brings up me not getting a V over and over again. I'm angry and bitter and am avoiding her because I am afraid I'll say something wrong. I wish she'd come here, but she won't do that either.