Hi all,

I've been reading here since the most recent of my d-days on 7/2/10. First, thank you all for sharing your stories and your wisdom and for letting us lurkers learn from you.

My question is this: I understand that NC is critical. I insisted on that with my WH prior to even finding MB. However, recently I've seen statements made on various threads that indicate that years down the road, a single unintended C would throw R back to square one. Why is this the case?

For example, I could run into an old BF (not an A) and I wouldn't automatically re-develop feelings for him. So why, if my (F?)WH should run into OW months or years from now would this be such a critical issue?

(oh and can someone please tell me how I create a signature with all my pertinent info?) Thanks!!

lightheared - glad you're here. As to the NC question, I'm not sure I am the best to explain that...

But I CAN tell you how to get a sigg

Up top where it says

Forum List | My Stuff | Active Topics | Search | FAQ

Click on My Stuff, then Click on Edit Profile

Down at the bottom is a box for Signature

That's where you put in the pertinent info.

Glad you're here.

The reason is because an affair is an addiction. If you understand that, then much of what Dr Harley says makes sense. I am an alcoholic who has not drank in 25 years. I don't miss alcohol nor do I think about it. But if I sat in a bar again and smelled the alcohol and had a small drink, all those powerful feelings would come rushing back. I guarantee you I would be off and running again in no time. Those long dormant feelings could fast be awakened.

It is the same with adultery. Many former WS's will tell you they no longer have feelings for the OP years later. But put them in close proximity and those feelings will be triggered.

Dr Harley is one of the rare few who understand the addictive aspect of an affair. The reason is because he operated a chain of treatment centers early in his career. He recognized the connection. Recovering alcoholics who come here see it too.


Well, yes they could come back if you run into an old boyfriend. In fact, many of the affairs that show up on this board are with old boyfriends/girlfriends. This is why Dr Harley says DON'T maintain relationships with old beaus. Old beaus and opposite sex friendships are how affairs start.

And the people who usually have affairs are the ones who say "it couldn't happen to me! I wouldn't do that!" That is because THOSE are the people that have the sloppiest boundaries. They are the drunk drivers who say "I am a great drunk driver" and behave in risky behavior that leads to problems.

LH1,

You perhaps were referring to a posting I made earlier today?

I had had bad feelings about my wife and OM for years, then when my wife and I ran into OM 5 years ago, 15 years approx after the affair, it brought everything back again. Funny thing is I don't remember the exact dates etc but OMs body language and my wifes excitement at seeing him are fixed in my mind.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,
Yes, that is one of the posts I was wondering about. I would have thought that after say five (or some other arbitrary number) years or so we would be "all clear". Very disappointing to find out otherwise but better to be informed!

ML,
As an ex-smoker who quit and relapsed several times I can relate to your analogy. I guess I wasn't totally sold on the A as an addiction - at least not in the same sense as substance abuse. Hmmm......I do totally see that I was "addicted" during my A but my H seems like such a non-addiction-prone person and has stated before, during, and after his A that "it couldn't happen"...so funny you said that....I guess I was believing that he was different.

I've been very hesitant to post but I'm really glad I asked this question. Thank you!

Vibrissa,
I think I've got my sig figured out now - thanks to you - but let's see.....

Okay, so here's why I was asking.....

H lost his job two years ago and we took our life savings to purchase a business which he runs....and is just now getting profitable...and is unfortunately almost an hour from our home. I work full-time close to home. H's AP lives in the town where his business is and she works three blocks from his office. They met when she made an office visit - she's a sales rep.

Dday happened when I drove up there on 7/2/10 and caught them coming out of her home when he was supposed to be working - obviously I had been suspicious...which is why I was checking. OW and I both let H have it at that time as he had told her we were separated. I told her he had slept with me the night before and again that morning and she informed me that they had just finished having sex twice that afternoon....my H is a machine, I tell ya! HA! They had been sexual since February....they met in late January. After H left, I spent a couple of hours with OW learning awful, horrible details of the A which she was only too happy to provide. BTW she was kind enough to inform H before he left that she had been sleeping around on him too because she suspected that he was still with me.

Anyway, here's how "NC" has gone....please keep in mind that this was prior to my knowing anyting about MB:

H had been keeping his motorcycle in her garage since they had been seeing each other so he went over there (with a chaparone - an elderly lady who works for him and who has known about the affair for a long time and who repeatedly tried to tell my H that he was making a grave mistake). He got his cycle out of her garage and she asked him to come in. He told her "no" and pointed out that his employee was waiting for him in the car. OW gave him the cycle key and left it at that. Later that night when he was working late she showed up at his office and he let her in. She was asking for "closure" and pressured him to admit how "real" their love was (puke) and how they were right for each other and how I was not right for him at all. According to H he denied that there was anything real about their A and that this conversation lasted about 1/2 hour before he finally got her out of his office and told here there was to be no more contact and that despite her repeated requests they could not remain "friends"

H then called me and told me that he'd just seen her and told me about their talk. I e-mailed OW the next day and gave her his version of events that night. She e-mailed back that he was still lying to me but refused to tell me what actually happened.

I welcome any insight into my situation. Also, I am wondering about whether I've/we've done enough to establish NC. I'm thinking not but I don't know what steps to take. Thanks again.

I would talk to your H again and say "I know you are not telling me the whole truth, and you are lying, tell me exactly what you said to her, if you can't tell me the truth then there is the door."

Sorry - actually I did have that conversation with H and he got extremely angry w/OW and said that he's telling the truth. I e-mailed OW again (2x actually) and have received no response back.

No, you have NOT done enough. NC applies to YOU as well. This OW can play this back and forth game all she wants.

To enforce NC your H must write her a letter which YOU approve and send to the OW. Then both of you drop off the face of the earth for all she knows. Block her phone number, email address, EVERYTHING.

Consider selling your H's business if contact can occur that way.

Remover her COMPLETELY from your lives.

Welcome lighthearted1, in looking at your signature it appears that your WH's A started the year OF or a year BEFORE you guys were married, and your A began in the second or third year of your marriage. Is that correct?

He's been involved in an A since the beginning of your marriage?

What happened in your first marriages?

Ooooh boy - such an insightful question!

Yes, that is correct. His first marriage of 15 years was over years before I met him. He got married at 17 and he was a serial cheater in that marriage. He had been living with his GF (the one who he left his first wife for) for at least a couple of years when we met. I knew him for about three years through work before he and I got to know each other personally. I can honestly say there was not even an inkling of anything between us until after they had broken up and he moved out of their home. We started seeing each other maybe 2-3 months later.

On my side. I was a serial cheater in my first marriage too - a nasty, disgusting, horrible cheater. I was married to a really good guy. I was going through a divorce - initiated by me - at the time H and I started "dating". In my mind at that time it was not cheating but I know better now.

I've been through a lot of counseling (both secular and through my church) to deal with my past and disentangle myself from the twisted logic and values that allowed me to hurt the people I should love most. This site has been a real eye opener as well!

Oh and I didn't realize that NC applied to me as well. I can see why though. I'm going to talk to H about the NC letter tonight. I don't think he'll have a problem with it but if he does then we'll have a whole 'nother set of problems so we'll see.

Originally Posted By: raindownHelp,

You remind me of my FBH. Twelve years ago he surrendered to my OM and the evil cr@p I pulled without a fight. To this day we BOTH regret our actions. I've been in a miserable affairage for ten years. He has never remarried and barely dated. We've both had to file bankruptcy. Our two kids have been shuttled back and forth between our houses. Son is depressed. Daughter has an eating disorder. It is all my fault but FBH could have saved us ALL. Will you do this FOR yourself, your wife, and your kids? It would be completely understandable if you are unwilling. You do have POWER in this situation that you don't seem to comprehend.

And your here now because your OM/WH is having an affair on you?

You had an honorable man and broke him, and damaged your two kids.

Why stay with the OM/WH now. They cheat with you they cheat on you. Your OM/WH has always been a serial cheater.

Why are you trying to recover with a serial cheater?

How can you let you and your BH's kids live under the OM's roof?

The OM that help destroyed their family.
The OM that helped damage these kids.

How does the OM's orig kids get along with the OM?

How does OM' orig kids, your orig kids, and , both of your second set of kids get along? Do the interact much?

When are you going to realize what posion the OM is and remove them from your families life?

When are going to make amends to them and how will you do it?

And for how much longer are you going to blame your "BH for not saving you all" by not fighting. I'm sure he did the best he could at the time knowing what he did. Not every one finds MB in time or ever.

What evil crap did you pull on your BH?

How did you fight him dirty?

Again how are you going to make amends to BH and your original kids?

What have you said post divorce to your BH and your orig kids on your responsibilities for the way things went down and are now?

I don't blame XBH for not fighting. He's a good guy. He deserves no blame. And you are exactly correct that he could at the time knowing what he did. He rolled over and gave me what I wanted. Just like the person I was posting to is doing.

Of OM's orig kids, 2 of the 3 don't talk to him. He left their mother for another woman six years or so before I met him. He never married his OW. His oldest daughter and I have been very close for a few years now and eventually she and her Dad have gotten very close as well. She knows the truth about everything and I do mean everything.

I had multiple affairs on my X in the last couple of years of our marriage. I used our lack of sex life to justify it in my mind. (XH and I had sex maybe five times in the ten years we were together.) We both had issues with intimacy.

I told XH that I wanted a divorce because I "wasn't happy". What I didn't tell him at the time was that I knew that the truth of my adultery was a ticking time bomb and that what I had done would not stay hidden forever.

While going through our divorce, I started seeing my current H. X was aware of it. I fought him dirty in that I did not tell him my true motivation in wanted a divorce for fear it would jeapordize ME GETTING WHAT I WANTED. Well I got what I wanted alright.

About a year ago, I finally came clean to my X. He already knew or at least strongly suspected. Now as I have experienced years of infidelity from my current H and I finally had to face what I had done. I'm still coming to grips with the level of depravity, selfishness, and what I would say is true evil that I am/was capable of.

I still need to come clean with my kids. Somehow after reading here for a year that never sunk in. Your post has brought that to light. It's amazing how blind I can be. I will talk to them over the weekend. Just to be clear, I have told them that I was 1000% responsible for the divorce. I've just never owned up to my As. They know that I think the world of their dad.

My daughter despises my current H. My son is withdrawn and it's hard to say what he thinks. I know that he is very happy to be leaving home for college in a couple of weeks.

The two kids that my H and I have together are doing well. They love their big brother and big sister and big bro and sis love them.

As far as making amends...I don't know. I've made such a mess of things.

Thank you for responding. I have to ask why are you staying with a serial cheater?

Have your kids ever responded wanting to live with their dad because they don't want to live with the OM?

Have you ever asked them this?

How do your orig kids and the OM function together?

Well have you told your kids this weekend?

Any amends progress?

Yes, I spoke with my each of my kids separately including the two youngest. They all said that they already knew. They each said that I told them last summer when my current H's most recent affair came out. A lot of that time last year is a complete blur and I don't remember. So I asked them if they had any questions or anything they wanted to say to me regarding my A's the D, etc. My older daughter just told me that she wished I would get a D from my H but that she also doesn't want the two littler kids to go through their parents getting a D.

I am at a loss on how to make amends.

For the past year, my DD has lived primarily with her dad. My son too for the past couple of months. I realize now how selfish it was of me to subject them to living with us at all. My H does not attend DS and DD's functions such as birthday dinners, etc when he is not wanted.

There's got to be a lot that I should be doing but I swear I am at a loss.

As far as why I stay with a serial cheater. Remember I am a serial cheater too. I treated my first marriage as disposable. I will not do that again. I understand that I would be justified in ending my marriage. My H's last affair ended just over a year ago. I have to say that H appears to have changed since that time. His treatment of me has greatly improved. Who am I to say that he doesn't deserve another chance? He is aware though that this is his last one.

I'd like to thank you for posting to me TR. I certainly don't expect to receive any direct help on these boards because of my history. There are so many hurting people on here every day. It has been a priviledge to simply be allowed to learn and grow through reading this past year.

You can always choose to become a FORMER serial cheater. The terrible things you have done in the past - and they were truly reprehensible - do not mean that you need to punish yourself by staying in a situation that is wrong.

And that will teach your children that continuing infidelity in a M is to be tolerated.

"H appears to have changed."
"His treatment of me has greatly improved."

More likely he has just gotten even better at hiding what he's doing. After all, he's had lots of practice. Even if you were to ignore the whole aspect of this being an affair marriage (which is about like ignoring a brain tumor the size of a watermelon), in order to heal together from the serial aspect alone, you would both have to be completely broken and humbled.

It sounds like you may be starting to see some light through the fog, just a little. "Appears to have changed" and "greatly improved" indicate he's still in the dark.

How many affairs has OM/WH had while married to you?

Four that I am aware of. Possibly one or two more that he still denies.

One admitted EA - more likely a PA but he still won't admit it...with the OW from his first marriage that lasted from before we were married until at least 3 years into our marriage including during my pregnancy with my 8 year old.

One ONS with a 20 year-old college student of his(he is a part-time adjunct prof). (full disclosure - I had filed for D at this time due to his dishonesty other issues - he convinced me to drop the D after three months)

One EA about to become PA when I caught them with a 40 year-old college student - while I was pregnant with our five year old. He had told this one that we were "separated" which we weren't.

One PA from Jan to July of last year. Found out he was practically living with her and had told her we were "virtually divorced". (He owns a business in another town about an hour away from where we live and he would frequently "stay at his apartment" instead of driving all the way home at night.)