WS and BS how has avoiding giving and receiving answers about what happened during the affair effected things?

Especially long term silence on the subject for years.

Any WS never revealed who their OP was?
Any BS that never learnt who the OP was?

Anyone have to deal with only getting a general outline, because the WS refused to go into detail.

WS and BS please share your story on not telling/not hearing.

Sorry, but that would just never be acceptable to me, lack of openness and honesty one of my important ENs

I would not be able to remain in an marriage without total openness and honesty - past, present and future. I knew OW's identity on D-day. One one occasion, several months after D-day, H said he was "trying to be honest". I replied that his trying was not good enough for me to remain married to him.

Keeping secrets about the affair, especially the identity of the OP, is contradictory to MB principles. I would look for folks with this experience over on the divorce forum. I think that is where they will likely end up.

TheRoad, I see lots of posts on other folk's threads. Do you have a thread with your story? I did not see one.

AM

My WW tried to hide the identity of her AP. She gave me the name of what turned out to be an innocent man. Of course, I set out to confirm her story, and things just didn't add up.

For three months, my every waking hour was consumed with uncovering the identity of her AP. Early on, I found a lot of evidence that revealed who it was, but it was all circumstantial. My WW basically forced me to prove it.

I used telephone and credit card records, business travel vouchers, recovered electronic communications, entries in her travel log, and every other piece of information I could scrounge to painstakingly reconstruct my WW's life. I never hid from her what I was doing, though I hid some of my sources.

About three months in, she suddenly confessed her AP's name. In hindsight, I think she did it to stop my reconstruction, which didn't happen. Three days after her confession, using the records described above, I was able to prove that she spent the night at OM's house when she was supposed to be on a trip to Chicago.

Even with this disclosure, my WW still withheld details of her relationship with OM for another two months, during which time my reconstruction continued. She's finally came clean with everything and my investigation is serving to confirm her story.

A WS first instinct is to withhold information to protect themselves and their AP. When that fails, their next instinct is to withhold information to try to minimize the hurt of the BS. Their third instinct is to withhold information to avoid having to face exposure of all the horrid little things they did to facilitate and cover up their betrayal.

To those WS's reading here: your instinctual actions described above are but a continuation of the singularly self-gratifying behavior that led you into an extramarital affair in the first place. As such, it is highly destructive to everyone around you, especially your BS. Your instincts are wrong; it is imperative that you provide your BS all information requested -- everything!

I know it was impossible for me to consider recovery with my WW without full disclosure of every detail of her relationship with OM. I imagine that a marriage that continues without full disclosure following an affair cannot truly recover. There will always be questions, doubts, missing pieces. I don't believe a BS can ever fully commit themselves to their WS without full disclosure.

Withholding facts is a deal breaker that will make recovery impossible. And waywards who use trickle truth methods only compound the damage they cause to the marriage. Many marriages can recover from adultery; it is very hard to overcome continued deceit after the affair is uncovered.

Complete honesty about the affair is only one of many steps of just compensation. It is not negotiable and if a WS will not come clean, that should trigger Plan B.

When my FWW A came to light, I demanded every bit of detail imaginable. Its ugly work. Thinking back over the few weeks it took for me to satisfy my need to know, I think I took some relative pleasure in how embarassed it made her to tell me stuff. Then, in a turn around, after she felt she told me all there was to know, I think SHE took some pleasure in how angry some of the details made me when I kept on asking the same darn questions. It was at this point that A became part of the past and we started to move forward.

Not that Im fully in the know about the A, I think a BS never will know all there is to know, but I got the gist of it and my questions about it are much less frequent and I imagine they'll stop altogether at some point. I hope.

Any WS's care to give their input?

WS what were long term effects of refusing to talk about the affair?

WS and BS tell your storries about keeping or being kept in the dark.

Dear TheRoad:

I think you recently reviewed my thread...not sure if you are looking for stories where the WS said he/she would not answer questions, or where the WS lied when "answering" questions...I can certainly speak to the lying and long-term deception.

Below are events I found out on September 26, 2010:

CGIR (my H) had an EA/PA with a co-worker from 12/88-7/89. I had always believed she kissed him once at a Christmas party and he turned her down. This information was kept from me for 21 years.

In 1992, he had oral sex with a stripper/prostitute at a bachelor party. I had NO idea this had occurred, and was shocked to find he would do such a thing. This information was kept from me for 18 years.

In 2005, he had an EA/PA with another co-worker that lasted until 2006. During the affair, the only information I got was from listening to his work voice mail and tracking cell phone usage. He obviously lied throughout the affair. CGIR made a partial confession ("one kiss") when the affair was ending in 2006. He did not make a full confession until September, 2010 even though I BEGGED him for the truth. I went to individual therapy for a year and a half to work on MY issues with trust. I was considering going to a psychiatrist for medication as, not surprisingly, the "therapy" didn't "work." CGIR has said he would have let me do it, too, and go through the side effects and health risks.

The truth about the 2006 affair was kept from me for 4 years. Unlike the other two affairs, though, which blindsided me, I knew about this one - heard the evidence with my own ears - and CONSTANTLY questioned him and asked for the truth. He stuck with his stories (one was patently ridiculous and defied the laws of physics), though, until the end. Why didn't I ask him to leave? Gaslighting creates incredible self-doubt, which for me, will never fully diminish. I think some people are more susceptible to gaslighting than others, and I was certainly one of them.

In the interest of full disclosure:

When I was 18 and in college (CGIR and I were dating, not married or engaged, although we planned to be), I had an EA/PA with a fellow student, older than me and married. Details are in my thread. CGIR knew I was involved with him at the time, but not the extent. I stopped seeing him on my own initiative and CGIR and I never really talked about it. I told him more details at the time I posted them on my thread (Fall, 2010), but CGIR really didn't want to know much and didn't ask very many questions. I kept this information from him for 23 years.

I had a ONS with a co-worker around 1992-1993 (I remember the approximate time, but can't remember any event that would help me fix the year). At the time, I told CGIR that the co-worker had kissed me. CGIR was (seemed) pretty disinterested and told me something along the lines of "go for it." The ONS was one of the worst events of my life and I did not continue it for my own reasons. I told CGIR about it in either 2007 or 2008 (again, I can't think of an event to fix the year) because I felt our lack of progress in recovery was due to MY secret. From then until now, CGIR has not had any interest in what happened and has not wanted to ask any questions.

The outcome? Read our threads. I'm a very different person now, and not for the better. I'm constantly on guard for the next deception, and steeling myself for it through hyper-vigilance. I have been so accustomed to second-guessing CGIR's motives that I can't take anything at face value - not even his actions. (Yeah, he's "doing right," but what's he THINKING? Why's he doing it - what's in it for him? Did he learn that he can have a private life if he plays perfect MB husband at home?)

Unfortunately, I'll never know - can't/unwilling to trust him, even when he's acting trustworthy.

I still don't believe I have the whole truth and will be asking him to take a polygraph in the near future - once I decide what I really want to know. And the future of our marriage will depend on the results of a machine and a subjective human interpretation.

And even if we stay together - it's sad for CGIR. Recently, he did a really nice thing for my birthday (bought me something he saw me looking at in a store - I didn't think he was paying any attention to me at the time), but I only managed to hold on to the happiness for a few minutes before I started to think: What does he want to do that paying attention to me is worth the price? Again, what's in this gift for HIM?

And, finally, because so much time has passed, there're details I would like to know that I never will - they've been obscured or erased by time. And the details we have now (CGIR and I and just recently finished our timeline) might not even be accurate - for example, we both believed something happened in November that actually happened in September. (I found a passport stamp as evidence). Until I found this, though, I was going round and round because the timeline didn't make sense for November. September, yes; November, no. But for other events, conversations, etc., we can only rely on our increasingly blurry memories. I have to accept that he had a completely private, intimate relationship with another woman that I exists just between them. I know all affairs, regardless of when they are exposed, are like this, but having had so much information lost and unrecoverable is particularly hard for me.

Wow, a lot longer than I thought. The moral of this story, though, is, like sorrow, truth floats. No matter what your intentions, truth will eventually surface. Lying and withholding information are just not worth it, on any front.

BV

How much was the die cast when you had your affair in school?
Hindsight seems to show that your WH felt that your extra activities were ok because he wanted to experience them for himself.

Maybe he already had done it or was looking for an opportunity to do in kind.

Also being that WH was getting to date while married he felt the trade off of you getting to do the same reqired him to not ask questions and ignore what you did outside the marriage because he'd be the pot calling the kettle black.

I think your WH never wanted to leave you he just was addicted to cake eating.

As for getting you that gift he noticed you holding. I only see it as him wanting to make LB deposits. Nothing more.

Thanks for posting.

Well, anybody who's read my thread knows I am a classic example of what not to do, as a WS.

My A ended the day my H confronted me with it. I lied about the extent of it and swore on all that was holy that it was an EA only. I kept lying to him for about 4 months, while he threw himself into winning my heart back. I wanted to stay married to H, I wanted him, but I tried to lie to keep him, and to also to keep myself out of more trouble.

When he finally learned it was a PA, that I'd been lying to him all that time, I think it was the death blow for us. He stayed, and we tried, for the next year (last year). We didn't find MB until halfway into last year.

In the end my withholding of the truth has caused too much damage. Maybe even more than the A itself, although that is certainly bad enough on its own. It doesn't matter what I say to him now, he doesn't believe anything I say. He doubts our entire history together, the parentage of our children, he doubts the results of the poly, he doubts my feelings for him are real.

I love my H more than anything, but I know that because of how I betrayed him, that I'm the one who destroyed everything.

My H was a trickle truther until I did a Plan FU at about the six-month mark.

Then he finally realized I was no longer going to deal with this garbage and was absolutely fed up with his avoidance approach. We nearly bit the big time.

I feel like it affected us by dragging out our recovery timeline in many ways. We had more conversations than we needed to, and it took me longer to regain my trust for him when it came to just being able to have conversations. I always felt like I had to word things just right, and I worked way too hard to have those conversations with him. If he had just opened up and been honest right away, we could have just gone through the dirty work and gotten past that part much faster. Instead, I bogged down there because I felt like he was hiding something.

Sometimes I wonder if he was or not. Still do, for that matter, because it was so difficult, you know?


This is now going on six years post d-day for us. Still rubs me the wrong way, and at times I want to sit him down and ask him why this was so hard. But I know why. He was so embarrassed and ashamed, and so afraid that I was leaving him, that he felt any wrong response or any response that hurt me would send me out the door. Additionally, he was recovering from cancer (diagnosed right after d-day) and that made him feel so vulnerable as a man and just as a human being, that he basically lived in fear of losing any support. He was simply very afraid.

He was, indeed, broken.



SB

One of the big problems I have is knowing that I will not know everything my wife was up to over the years she was in her A. Maybe its for the better as I can draw a pretty good picture of what I DO know. I mention it on my thread that I feel I will be forever swallowing the awefulness of what she did to me and our kids. Yes, her remorse and regret and shame and all the other things she is living with make it easier, but it will never be erased.

We recently had our 15th Anniversary and it set up a few days of me giving her the cold shoulder and only after she texted me with an "i love you" did i answer with "sure your do, but for how many of the 15 years did you?". She cant win as Ive said. She apologetic and is in full just compensation mode because she knows Im still hurt.

Its a matter of swallowing the poop of her selfishness or you leave. As someone once said, belly up to dung bar my friend or let the Affair win. With some ketchup and focusing on the future, you can live with what you know about the A already.

"We recently had our 15th Anniversary and it set up a few days of me giving her the cold shoulder and only after she texted me with an "i love you" did i answer with "sure your do, but for how many of the 15 years did you?". She cant win as Ive said."


I don't how far you are from Dday but that was a poor choice of words.

And, those words are a lot different then asking questions about her affair.


"Its a matter of swallowing the poop of her selfishness or you leave. As someone once said, belly up to dung bar my friend or let the Affair win."


Not about manure. It's a matter of trade offs as with anything. You ask yourself are you better off with her or without her.


"With some ketchup and focusing on the future, you can live with what you know about the A already."


For some it has shown that they have never been able to rest without the whole story. Very hard to focus forward when there are questions of the past still wanting/needing answers.

I got to a point where I didn't need to ask more, I kinda ran out of questions I was bothered about getting an answer to.

I didn't want to make the stupidity more than it was after a while.

By continuing to talk about it, it just gave the whole thing a validity and importance it didn't deserve.

He decided to stay .......... (he was never going anywhere)

I decided to stay

So I really got to a point where I couldn't be bothered to give it any space in our relationship.

Now that doesn't mean it's gone away, but I believe things thrive when you give them attention. In my case it was also the anger and resentment that was thriving.

By putting the whole thing aside, by focussing on the good life I have now and the fact that although he's not remorseful to me, I know how hard it must be for him to know that everyone knows.

No one as far as I know has ever spoken to him about it, that must be even harder! He has to face them all, all the time.

I wanted a good marriage, that wasn't going to happen while I ranted on and on.

But making the very firm boundary in my head that if he contacts her for any reason I go. That simple. I found I could let go.

(most of the time, but I have been guilty of the odd snide comment when we argue. But it's very occasional!!)

So it makes it easier.

He is a plonker, but he is my plonker!

Im 3 months to the day after dday. My point is that Ive gotten as much as I think I want to know from WW regarding specifics.

My FWW was in long term A. Though I think she has told me a lot and I believe she thinks I know every bit of it, I have to think theres more stuff. Not earthshattering revelations, but stuff that would make me crazy. So, I decided Im done with questions and will swallow the mysteries I still have.

Im living like this: my wife regrets what she did, despite her impressive deceit I know she is thankful she got caught and its over, she had the option upon dday to do what her heart felt and she chose me, and has she is following the program as am I and we are both really loving all the good stuff that entails, I keep my AOs to zero, I keep my moods to a minimum (the anniversary cold should was a mood), I ask no questions about the A, we refer to OM and his fam very rarely, I take everyday one at time knowing that from concensus it takes a good year to turn the corner. I take "turning the corner" to mean the mental movies, images, thoughts, nightmares, and other things that shoot thru one's head perhaps end. So until then what our WWs have made us do is "swallow our questions". IMO

At a certain point, you get the picture. I guess.

It has everything to do about manure. There is a outstanding poster on here name Just Learning who, among all the brilliant things posted on my thread, wrote something that I printed and carry with me all the time for when I get into a mood where I need to destroy my wife. It goes as follows:

You dont have to forgive to remain married.
You dont have to accept what she did to remain married.
You dont have to be happy with what she did to remain married.
You dont have to remember with fondness the good times during the affair to deal with what she did and remain married.

What you HAVE to do is to DECIDE to remain married.

And, what you have to accept is she WANTS to remain married.

Its from a longer post that I will copy from my thread to here but it was the one the best things Ive read to take me off the bridge.

And you are 100% correct about tradeoffs. I forget if you have kids involved but I have 2 who have grown accustomed to me being here and because of their mother's weakness and selfishness and ambition to destroy our family almost was successful, I am set on staying and living by the stuff I wrote above.

What our wives did was like manure, it stinks. Sure life is short and one may consider leaving and dating again and your wife has given you the famous "get out of jail free card", but I have people who dont deserve to be further hurt by her.

So, while Im here, I will do all to reconcile what she did and make the best of it.

I had been afraid to ask my WH questions about his affair because I was afraid that he would not answer them at all or would answer them less than honestly. Last Wednesday I asked him questions for about 45 minutes and he answered every one of them and, I believe, he answered them honestly. Thus far this was the most healing gesture he has made for me.

The fact that I didn't have an emotional meltdown helped.

I am fairly new to this board, not giving advice, just sharing my experience.

When my husband found my cell phone record of calls back and forth to the OM he gave me an opportunity to come clean. I used what they call the "trickle truth" and it only made things worse. Because each time he forced a little out of me, he was left wondering, is that all or do I have to push to find out more? So when I finally admitted that we went as far as oral sex the thought in his mind was naturally "how much more is there she isn't telling me?"

If I would have just told him everything that night I may have been able to regain some trust and respect.

Briliance, no JL is just always lucky when he post's here.