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Caracal Offline OP
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Hi all,

I am trying hard to follow all of the vets and the Harley advice. And it seems that this all points to the BW taking a step back rather then chasing the WH. Can I ask why?

My problem with this is that without me chasing or initiating contact, WH is simply avoiding me, likely I trigger his guilt (or he is just too happy with OW cry) And then without contact I am not doing much of a Plan A.

Please share your knowledge!


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
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Good question. My WH is the one who always, in our entire marriage wants to be 'chased', and that is what the OWs did too. I guess if they never 'learn' to fight for it, they never actually get it and still to be served and chances are they keep on the wrong track?


Me BW (37)
WH (37)
DD1 6 yrs DD2 2 yr

A man who abandons his wife and children because of his infidelity is no price. I can do better then that, I deserve better then that.

The difficulties and struggles of today are but the price we must pay for the accomplishments and victories of tomorrow

Men must be honest with themselves before they can be honest with others. A man who is not honest with himself presents a hopeless case
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Caracal Offline OP
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Mmmm, I can see your point, but in my case my WH was the one who "wooed" me, the romantic type with the flowers, gifts, etc. Admittedly during marriage this became less often, though I still got romantic texts and the occasional note left for me. I wonder if sometimes WH's want BW to chase, to show their interest? Any FWH's out there who can give advice?

I still don't really understand the Harley's advice for BW to simply sit back when OW is most certainly pursuing her target. Please help me get my head around this!


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
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This was something I thought about this morning. The A has to self destruct and destroy all love bank deposits, otherwise there will be lingering long time feeling which may or may not resurface with certain trigger?

These are just my thoughts and ponderings.


Me BW (37)
WH (37)
DD1 6 yrs DD2 2 yr

A man who abandons his wife and children because of his infidelity is no price. I can do better then that, I deserve better then that.

The difficulties and struggles of today are but the price we must pay for the accomplishments and victories of tomorrow

Men must be honest with themselves before they can be honest with others. A man who is not honest with himself presents a hopeless case
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Caracal Offline OP
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I can see that, and whoever said patience is a virtue, I suspect did not have to sit twiddling his / her thumbs whilst waiting for an A to end! I can definitely see why a BH should chase a WW, the knight in shining armour thing. But I also want to do that for my WH, because I can see in some ways he is the one who is "lost" and disconnecting himself from those who love him. But maybe that is it, maybe a WH does not want to feel his BW is coming to his rescue, I know my WH likes to be masculine and would not want me to be his knight in shining armour. Maybe I have just answered my own question??? Thanks for letting me ramble, it helps!


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
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Originally Posted by Caracal
Hi all,

I am trying hard to follow all of the vets and the Harley advice. And it seems that this all points to the BW taking a step back rather then chasing the WH. Can I ask why?

Because it is a TURN OFF. It turns them off. It turns them off which leaves the BW the worse for wear.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I have never known that tactic to do anything but BACKFIRE on every BW who tried it. I have NEVER seen chasing a WH work for a BW. But I have seen many, many devastated, disappointed BWs, though, when they were rejected again and again.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Caracal, your thread title caught my eye. I haven't followed the 17 pages of your main thread too closely, so I don't presume to be up to speed on where you stand, but I gather from your comments here + your sig line that you're living oceans apart, and that your WH is still in contact with OW. (My apologies if I've gotten any of that incorrectly.)

In skimming your other thread, I noticed some comments that seem to be generally along lines of 'Men don't like being chased.'

I want to toss out a caveat here. While that advice may be pertinent in specific circumstances -- and indeed may be very pertinent to your case, for all I know -- as a generalization, it has its limits.

IMO, men with narcissistic streaks (and I'm using that term in a layman's way, not speaking of clinical NPD, as I'm certainly not a psychologist), whose top emotional needs include admiration/attention/affection, will often find pursuit from women to be an important part of any romantic relationship -- and not only the formation of the relationship, but also the maintenance of the relationship.

That doesn't mean that it needs to be a one-sided pursuit, or that the man might not still do the majority of the pursuing in the relationship; but for men in this category, and whose spouses/partners are not making much obvious effort to "pursue" them, this can be perceived as a sign of ambivalence or lack of interest on the woman's part, and that can make it easier for such a man to see other grass as greener.

Now, I have no idea whether this applies in your husband's case. (I gather that he has not been on-board with recovery, much less attempted to assess, or allow you to assess, his emotional needs, since it became clear that there was/is an affair.) And even if it does apply, I've no idea how one might successfully apply that from a separate continent. Trying to out-pursue an OW from so far away may be doomed to failure, and so you'd come off as the weaker pursuer, which may be a turn-off as others have noted. So I am not attempting to offer any advice here as to what you should do, only to caution against drawing any blanket conclusion that 'Men don't like to be pursued', because as a man, I can tell you that it ain't necessarily so.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Just so you guys know, it is Dr Harley who says that it is not effective for a BW to chase a WH. He has commented on this several times in his show.

Of course, Caracal might be the lone exception. Caracal, why not email him and ask him yourself? You can email the show and he can either answer your question on the show or talk to you personally by having you call in. Go to this link and get instructions on how to call in: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=12


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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My WH had family commitment #1 and he added that including him, and admiration as #4. And that is EXACTLY what OW1&2 did to him, pursue relentlessly and stroke his ego to the point of making me want to GAG.


Me BW (37)
WH (37)
DD1 6 yrs DD2 2 yr

A man who abandons his wife and children because of his infidelity is no price. I can do better then that, I deserve better then that.

The difficulties and struggles of today are but the price we must pay for the accomplishments and victories of tomorrow

Men must be honest with themselves before they can be honest with others. A man who is not honest with himself presents a hopeless case
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Do you think that you chasing him would be an effective way to get him back?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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hbd Offline
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I have wondered about this as well.

My H has admiration and affection in his top five needs too (it's SF first, then admiration, then affection). I had ALWAYS played "hard to get" with my H. The result was that he cheated on me twice.

I've now switched to doing the chasing and he says he likes this much better. He says he feels loved now, but didn't before. So, IMO men who have admiration and affection in their top 5 needs need some chasing. This would be the only exception though.


AKA: hurtagainbydavid, hurtingstill
Me: BW/WW 36
Him: WH 37 (2time2timer)
DD x 2: 8 and 5
H's 1st affair D-day: 10/2001
H's 2nd affair D-day: 1/16/11
My threesome w/H and OM: 7/21/11

Trying to fix the mess I helped make.
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But, those of y'all who are 'chasing' your FWHs are in a different situation - you're not trying to win back you WH by chasing him.


Me: 30
Him: 39
Together 5 years
Married the very best man in the world 04/06/2013 after being common law for too long. I'm a lucky woman.
7 Cats - Viscount Ashley of Leftfield, Pawkie Petunia, The Timinator, Leo the Lionheart, Fruit Snack, Cloud, and Barret
And our very lucky pony, Starbucks
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Originally Posted by HopefulNC
But, those of y'all who are 'chasing' your FWHs are in a different situation - you're not trying to win back you WH by chasing him.

So the "no chasing" rule only applies to active WHs then?


AKA: hurtagainbydavid, hurtingstill
Me: BW/WW 36
Him: WH 37 (2time2timer)
DD x 2: 8 and 5
H's 1st affair D-day: 10/2001
H's 2nd affair D-day: 1/16/11
My threesome w/H and OM: 7/21/11

Trying to fix the mess I helped make.
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hfd, I disagree. Most men do have admiration as one of their top 5 emotional needs. And they don't like being chased. Keep in mind that Dr Harley has been doing this for a week or two and this comes from him.

You are in an entirely different situation from Caracal. Her H is in an active affair

And I hardly think that not chasing your H led to his affairs. Your H had his affairs because he has poor boundaries with women. Perhaps what he does like is your show of enthusiasm. That is very different from chasing. My H, for example, does not like being chased, but he does LOVE a show of enthusiasm.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by hbd
Originally Posted by HopefulNC
But, those of y'all who are 'chasing' your FWHs are in a different situation - you're not trying to win back you WH by chasing him.

So the "no chasing" rule only applies to active WHs then?

The discussion is about active waywards.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I think a BW can show love and admiration without "chasing" him. I think that men DO need to know that their wives desire them, admire and love them; but, from what I often see, chasing usually comes across as being clingy and needy, which seems to be the turn-off for men.

I think that chasing a WH fuels the WH's attitude of entitlement. Consequently, an entitled WH thinks that he can keep right on having his affair because he is sure that his BW will never leave him...in short, having his cake and eating it, too.

A BW can show love, desire, and admiration for her WH while still taking care of herself and her children...without showing the desperation that "chasing" conveys.

I think the desperation is the turnoff.

I just thought of something my mother used to say, and I've also heard it elsewhere: "A woman should chase a man until HE catches HER."

Basically, that means being the woman he desires above all others, but make him work for her.


"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
hfd, I disagree. Most men do have admiration as one of their top 5 emotional needs.

Yes, but how many have affection in their top 5? That is rare. I think it's the combination of both the admiration need AND the affection need that is the exception. There aren't many men out there with this combination though.


AKA: hurtagainbydavid, hurtingstill
Me: BW/WW 36
Him: WH 37 (2time2timer)
DD x 2: 8 and 5
H's 1st affair D-day: 10/2001
H's 2nd affair D-day: 1/16/11
My threesome w/H and OM: 7/21/11

Trying to fix the mess I helped make.
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Originally Posted by hbd
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
hfd, I disagree. Most men do have admiration as one of their top 5 emotional needs.

Yes, but how many have affection in their top 5? That is rare. I think it's the combination of both the admiration need AND the affection need that is the exception. There aren't many men out there with this combination though.

Affection has nothing to do with being chased though. And no, Dr Harley has never said that men who have the top needs of affection and admiration like being chased. I am not following your logic on that one.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I think the real turnoff is when the pursue starts projecting themselves as weak or needy.

Men (and women for that matter) mostly enjoy the attention and admiration from someone who projects themselves as strong, knows what they want, and not shy to put forth some effort to get it. This is very affirming.

The problem is that because of past history and the pain and emotional anguish, not to mention the WS's foggy view of the relationship, it is darn near impossible for a BS to do the pursuing without being perceived as needy, which they almost always are due to the circumstances of the wayward's affair.

I know it's not Marriage Builders, but the "180 Plan" is based on showing your wayward spouse the strong, independent, and fun person you were when they fell in love with you, pretty much the opposite of "needy".

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