So what is the rate of recidivism among serial cheaters? After 34 years of marriage, 2 PAs and 2 EAs, I'm wondering if permanent change in my WH's behavior is realistic or if I'm wasting my time.

How did your H's affairs start? (online, coworkers, etc?) Did he ever implement EPs? What are they?

Dr Harley basically says you need to look at the conditions that led to the affair and eliminate them.

So my H is basically a serial cheater. His affairs started by flirting with coworkers. We found MB after the first two and even though he promised he wouldn't do it anymore, coached with Steve and wrote out an extensive EP plan, he still did it ~ so Dr Harley told me to take the next steps since he has no self-control, he basically need to change his profession (he has long hours with female employees in a situation where close relationships are more likely to occur) and not have a cell phone, email, etc to take away the conditions that have led to his affairs.

Does that make sense?

Susie Q,

Thanks. Three of my WH's affairs have been with co-workers. My WH also has long hours with female employees who look up to him and give him all the admiration he could ever need. I do not think he will leave his profession before he retires. He also doesn't see that he has poor boundaries! My IT has advised me to bail, but our MFT is encouraging us to keep working.

WH says he loves me, but he also says repeatedly that I want a different man. I'm beginning to agree with him, even though I do still love him.

makes me want to throw up that my H has had more. but his were after work events with strangers basically (other than one)- not work related at all, super secret life for him, so no more outside of work activities for him unless i am there.

you H must make the change to his behavior!

big list of EP's for him. FULL FULL transparency, and a complete ownership of the lack of boundries and understanding on how this go to be from now on, my limits are fully outline and there are no second chances, he had used them all up.

"WH says he loves me, but he also says repeatedly that I want a different man. I'm beginning to agree with him, even though I do still love him."


this statement from him sounds fishy to me. like he still wants it his way and you are the problem. he not willing to own up to his faults and failures. just my opinion.

do you have EP in place?

Your husband absolutely CAN CHANGE if he wants to. What it takes is a radical change in his environment and setting up his life in a way that he CAN'T possibly conduct a secret second life. For example, his life would have to become completely transparent, no more overnight travel, opposite sex friendships, facebook pages, etc. If he can't be trusted at work, then you might consider buying a business and working together. It can be done if you arrange your lives in a way that he doesn't have an opportunity to cheat.

RAther than relying on trust, change the conditions that led to his affairs.

He is gaslighting you. My H did this too. What he really means is he is unwilling to change his behavior because he cares more about getting his fix through other women than protecting you and the M from another affair.

Again, he is gaslighting you and trying to get you to back down from any attempts to change his behavior.

I highly recommend you get him in for coaching with Steve and if he refuses to do so, well, that is something I would be unwilling to deal with because unless he changes something he will be having another affair.

"'WH says he loves me, but he also says repeatedly that I want a different man. I'm beginning to agree with him, even though I do still love him.'


this statement from him sounds fishy to me. like he still wants it his way and you are the problem. he not willing to own up to his faults and failures. just my opinion."

I agree, Chick. What a lazy and mean response. Pretty passive-agressive thing to say. So, he's saying "Freefall, I am not willing to make any changes to myself for you and for the sake of our marriage, cuz you want me to be someone that I am not." Translation? "Don't wanna, and you can't make me."

What does he say about EPs?

No, you want the same man but with sane boundaries that will stop abusing you. He is the wifebeater who refuses to stop and "says repeatedly that I want a different man." Yes, the wife being beat up does want a man who won't beat her.

I would give him a list of extraordinary precautions and tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage. Otherwise, I am getting divorced." And if he doesn't agree, you have lost nothing except a life of hell and are better off without him.

Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a very abusive marriage.

Just change the context and envision a wife beater or a rapist saying this to his wife. "I love you but I think you want a different man" when she asks him to stop beating her to a pulp.

Unfortunately, I think you're right, Surfer. That's exactly what he's saying "can't change, don't want to change." Thanks for the painful, bur needed, reality check.

We've talked about EPs, but again, he doesn't think he has a problem with boundaries. Yesterday he actually said to me "I didn't have an affair with her. . . or her. . .lots of women I come into close contact with but don't have affairs with." Some consolation.

I have met with an attorney to discuss my options. Situation became suddenly more complicated by my need for health care. I have a number of major health issues and have been getting them all checked out before I file for separation or divorce, while I'm still fully covered under WH's insurance. Just found out yesterday that my mechanical aortic valve isn't functioning well and future surgery is likely. Tests and treatment for now, but surgery is probably ahead of me 3-4 years from now, during a period when I won't be covered by cobra or medicare. Insurance is likely to be very expensive for me because of my health history. I need to try and get an idea of exactly HOW expensive it is likely to be so that I can be sure that my settlement will cover it.


check.

freefall, you might have shot at getting him to change his behavior by moving to Plan B, you can stay in Plan B for a while and you wouldn't have to D or lose your insurance. Have you thought about that?

freefall, I would, therefore, file for separation, get legal protection, and get him out of your home. He is so abusive that he will tear down your emotional and physical health.

He is what Dr Harley calls a "freeloader":

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

It's sad, but Melody is so right. It's abusive. The fact that HE doesn't think he has a problem with boundaries...well, that speaks volumes.

I can't even to begin to address the legalities and insurance, but (not meaning to cast that aside at all), you've got nothing to lose here. Do you see that? As Mel said, list your conditions and be done with them. It's all in or all out. He's never going to make this decision to grow up and man up unless you take action. Why would he? Got it pretty good with this gaslighting (see SusieQ), right?

here

I have a call into my attorney about proceeding with legal separation. I agree that it's the best option at this point.
Sad day for me.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{freefall}}}}}}}}}}}}

I agree it is a sad day, but your future would be even sadder if you didn't do something. While this might be a hard time for you now, it won't be hard in the future. If you go into Plan B, you will feel much better in no time. Living under these conditions is dreadful for your health. I know how terrible stress can be for women our age.