Because you are letting the thoughts linger too long, which is causing the old "fantasy" feelings to come back. Going forward, as soon as a thought of OM pops into your mind, redirect your mind to happy thoughts and memories of your BH.

Your H's AO's are a separate issue that has nothing to do with your memory/trigger issues. One has nothing to do with the other. You will need to work with your H on his anger issues. The best thing you can do is kindly be honest and communicate with him.

AGree, something has triggered the fog again here. And along with the fog comes the demonization of her husband. Is there something you need to tell us, wanthealing? Because I don't believe you haven't been in some kind of contact.

Have you ever read the chapter on Angry Outbursts in Dr. Harley's book, Love Busters?

Looking for "the root of the anger" is a complete waste of time. Your husband needs to withdraw from the anger addiction / habit the same way you need to withdraw from the addiction / habit of dwelling on the POSOM skirt-chasing liar. In both cases, the solution does not involve endless hunting for the "root" of the problem, and engaging in such a hunt is just a way to continue to dwell on the problem for YEARS and make it WORSE.

There are effective anger-management therapies out there and there are ineffective anger-management therapies. Get serious and start listening to what Dr. Harley has to say about it so you can get started learning to tell which is which.

wanthealing, you, and only you, own the responsibility for controlling your thoughts. Make no mistake about it, it is a choice.

My M may not survive, but I've learned something important (well, several things, actually, but I'll point out one for now!) - unmet ENs do not give you the right to have those ENs met elsewhere. Even if that is just in your head. And to me, that sounds exactly like what you're doing. You're allowing OM to meet your needs in a fantasy world in your mind, and it's so inherently dangerous.

Unmet ENs do not cause a spouse to have an A. I'm having little to none of my intimate ENs met now by my BH. The choice is how I decide to deal with it. I can consciously choose to protect my soft underbelly, as it were, by recognizing the areas where I am weak and putting in place EPs, and EPs include controlling the thoughts on which you choose to dwell.

Those memories of the OM aren't "love." What love is, is your BH choosing to remain married to you, to raise your OC as his own. From where I sit, as someone who most likely has lost everything because of my own weakness and foolishness, to me forgiveness and a second chance - especially as none of that is owed to us, it's a gift freely given - is the truest expression of love there is.

Dealing with your BH's LBs is a completely separate issue. Maybe a call-in to the radio show would be helpful - I know as a FWW myself I struggle with how to approach the subject of LBs with my own BH, especially as he is not currently invested in marital recovery.

Dr. Harley addresses angry outbursts on his FREE online radio show very frequently. Odds are that if you listen to his show for only a week, you'll hear him discuss angry outbursts. Try searching through the show archives and listening to a few shows about anger. You should not be dredging up horrible memories of the past for eight years if eliminating angry outbursts is your goal.

By the way, these are not rhetorical questions.

Well, after reading all of this and getting a reality check, I talked to BH about everything to see what he thought. He wasn't suprised, since he knows how his AOs can be. I don't know what the trigger is, since there truly has been NC with OM. I for sure thought that following through with that would eliminate all old feelings. The only tie I can see is that when a severe AO happens, my thoughts turn to OM. When there's no AOs we are happy and in love and enjoying life and great. I don't know how it can be that one AO ruins all of that.

Mel, I never said my BH was "stuck"--I said that OM is stuck in my head and I don't know why; I want him out. And I'm not blaming BH for my problem, but I am saying that love busting seems to be a trigger. I need help, which is why I decided to post. I need to learn now to control my own thoughts better and not be so affected by AOs.

As for whether or not OM loved me, I don't really care if he did or didn't. It's a moot point. I don't want to be with him; I simply want to keep him out of my thoughts for good and forever.

Thanks, markos. We have Surviving an Affair and Love Busters books, but we don't do the worksheets. That's something I am going to start working on since I think it will help keep us both accountable. We need to make time for that, which we never seem able to do. BH knows AOs are a huge LB, but it's not like he intentionally has an AO. It just happens. Then he's sorry after the fact. I just want us to both get to the point where we're not apologizing for hurting each other after the fact, but that we're not doing the LB at all.

This is an interesting quote. I hope the vets can shed some light on this as well. I am a BS, but I can remember several years ago dreaming of a different life with my WH. I realized the only EN he was meeting for me for many years was the FC EN as the father of my children. THis was long before he had his affair.

I never cheated on my husband, but I did have thoughts about divorce and finding a new husband. It consumed me for several years when I longed to be loved and cared for by my husband. Looking back I can see my reality was turning to fantasy. I became pregnant with my second child and realized I had to come back to reality and learn to love my husband. That pretty much snapped me out of fantizing about a life without my husband and with someone new.

I can see how your husband's AOs can trigger this fantasy of what life might be like with the father of your baby. You are likely setting yourself up for another affair since he is love busting and not meeting your needs I would be concerned for your marriage today.

I strongly recommend having your husband come to the boards to discuss a plan for him to stop Lovebusting. He is draining your love bank.

Today my WH is leaving me for his OW and I now have four small children. Looking back at the timeframe when I wanted to leave him I can see how we still failed to meet each other's ENs. We have limped along for the past five years and today it is the worse case scenario. I wouldn't want this for you, your husband, or your child.

I hope you fix this today - your thoughts for OM will never come to fruition because they are built on a fantasy. I recommend you turn your concerns towards your husband and communicate with him on meeting your ENs.

Tough~

It's not just a trigger. It's an excuse. Stop making excuses for yourself and redirect every OM thought when they pop into your head. At first, you will need to purposely and thoughtfully redirect your thoughts. But, after doing it for long enough, you will automatically do this without even thinking about it (provided you stand by NC).

To help your H with his LBs, do the love busters questionaire together ASAP. You can find them in the "Questionaires" link. You may find that you are doing some LBs of your own that are leading to his AOs. While you are at it, do the emotional needs queationaire too.

Um, it's been less than a year.

What's the trigger?

Hmmm... you have thoughts of the OM.

I'm pretty sure that less than a year later, your H still has thoughts of you boffing the OM.

That's a pretty strong dang trigger.

Until recovery is further along, and if you are not adhering to EP's, and you are not adhering to the four rules for marital recovery being triggered is not difficult.

Read. The. Link.

Are you adhering to EP's? Have you even given your husband a list of your EPs?

Are you following the four rules for marital recovery?

*edit*

This will go along his timeline... when he is ready the "old feelings" will fade. Not disappear, just fade and become less prominent and important.

When I said "stuck" I was referring to your comment here, which showed a distinct lack of empathy:


A big part of the problem is that your H is grieving what has been done to him and you seem to not be aware of the trauma inflicted on him.



Apparently you do care if the OM "lurved" you because you said above that you fantasize about it. It is not a moot point at all if you are fantastizing about a "lurve" that was not really love at all. You have clearly romanticized the affair in your mind, which is a big part of the problem.

If you replaced your fantasies about the OM loving you - which he didn't - with reality you could retrain your brain to think more appropriately. But since you are entertaining a fantasy love affair, it is the first place you go to under pressure. But it is all a fantasy.

I still think there is much more here that is keeping you this fogged out. This is not usual unless there has been some type of contact.

An example might help, wanthealing.

Can you give an example of what words your h's last AO consisted of what and what thought of the OM did that trigger? Was the trigger instant or did time elapse?

I am a bit puzzled as to how your h's anger can remind you of an OM. Doesnt seem to be a direct link there really.

If there is no contact is there any THING in the house or your life which triggers memories of the OM?

Mementos, a dress he liked, a meeting place you drive past - anything at all?

Can you present the following plan to him:

The two of you each read through the Angry Outbursts chapter of Love Busters, each of you highlights, in a different color, sentences that you would like the other to read, and then going forward once a week you each send each other a filled out copy of the angry outburst worksheet?

The AO does not make you think of OM. That is a choice that you make. You can choose to do something different.

I mean, an angry outburst is devastating to a marriage. Why make it WORSE by taking another action that is devastating to your marriage - dwelling on an affair? Is it that after your husband cuts off one of your limbs, figuratively speaking, by his angry outbursts, you then think it would be a good idea to go cut off another one of your limbs? Because that is essentially what you are doing.

wanthealing, if you get a chance can you email me at the addy in my profile?

Hmm, well, I'm starting to feel the fog lifting after reading through all of this. And BH has been a great listener as I've had him read through it.

First of all, I do not think we're truly meeting Dr. H's rules for recovery. The honesty part is probably the only one we are meeting, but when honesty isn't coupled with care, it seems to cause more fights than not. I want to get back to MB principles that helped us so many months ago yet have somehow gotten put on the back burner.

As for Mel's question about trigger of why OM still lingers in my head, I asked BH what he thought. He thinks OC is the reason--that I see OC and remember OM. I don't think that's the case, since when I see OC (which is 24/7) I don't think of OM, I think of everything else going on. Thoughts of OM ONLY happen when BH has an AO. When there's no AO, there's no thoughts of OM.

Indie asked for an example, so here's one that happened yesterday. The thoughts result during the AO, not really after. For example, BH gets angry about the car not running right, yells about me not making enough money to buy a new car, demands that I fix it, then I think, "If I was with OM I wouldn't have to work half as much as I do, and OM wouldn't yell at me for this." Then I feel guilty for thinking it, but I can't take back the thought. Eventually the thoughts pass once things cool down and we make up, but I don't want the thoughts in the first place...especially when AOs happen on a daily basis.

I know there is no connection except that OM made me feel fake loved and AOs are a huge huge huge love buster for me. BH knows this and understands it, because he carries his own guilt about the physical violence years ago, which personally I think is the main reason he stayed in the M despite the OC. He felt guilt about his abuse, I felt guilt about my A--as if our wrongs cancelled each other out. That's beside the point, other than that BH thinks that's why the AOs have such an impact on me.

Needless to say, I don't want AOs to be an excuse for my wrongs. You are right that I need to cut it out, and I'm glad I posted because I feel like I got the reality check I needed so that I can re-focus my thoughts. But I really think BH and I in addition to working on the rules for surviving an affair and doing the worksheets need to start rebuilding good memories together so that the contrast effect to the A can be overcome. It's all easy in theory, but when it comes time to living it out, it can be so tough to apply on a daily basis. But I do know it works, because it worked before for us; when we stopped working at it things went downhill. That's when I panic and have to start a thread, because I know I need help to get back on track.

Let us crack open the nutshell.

How old are you, BH, OM?
How long have you been married?
How has NC been going?

I don't think it is the OC either. But neither do I think it is the AO's. The AO's would cause a wedge between you and your H, but they could not be a trigger that would trigger feelings for the OM. And they sure couldn't create the FOG, which is very prevalent in your posts with the pig pen romantization. That is like me saying my H's angry outbursts make me drunk again. The only thing that can make me drunk is an actual drink or perhaps hanging out in the bar again.

See, when a wayward withdraws from the drug, they don't romanticize the dope anymore. For example, a heroin freak will love and romanticize smack when he is HIGH. But when the high wears off, he sees himself with shocking clarity and sees how putrid and disgusting he looks. You are still high. And his AO's are not an explanation.

One more thing in regards to your point, Mel, about BH's trauma from the A. Perhaps a little history is in order to explain this. The AOs have nothing to do with A. It's always about little unimportant things (at least unimportant to me, but to BH they are obviously very important, so I try to respect that). My BH has OCD and anxiety disorder, which he was diagnosed with before we got married, and the anxiety is what made him get violent--but that's all been worked through. BH got counseling years ago, but then quit because it was $$.

Since the A we have gotten couple's counseling, but nothing regular, since BH felt totally fine about our relationship (though I obviously wasn't fine with resuming our old ways, which was when I found MB). He was more concerned about keeping OC from OM than the A, which may sound odd, but as I said before, he felt my A was justified (which I know it wasn't). It was when I exposed my A that he exposed his porn addiction and said that he couldn't judge me for something he was doing in secret too. Since then, OC custody was his primary concern, not the A. We've now worked that out and BH is generally happy, until a pet peeve happens, which is when things are blown out of control. That's when I shut down toward him, which I don't want to do anymore. I need to learn how to communicate better with him during AOs so that I don't go into my own world anymore. I guess that's what I also need to focus on too--diffusing rather than "escaping." The one plus side to the AOs is the making up, which we do very well together. Though I think we could still make up just as well without having the AOs in the first place.

Mel, then let me ask you something. Why is it that many of the others in my situation (with an OC from OM) say they "still think of OM"--some say they do this every day...even with strict NC? I've read several responses from fellow forumers who say that even years after A with NC they still think of OM. So what is the trigger then? Is that what my trigger is? Am I doomed to that fate?