Hello, MB.

I want to develop new (good) habits to show DH that I am committed to him. I am looking for a few other people who have developed/or are developing good habits to (possibly) help keep me on track. I know the responsibility is mine...but I am trying to keep good company.

In the past couple of years, it seems I have been on a LB-ing mission. I don't know if I was restless or bored...but a lot of the time, I tried to push DH away. In response to my poor behavior, DH reacted by doing...Plan A. (He does not believe in MB or taking advice from people so he will avoid reading any of these books, visiting this website, etc.) Last night, we were having another of those negative talks that I keep starting and DH said, "Why don't you just come out and say it. If it wasn't for the kids, you wouldn't be here. And it shows." He, also said, "Just imagine what I go through everyday."

He should not have to feel that way.

A little history : I was here some time ago in a fogged out state. DH and I have been together over 13 years and we have 2 lovely young children. I have read a lot of the website, HNHN. I did get DH to go through the EN Questionnaire for 5 minutes. I know all of his ENs and he says that I am meeting them...and that we have the "perfect marriage". He has no problems with me and I have all the problems (he says).

- Does anyone know when Dr. Harley would recommend individual counseling versus marriage counseling?
- Does it make sense to pursue resolving individual problems (first)? (i.e. How can you help your partnership if you can't even help yourself?)

I believe that-- now that we are well-settled down into the marriage-- I feel uncomfortable being SO "settled". There's not enough excitement or energy to it...just the day-to-day of being married and parents and keeping up a home.

- Does anyone know if...Dr. Harley ever advises a person that she should have never gotten married in the first place?
- Does Dr. Harley believe that some people are simply not "marriage material"?

My goal: I am hoping that I can fix my behavior, my mindset, and pour the right kind of energy into this marriage...stop LB-ing...I don't think anyone should have to feel the way my DH describes feeling. But I have to, also, not feel bored. I have to take the first steps. I have to prove to him that I can be much better...and I am sure he would get on board. I think he'd even suffer through some of the relationship books (or "woman stuff") if my behavior transforms. Thanks for any suggestions.

You say you were here before 'fogged out'. Did you have an affair? Do you have an old user name where we could see your story?

I just posted on my thread about new energy to the marriage: PLAY TOGETHER. HHH also posted there with a link to an article about facing challenges together, as that is what my H and I have been doing, working as a team to learn and grow in a very fun playtime recreational activity. Ours happens to be finally pulling the trigger on buying a boat; we have a TON to learn and it has been awesome.

Fast track for you, imo, would be to find a recreational activity that puts you and your husband on a team working together toward a common goal. Find one you both enjoy a lot, but that neither of you is better at than the other. Something new, perhaps. There's a quick Recreational Companionship Inventory here listed under the Questionnaires tab. Ya'll fill it out, or if your H just won't do that, get him into a conversation about stuff he's always wanted to try but hasn't; if something piques your interest, make it happen. Skydiving, kayaking, swing dancing, deep sea fishing, engine building, whatever 'lifts your skirts and curls your toes'.

You can choose to stop LBing, so in immediate order, just choose that. But you can alleviate your boredom by involving your H in adventures that you agree to go on.

What you have described here is someone who has fallen out of love. You have fallen out of love with your husband because you don't do the things necessary to maintain romantic love. In order to fall in love, a couple needs to spend 20+ hours per week meeting the top 4 INTIMATE emotonal needs of affection, conversation, rec companionship and sexual fulfillment. Without lovebusters, of course.

If you want to transform your marriage, that is where I would start. If you do this, you will start noticing a dramatic difference in about 6-8 weeks. It does not take long. [follow the program in Fall in Love, Stay in Love]

If you do consider counseling, I would go for marriage counseling with the Harleys. The issue is your marriage and that is what needs to be addressed. You should know the Harleys do not counsel couples in crisis together anyway. They would split your hour on the phone. Others here have gone through the Marriage Builders course, which is really your fastest horse, because you get an assigned marriage coach that guides your lessons on a weekly basis and you have daily access to Dr Harley.

Thank you for your responses.

Yesterday, I came directly home after work and went right to work trying to earn some points in the bank. Laundry done. House clean. Music playing. Dinner ready (with salad and dessert). [I NEVER make dessert.] And a nice outfit DH would like. [It was like the Man's Fantasy in the chapter on Domestic Support in HNHN.] It worked! DH was VERY pleased and complimentary. (Now, of course, I can't keep that up every single day...but I am not opposed to making the "Man's Fantasy" deposit in the love bank a couple times a week.)

(BTW: I was WAY too busy to be "bored".)

CWMI and ML, so it seems that I should focus on recreational companionship and UA. I will check out the Recreational Companionship Tab and try to select something we can spend ample time doing. Actually, when we have done recreational activities together (which is rarely), we have a fantastic time. This would cover the UA...which we definitely need. Of the top 4 ENs you listed, ML, the one we spend the least time investing in is the RC.


Yes, I felt the classic ILYBNILWY; I did not say that to DH (just felt it). I doubted whether I should have married, I acted out in different ways...and, yes, CWMI, I failed to keep the necessary boundaries with someone. Now, thankfully, it went no further than an infatuation on my part. But, I wrongfully and continuously fed that fantasy in my mind. I am sorry for the time and energy I invested in that. I am choosing to put that behind me; I don't even want to think about it (since "thinking about it" is what started the trouble to begin with).


I am a little nervous about the concept of trying to fall back in love with DH. I didn't have to try when I fell in love with him the first time. But maybe it can work. Yesterday was great. I am going aim for the 6 - 8 week plan to transform my marriage. I am excited about it.


Thank you for the direction. I will check out the RC Questionnaire.

Hearfelt1,

Yes, I felt the classic ILYBNILWY; ..., I failed to keep the necessary boundaries with someone. Now, thankfully, it went no further than an infatuation on my part.

It sounds like you were emotionally attached to this person, it is no wonder you have difficulties feeling anything for your H. Do you still work or have contact with that person.

I am choosing to put that behind me; I don't even want to think about it

Again, if you are still in contact with that person it might be tough.

God Bless
Gamma

Well yes, actually you did. NO ONE could fall in love if they spent 15 minutes together and never met each other emotional needs. You just stopped doing the things that created romantic love and you...........fell out of love! If you are a typical spouse you are spending nowhere enough time together to fall in love. Many married couples might spend 15 minutes together meeting each other emotional needs. If even that. And then wonder why they fall out of love.


I figured there was a man in the woodpile. Who is the man? What happened? Did you have an affair? Do you still see him? Are you chasing this dude?

And have you been honest with your H about it? Your feelings for this man are the REASON WHY you have fallen out of love with your husband. This OM has a great deal to do with the feelings you have about your husband.

Have you told your husband about your inappropriate relationship with another man?

This WAS a MAJOR contributor to the current state of your marriage
you failed to maintain the safety of your marriage, and it us your husband who has paid the price for your indescretionindescretion

I did not have an affair though I was on the brink of an affair similar to N.S. in the Q&A Column posting: Escaping the Jaws of Infidelity. The infatuation had gone on for over 2 years (at this point). I have not talked to this man about any feelings that I have for him. He has a woman and is trying to make his relationship work. He is a friend of our family; I would see him when he came to our home.




I have told my husband about my feelings for him. My husband is neither interested nor concerned.

When this infatuation began, the man and I were just "playing" around. We would challenge each other, debate, conversate, enjoy each other's company (all in DH's presence) so it just seemed like harmless fun and completely acceptable. He would be the first to comment on my FB pictures so I felt I could send him a message. He'd respond. We wrote emails on different topics. A lot of little flirtations. ...until it wasn't "harmless" anymore. I know the exact date that something changed for me. That's the gist of the story.

I became so concerned about the things I was feeling and thinking that I started looking for help. I bought a lot of books; I found this site. I read up on the MB principles. It all makes sense to me. I never even heard of EA or acknowledged ENs before I started this research. I wanted to be "over" this infatuation immediately: I needed a quick fix. It wasn't so easy.

Something about the idea of trying to fall in love with DH makes me nervous, too. It's just that: if I fail (to fall in love again), that means my entire life is going to change and the lives of my children.

But DH and I had UA time last night (as well) and I feel that I am on the right path. I noticed something last night, though: DH behavior is going to remain the same. DH already says that I meet his needs, that he is in love with me, and that I am the one with the "problems". I am going to have to fall in love all over again even though there is obviously something about his current behavior that is not meeting some of my needs.

At this point, I was going to focus on recreational companionship. I should focus on one thing at a time, right?

DH and I did not have time to go through the recreational questionnaire yesterday. (We went on a date.) I am going to start making some suggestions to him today about activities that we can begin to try out together. What do you think?

heartfelt, your H needs to read your thread so he understands how dangerous this man is to your marriage. If he doesn't know that he has just escaped the jaws of infidelity, that needs to change. And you both need to quietly step away from the OM and cut him out of your life. Have you removed him your facebook? Removed him in every way from your lives? Because if you don't, your efforts with your husband won't help much because of the contrast effect. Radical honesty with your husband has to be the first step, though.


Thats a curious statement. I don't understand why you say your life and the life of your children is going to change if you can't though. Why? Do you already have a plan in place to leave your husband for this OM? Yes you will fall in love again if you this program correctly, but you are going to have to be honest with your husband and remove this OM.

I can confidently say that DH was fully aware of my feelings for OM. I have completed this exposure to DH: the radical honesty.
This confession occurred quite some time ago. We do not speak of this anymore.

The LB-ing that I have been doing amounts to me: constantly complaining about how dissatified I am, how I just want to run off, being irritable (seemingly out of nowhere), etc. So while we don't speak of my "infatuation" anymore directly, I am aware that some of my LB-ing behavior may be attributed to those feelings.


I shut down my FB, we do not communicate via email anymore, and we hardly ever cross paths. I believe that we are on the road to removing him from my life (and vice versa). (I believe that) just as much as I need him out of my life for my relationship, he needs me out of his life for his new relationship. But he is DH's friend. DH has refused to allow my "feelings" to interfere with his friendship.

I understand the concept of NC for life. A year ago, I wanted to do NC for life and my chest hurt (thinking about it). Now I believe I could manage it fine if DH would just let go of the friendship. And I really genuinely "get it"...how vitally important it is. I have felt "over" (or nearly over) this infatuation so many times, then we would all hang out, have a fantastic time together, and I'd be a complete mess by the next day. I'd have to climb that hill all over again. I don't want to keep going through this process.

But I have decided not to approach DH directly to bring about this result (since DH has declined). I hope that if DH and I begin doing more activities together, spending UA time...then, naturally, he will have less time for the friend.

I have no plan in place for leaving DH or breaking up the family. But I do realize that things have to change. I cannot constantly live under that sort of stress nor can the family.

The LB-ing that I have been doing amounts to me: constantly complaining about how dis satisfied I am, how I just want to run off, being irritable (seemingly out of nowhere),

As someone who is going through something similar, complaining of itself is not a love buster. AS Dr Harley states:

If you want to meet each other's emotional needs, and you want to overcome Love Busters, one essential ingredient is an honest expression of your emotional reactions to each other. What makes a marriage successful is your willingness and ability to accommodate each other's feelings. And without the facts about those feelings, an otherwise happy couple can become very unhappy as the events of life change.

The conditions that existed at the time of your marriage were partly responsible for the love you had for each other. Those conditions made it easy for you to meet each other's emotional needs, and tended to ward off Love Busters. They may have made you feel perfect for each other, because you did not have to do much to make each other happy.

But if you are like most couples, those conditions changed right after your marriage and have continued to change right up to the present. If you have not been able to adjust to those changes, you are probably very disillusioned about your compatibility. What had seemed effortless at first may seem impossible for you now.

But adjustment in marriage is not impossible. In fact, it may be quite a bit easier than you think. Because of the way your brain is put together, you have the ability to make remarkable adjustments to each other throughout life, as your environment changes. But in order to be successful, you must do four things:

First, you must realize that these changes will take place, whether you want them to or not. Many of the circumstances surrounding you cannot be controlled and will be changing constantly.

Second, you must stick to your goal of meeting each other's most important emotional needs, and avoiding Love Busters regardless of the change in conditions. A change can be very distracting, and can cause both of you to lose sight of your primary objectives in life. Don't let these changes cause you to lose sight of each other.

Third, you must be totally committed to making all of your decisions jointly and enthusiastically. Changes in circumstances require new decisions, and each must be made with each other's feelings in mind. Otherwise, the changes will leave one of you in the dust. Don't go on in life unless you are both on board.

And finally, in order to make the best decisions, you must be radically honest with each other about your emotional reactions to the changes in your lives. The best decisions take the emotional reactions of both of you into account simultaneously, but without an honest expression of those reactions, you will be missing the target.

While some couples may fail to make a successful adjustment after feelings are honestly explained, failure is almost guaranteed when the need for adjustment is never communicated. Always take each other's complains seriously. As I mentioned earlier, your emotional reactions are a gauge of whether you are making a good adjustment to each other. If you both feel good, you need no adjustment. If one or both of you feel bad, a change is indicated.

But let me also explain what honesty is not. It is not selfish demands or disrespectful judgments or angry outbursts.

AS long as you are not making the complaints SD, DJ or AO and informing your DH of your needs you are actually the one doing the positive thing in your marriage and don't need to think something is wrong with you.

My DH will not change, meet my needs or even take what I say as serious. He also says that he is 100 percent happy with me, while I am miserable. I have made it a point to only complain one time a week to let him know it isn't better. I am also spending time UA, meeting EN's and trying for RC as well in the mean time. I am however, getting ready to plan A and then Plan B him.

He does eventually need to understand that any contact you had with the OM needs to be severed forever. Since you can't get him on board, YOU need to make better boundaries around yourself to make sure it doesn't happen again with anyone else.

Sunshine, Thank you!! for your response. Oh, and welcome to MB. (I see that you are a new member yourself.) It would be nice to have someone to kinda relate to as we walk along this path to make our marriages stronger. (I am sure if we get something wrong, the vets will reroute us.) ;P I have just looked at your first post. We are the same age. And our spouses seem to have similiar behavior.



DH does not take my complaints seriously; he tries his best to avoid hearing them (since he thinks our marriage is perfect). DH didn't even take my feelings for OM seriously...proceeding to invite him over our home and mention his name to me at a minimum of every other day.




Perhaps DH does not want to take what you are saying "seriously" but maybe he will change (in spite of himself). I am holding out hope for both of our DHs.

My DH does not want to listen to what I am saying...but he responds very enthusiastically whenever I come up with ideas for things we should do. Or if I ask him for something [tangible], he will try to provide it. I am hoping that if I keep coming up with these ideas for RC and UA, he will get caught up in participating with me, he will spend less time on OM, and he will be pleased that I am not being "miserable". Once I have consistently put in some effort, he mght be more receptive to listening to what I have to say. Maybe he will "change" to keep it going (I'm hoping).

DH wants me to be happy. He is never more comfortable than when I am smiling, joking, and playing with him. If he sees that I can behave in a "happy" way, I'm sure he wouldn't want me to have a relapse of misery. Maybe that could help your DH, too??? I don't know.

But the last few days have been great. I feel happier with the choices I am making and that I am genuinely trying.

Heartfelt, I would stay on your husband and not let up until he agrees to cut this man out of your lives. Tell him that your infatuation with this man has greatly impacted the feelings you have for him. In addition, I would ask him to participate in this program with you. Just tell him straight out you are falling out of love with him.

Keep the issue of this man on the front burner. By not mentioning it he probably thinks it has blown over. And I would not allow the OM in your home or your presence.

ML,
Okay, I will stay on top of him.

But I am going to need a specific approach. I have had several conversations with DH about this. But OM was his buddy first before my infatuation so DH feels that it is wrong of me to interfere. The conversation only causes DH to have AO rather than listening to what I am saying. When I ask DH not to be his friend, DH says, "You're just mad because he doesn't love you."

I am trying to strengthen our marriage with the RC and UA. I don't want to keep arguing with him. But I will get on it (the subject of OM) first if that's what you all think is the first priority.

In any event, OM will not be around me anytime in the near future (that I am aware of)...as our lives are simply moving in different directions.

How did you explain the issue to him?

Mel,
It was a long time ago but (something like) I had "feelings for" his friend. I threw in the word infatuation to be clear. He translated that into basically I want to **[SF]** his friend. I told him that OM and I email each other and asked if he wanted to read the emails. He declined.

I have said many times, "I don't think you should be friends." DH would then make some snide comment about his friend's feelings (or lack thereof) for me.

Since then if his friend was on his way to our home and I changed outfits before OM was to arrive, DH would say: "You just want to look your best for (him)."

What I did NOT say was: Yes, you are correct. I thought many times about how I might **[SF]** your friend. Whether he "loves" me or not is not the issue. I realize that I don't "love" him, either, for that matter. But I thought I did. Yes, I thought I loved your friend. You should stop being friends with this person because everytime I see him and everytime I hear his name, I remember those feelings I had. Have. My boundaries have been compromised and I want to rebuild them. I need to rebuild them for us and for our family.

<-- Don't make me say it. Can you come up with something...nicer?

I would say this, but in a more forthright manner. You do alot of qualifying and beating around the bush. Your language is confusing and puts your feelings in the past. Your feelings are not in the past when you are triggered. I think you have to be radically honest because what you did say has left your H not understanding the issue. HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND, therefore he has no understanding of how dangerous this is to him. So you have be more forthright.


"Yes, you are correct. I thought many times about how I might **[SF]** your friend. Whether he "loves" me or not is not the issue, the issue is my infatuation with him. I realize that I don't "love" him, either, for that matter. But I thought I did. Yes, I thought I loved your friend. You should stop being friends with this person because Everytime I see him and everytime I hear his name, my feelings of love and infatuation are triggered. I remember those feelings I had. This directly affects the way I feel about you, because my emotions are comparing you to an infatuation. I want to be in love with you and this is hurting the love I feel for you.

ok, I re-read this and see that this was the version you did not use. If that is your forthright version, I can see why he doesn't get it. I would not GET your forthright version.

Sorry for the confusion, Mel. My "forthright" version was a tad confusing, teetering between past and present tense because... at this very moment, I am confused about that whole thing myself.

Today and yesterday I was trying to pull up (in my mind) what it was about OM that was so fascinating to me in the first place. I'm sure it was the prospect of energy/excitement (at the time). But I don't feel it at all right now.

Of course, there were times in the past year when it went away and came back due to very minimal contact. That's what I don't want to happen. I want to put it behind me once and for all.

I want to focus on the 6-8 week plan of rebuilding this romantic marriage. But I understand I have to take care of first things first.

Thanks, Mel.

Right. And that is understandable because you haven't been around him. But do you see how difficult it is to elicit those feelings when you don't see him? That is what your H needs to understand. And don't fuss with WHAT you found fascinating, that does confuse the issue.


Right.


If you tell him the way I outlined it above, I think he will GET IT. I am the type of person who needs very forthright language to get it and I suspect he may be too.

If you can help him understand and get him to agree to eliminate the OM from your lives, you will be successful at restoring the romantic love in your marriage. But as long as the OM makes these occasional appearances, you will be pulled back into that fantasy. And when that happens, your H pales in comparison. But he WON'T if you get the OM out of your lives and restore the romantic love. Hope that makes sense!