CV- Big U2 fan. Never heard this song. Found this on youtube.



Im really not a religious guy and Im not Christian. (Adultery crosses all religious lines despite what our Good Books say.) But after reading a ton of threads and every word on mine, this whole experience has left me searching for something bigger.

I guess its because, despite you fine folks, my kids who love me, and my FWW who is proclaming and demonstrating her rekindled love for me NOTWITHSTANDING, we in the reality of life are alone. Maybe its ringing true from Bob Pure's eeriee thread but I spend a lot of time talking to myself and asking unanswerable questions. And, when I get an answer that makes me feel better I wonder who gave me answer when, in fact, Im alone.

Soon after dday I had to go to a trade show and I was in a bad shape but the job required it. I got to speaking to a woman in a neighboring booth during down time and she was speaking about how she finds answers to problems in prayer. I never really gave it much thought. I told her about my situation which was odd considering I never met her before and I knew her for all of 10 minutes and now Im telling her about my wifes affair.

She didnt have a similar experience but told me about a trip to the Middle East where she met a man and spent the weekend with him and the guilt and "sin" she felt was almost unbearable. She wasnt embarassed but as a religious person, she gave into passions she felt went against her beliefs and so on. This happened 10 years earlier and there was no husband or relationship at home, just went against all she held to be true.

She encouraged me to seek a higher answer no matter which religion I follow. I told her I dont follow any religion religiously.

I travel on the road locally for my job and and this situation has me alone with my thoughts a lot. I find that lately I find help for daily angst on my own. Maybe its a higher source of help. Maybe its one of Never Guessed butt kickings still resounding in my head. I dont know.

Whatever it is, Ill take it. And when I come home and see my FWW smiling and hoping I walk in without a sour puss and a negged out attitude, I realize only me and that higher source can make that happen.

The trimmings of life like children and spouses in utopia are supposed to love you and stay true. You can raise your children as best as you can and they still can find reasons to hate you and desert you when they get the chance. You can make a committment to have and hold and to love and be true to another in front of God and family and still be cheated on.

How do you win in life when your expectations can be destroyed? Im learning to ask these questions of myself and expect the answers in most odd of places. Here on this thread, a stranger at a tradeshow, or from the back of my mind.

I know this to be true, my FWW is beautiful and loves me. She wishes she never hurt me and our kids. But she did. I have forgiven her and am helping her be a better person. And she is helping me to be better. Whoever made May 8th (our dday) happen, whoever made OMW find the evidence on May 8th, I want to thank Him because my life is better than ever today.

Do you recall the old story about the farmer, the rising flood-waters, and the helicopter, etc?

I find that lately I find help for daily angst on my own. Maybe its a higher source of help. Maybe its one of Never Guessed butt kickings still resounding in my head. I dont know.

Now I'm going to venture into CP-territory........

If anything I have ever offered has been of value, MSS, what power do YOU think put me in a position to still be here typing?

I've heard it said that when people complain that the Almighty no longer performs miracles, it really is an indication that those same people do not recognize the miracles as they occur.

BTW: You mention that infidelity crosses all religious boundaries. So does support.

E-A-O-T-P, MSS.

For me (and I am sure many others on the list), we find a truth outside of ourselves, and objective truth. I survived because of my faith in God, because I am a failure on my own. I have to trust that someone out there knows better than me, knows perfectly and works these things for my good, even when I don't see it.

For me, nothing happens through accident or chance, it is all purposed. Well, i don't want to get in trouble for proselytizing, but I would just add that I found that truth to be found in God as he has revealed himself in Scripture. It doesn't promise us we will be free from pain in this life, but it does promise something much better than this life. Anyway, the U2 song resonated with me, because in Grace, my wife took the blame... She didn't make many excuses. Her work on this covers the shame of what she did. Grace is making beauty out of an ugly thing..

Cv

Well the statement stuck out about how you feel we are really alone. That is a truth that can force us towards faith in something outside ourselves, and bring us also to realize how all this stuff effects us. Sometimes it is readily seen as it was for our own good,(As in when Dad or Mom disciplines us for something stupid whe we are kids), and sometimes it is obscured by time and emotional reactions.

So what is love? Where does it come from? We know it is not all good feelings all the time because Dad loved us when he scared us to stay away from drugs, and those people allways seemed to be feeling fine. But we know it when we feel it almost instantly inside, but don't see it when we are going through trials and growth.

We are here mainly talking about marriages, and I think everybody agrees in the MB principles, and understands that they require discipline, and it was at those times when the principles were not followed, that the biggest and most painful life shattering events in our marrige happened.

Why would someone follow those principles, being self secure in themselves, never having a tough day in thier lives when they did not have to transend? Who has not had to forgive and let something go they hated? The kid down the street who stole your bike, The guy who cut you off in traffic. These things are easy compared to the one who swore themselves to you and betrayed you, and reason defies the pain you suffered. The first two were not linked up to your soul, your life, the WS is, you can reason away why the others did what they did, and know they will recieve judgement, but its hard to see if the WS is suffering or getting dealt with internally.

So faith in what is right, before God who defends the righteous, is all you are left with, when you realize you are alone. Its what protects you, when temptation comes in many forms, and it allways does, and keeps you from becaoming macheveli, and sacrificing the permenant,(honor, self discipline, personal integrity, peace of mind), on the altar of the temporary,(anger, vindictiveness, and fear). Fear is a powerful motivator, and it effects us all and has a place. Awesome that God doesn't respect it in us, because he is a God of war, spiritual warfare that is.

But not going off into to much of a tangent, I just want you to know that becoming aware that we face a lot of things alone, is one of the reasons I as a man do my best to look to God and his standards,(battlefield standards Iv'e heard them called), for guidance on what to do next, beacuse if I lean just upon my own understanding, I find it not enough to have peace.

I wanted to comment on how you said you weren't religious. Now Christ hated the religious practices of the day mostly because they took away from God and made men think they were holy. I as everybody else here have heard or seen cases when people involved in different denominations have fallen from Grace. The problem arise because people forget that its God they are to look to first, then to the church, for guidance, and the church does not insulate them from truth, not really, not within themselves, or the mess that they can become, when the church replaces God in thier heart.

There are many good churches, but they are never supposed to be a replacement for our own personal relationship with God. They help share the word of God, and help open our mind to Him, but we have to make that commitment, and the way we follow is to realize that He first loved us. Gods ahead of us in providing what we need, even when it hurts.

Want to share something I really liked on the subject of spirtuality. Its something I need to read from a book I need to buy soon.

____________________-

It is Amazing to Be Human
So there is one person, with two aspects, but with many functions. Here is where we get a refined view of who we really are. The rich biblical vocabulary about human nature describes the dynamics of our inner life as being made in the image of God. Some passages describe our inner functions, and others emphasize a truth about what we are like.

The biblical word mind refers to the inner life, especially emphasizing our rational, cognitive, intellectual capabilities (Rom. 7:25; Col. 2:18). Heart (Rom.10:6, 8-10 , for instance) refers to the deep, inner core of our lives, where opinions and beliefs are formed, where we sense right and wrong, and where our love is centered. The Old and New Testament use of heart (unlike the English use which sometimes refers just to emotion) is inclusive of thought, emotion, and will. Just look for the word �heart� in some of the Psalms sometime, and you will see how Scripture points us to the core so that we will understand the deep place where our very selves are shaped. Will refers to the faculty of choice (Lk.22:42 ), and spirit is the word used to describe how human beings, unlike dogs and cats, salamanders and oak trees, are persons, made in the image of God, possessing morality, consciousness, creativity, and other godlike characteristics. And soul refers to the human person animated by the living power of God.

None of these are �parts� of the human being. One can no more separate human nature into different components than one can view the attributes of God as the constituent parts of his being.

So if someone were to ask you, �Who are you, really?� a biblical answer would be, �I am part of God�s creation, and I belong to a species that was uniquely shaped to bear the likeness of God. That is why have a sense of ought and ought not, and why I hope to grow in selfless love. That is why I am able to speak to others, why I imagine things that could be, and it is why I worship. I am a creature made of clay. I have a body that processes thousands of responses and reactions an hour, but that is also easily injured and made sick. One day this body will again become the dust of which it was made. But I also am spirit and soul. Inside there is a self-conscious, self-willing spiritual center. At this heart of myself I am constantly combining the thoughts that come to me from the outside, the voice of God�s Spirit speaking to me, and the things I�m telling myself. But mixed in there are also selfish and wicked motives that come from the inner spiritual fractures I was born with and which are amplified by external temptations.�

The biblical answer is not that I am a spirit trapped in a body, and one day when that body dies my true self will be liberated to coalesce with an eternal Spirit. (Those who have believed that over the centuries have thought that the spiritual self is the only true self and the body, like the rest of the physical universe, is a mass of troublesome dirt. This view holds that our spirits are sparks separated from the Divine Fire, that we bear in ourselves a bit of divinity. It also negates the value of God�s creation of physical things.)

No, I am not destined to become a ghost. Nor will I discover one day that I was God all along.

The soul is not, as some have proposed, a dreamy combination of commonly held feelings, thoughts, images, symbols, and memories that have produced the merely cultural phenomena of religions, myths, fantasies, and fairy tales. This view sees human beings as animals who have very vivid dreams and like to share them with each other.

No, the Bible depicts us as creatures almost too good to be true. And that makes the reality of sin and wickedness in our thoughts and deeds the greatest tragedy the world has ever seen.

Excerpt from Putting the Pieces Back Together: How Real Life and Real Faith Connect.

___________________________

I have looked at how God has shown me things in scripture that have allways exsisted, after I had experienced them the hard way, as an example of how the word was allways there for me. See the church hasn't been, not in the deeper places that I really needed help, they were only human and could not be, so I blamed religion as not really caring, and even put God on the shelf as "A book of good intentions". But God does reveal himself as existing in this world, when we are ready to see it, in small things sometimes, and sometimes the grand. Our childrens birth, the love of another, the miracle of grace. Nature has allways been a big one. Science(knowledge), and Omniscience, (All knowledge) have been facinating to follow and compare. How did the ancient prophets know the world was round in the old testement? Why was the earth said to be comsumed with fire in it last days? We can see its true now with technology, but what was their tool?

We can see God waving to us from all areas of creation if we let ourselves like a little guy on a bench reminding us we are not alone, we are His children, and He will comfort us. This too shall pass.

I like it CV. Reminds me of some scriptures, but it reminds me mostly of God and his nature and desire to restore us.

That's the key isn't it? The gospel is about restoration... reconciliation. It's centered on Grace as it comes to us through Jesus.

He sacrificed His own Son to reconcile us to himself while we were waywards. How can we not work for that with our own waywards?

Hate to be a party-pooper, Mike... but I gotta.

While nothing may have come of your conversation with this woman, it is an event that should not be repeated. The details of your life that you shared were personal, intimate. While it may have been a one-off at a trade show, conversations like this are, quite often, the same conversations that lead to affairs. The story you shared is one that many an OM has schlepped onto many a WW.

You, brother, need to establish better boundaries with women.

/party-pooping


On your issue of faith; for the most part, I'll leave gentleman like CP, CV, and possibly GO if he shows up to guide you in that.

For myself; not a believer. BUT... what I DO believe, is that one of the things you can do with this feeling of yours is to crack open a Bible and READ. No matter where that leads you, there is irrefutable wisdom found within. Read it with an open mind, and you will learn. Read it with an open heart, and you will find what you seek.

HHH-

Poop away.

I too am not a religious person but respect those who find solace and guidance in it. And I certainly like to read the Bible parts when they are posted in relevance to my issue of the day.

Now, with that woman at the show. The event was 10 days after dday and the tradeshow, alas, was brutally slow. The techniques and skills of MB were NOT known to me at the time. I found the site, I believe later that week. And yes, she was an attractive women if I recall and she started the conversation with "you look like you have something on your mind".

I guess innumerable affairs started with that exact line.

I was a mess and she seemed a good person to talk to as I dont want anyone of my associates knowing of this situation. I didnt take her contact info nor do I remember what company she worked for.

Knowing what I know about infidelity, I see your point that maintaining this type of practice can eventually lead to someone willing to go further than talk. Before MB and you guys, to be truthful, my anger and need to "get even" just mighta led me to a bad mistake.

Got your point. Its moot today as I have found the secrets to this and what Im still looking for will come to me and my wife together.

Mike, How are you doing today brother? Hanging in there?

Might I add open many books of interfaith seeking spiritual knowledge. I have allways been open to different teachings and views, and felt that God speaks to us in many ways. What good is having a God that needs protection by me? How can I I trust him?

CV-

Im doing really great actually. Turning some corners in this thing. My wife is doing great as she has full time work lined up for Sept and she's really growing up. We are passed a lot of the woulda, shoulda, and coulda stuff that i was laying on her and the mental movies that dominated me are much less part of my daily being.

We talk so much more than ever. And that, my friend, is the ticket.

She's still repentant and I have to sometimes get her fired up for the future. Remember, as her best friend from college put it, on May 8th our girl became an adult. She has a built-in fear of things adult-like. The future can be scary for her as for the last number of years she spent very little time considering it and live strictly for the moment. Lets not go there.

Anyway, thanks for asking and I hope your Mrs. is feeling better these days.

mss

Sounds like you're moving along! All good stuff! I remember (June 18th for us) telling W "you are no longer a baby, it's time to grow up and your learning curve is short". She manned up thankfully.

We are hanging in there. Tired and hopeful. Keeping our eyes on the prize so-to-speak...

CV

No I wish to seek God thru the diversity of different conceptual understanding of spirit. I confidant that the truth will remain the same, but my understanding will increase. It is I and my concepts of God that are weak, not the love for us, that is within the disciplines nessesary to rise above our fleshly emotions and towers of self deception of security
We are weak and need to learn that this life is a vapor, and what we have is only a short time to live the best we can, and rise above even ourselves
I have no ability to do this, because I am finite. Limited by my own understanding. I/we need God, by any means possible, to bring us to peace in life and in death, in all that is and will be and has passed away

Hope that makes sense,

--TJ---
CP,

First sign of senility is responding to your own posts!

CV

First sign of senility is responding to your own posts!

...with a further sign being conducting an argument between them!

(I have actually found myself doing that!)

Yes well I'm past senile but still like to argue with myself NG, seems I'm the only person who cares about what's really important to me

Roflmao

Mike, you are soo bad!!

I tired to give him a head start to get onboard with my limited MB skills and he fought all morning.

I remember way back when, say late May, a young, naive distressed poster came on here and thought he knew all the answers. He'd fight and argue that his deal was unique. Several one-twos and uppercuts later, he towed the line and life is real good a few months later.

That guy was me.

I thought it was good coming from you beacuse you where there, maybe send him your thread. you really went thru it!