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Have you shown your DH the text? Is it at all inappropriate? If so maybe you can make him see that his friend isnt just the innocent object of a crush.

An imo he isnt innocent. A man knows when he is having an efect on a woman. The good eggs back away from a married one.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Indie,

No, I did not show DH the text...which he will undoubtedly write-off as his friend's typical inappropriate behavior.

Oh my...there's no use explaining: I will show him. (...and I will post something tomorrow about how DH blew it off, I'm sure...)

Well, the bottomline is: I know what's going on whether or not DH accepts it, I allowed it to happen, and I must stop it.

I need to be able to know that they are going to remain friends, hear DH talk about him to me every other day, hear his GF talk about him to me, and overcome this thing.

I just did not want to deal with this terrible mess.




Me: WW
DH: BS
EA: 04/18/09 til
DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
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I don't think this is workable at all HF...

There is just no way you can continue contact for life after an EA with a man your DH has basically said he will pick keeping his friendship with over your marriage.

Can you expose OM?
If you let the whole world know that he is coming on to you, you have feelings for him and have told him to stay away and he won't-- you need his friends and family and GF to know what he is doing and to help you???

I think exposure from you and a No contact letter from you to OM might be the only way.


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Originally Posted by heartfelt_1
Indie,

No, I did not show DH the text...which he will undoubtedly write-off as his friend's typical inappropriate behavior.


So it is inappropriate? How? When was the first time he said something inappropriate to you and did you tell your h?

Have you and this OM ever had a discussion about these feelings you have?

How did you not feel it was relevant to show your h that his so called friend is predatory towards you, his wife?

YOUR job is not to predict his 'blow off' reaction btw but to keep yourself honest and your side of the street clean.


Originally Posted by heartfelt_1
Indie,

I need to be able to know that they are going to remain friends, hear DH talk about him to me every other day, hear his GF talk about him to me, and overcome this thing.


You arent going to be able to do that. You must convince your h of the danger facing your marriage by being RADICALLY honest.

Which I dont think you are being if you keep texts secret.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Okay, I am getting a little confused...and would prefer not to talk about the friend. I was on a different path before Wednesday (before the text) and I want to return to that path.

If anyone could help me with a couple questions so I can move on:

1. This text was very random and out of the ordinary. Do you feel that blocking his number is sufficient?

2. Do you think I should send a NC letter to the friend? (DH has told me not to do so. Do I need to PoJA the NC letter or no?)

3. If DH is not going to stop being friends with him, is it impossible for me to meet the MB principles?

4. The friend has a GF now that I like very much. Should I involve her?


I think when I started back here a couple weeks ago, I was not (very) "foggy"...and I am talking about him (friend) too much now. I want to fous on my DH...NOT relapse. Okay...thank you for your thoughts.


Me: WW
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DDay: 06/30/10
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Indie,

Earlier on in one of her posts she did tell her H many times of her feeling for him, the danger she feels she is in by being radically honest.

This was his response:
I told him that I can guarantee him that if I continue down the path I was on, I will cheat on him. I guarantee it. He disagreed. Ok.
I said, "If you know I like [name], you don't bring him in our home, in my bedroom, put him in my bed, and say 'Good luck'. There is a difference between trust and stupidity...a difference between trust and burying your head in the sand." He said, "Wrong." He is not burying his head in the sand because he trusts my ability to make the right choice. He only gives me one rule (just one): not to **[SF]** someone else. He believes I will not do it. And he is never going to believe otherwise until I do it. I should talk to him after I do it.

At one point he said, "I don't know. Maybe this guy really opened your eyes or something..." He said if it was any other man, he'd have a problem with both me and OM. He said that "Luckily, I am not like that. If my friend slept with you, I wouldn't even be mad at him. I'd be mad at you." He said he has expectations of me that he does not have of his friends. He would be hurt and disappointed (if I failed). He has no expectations of his friends. He said the only way he would be mad at his friend is if the friend slept with his wife and didn't tell him. He expects his friend to say, "Hey man, I slept with your wife. Your wife is sh**." I said then what he is telling me is that he is choosing his friendship over his marital contract. He'd be mad at me but still be friends with the OM. He went on to say that he knows that friends will always choose themselves over you. I'd be the only one not meeting his expectations.



HF, the reason people keep bringing up OM is that is really does effect your marriage now. No real steps for recovery have happened and others can chime in. You can't just sweep this under the rug.

Hugs! hug


ME: 33 W DH: 39
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
So it is inappropriate? How? When was the first time he said something inappropriate to you and did you tell your h?


He wrote about a time we were all going somewhere together and a song came on the radio. Apparently, I was signing along to it. He said that everytime he hears the song he thinks of me singing some sexually-based lyrics (that I do not recall saying...but who knows?). [I did not write the exact phrase here as it would be edited out.]

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Have you and this OM ever had a discussion about these feelings you have?

no. never.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
How did you not feel it was relevant to show your h that his so called friend is predatory towards you, his wife?

YOUR job is not to predict his 'blow off' reaction btw but to keep yourself honest and your side of the street clean.

i never discussed any feelings with his friend and i couldn't blame him for my behavior.

alright, i will try to stop predicting my DH's reaction.


Originally Posted by heartfelt_1
Indie,

I need to be able to know that they are going to remain friends, hear DH talk about him to me every other day, hear his GF talk about him to me, and overcome this thing.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
You arent going to be able to do that. You must convince your h of the danger facing your marriage by being RADICALLY honest.

THANKS! That is one of the things I needed to know...if we can recover with them remaining friends.


Me: WW
DH: BS
EA: 04/18/09 til
DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
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hi Sunshine!

nice to see you...though not on this forum particularly...i would have liked to not think of this (as you can see).

Originally Posted by sunshine5
HF, the reason people keep bringing up OM is that is really does effect your marriage now. No real steps for recovery have happened and others can chime in. You can't just sweep this under the rug.

This is difficult to accept...but I hear you. Alright, so now I am starting from scratch. I had not been recovering because I was trying to ignore the "elephant in the room".

Originally Posted by sunshine5
I don't think this is workable at all HF...
There is just no way you can continue contact for life after an EA with a man your DH has basically said he will pick keeping his friendship with over your marriage.
Can you expose OM?
If you let the whole world know that he is coming on to you, you have feelings for him and have told him to stay away and he won't-- you need his friends and family and GF to know what he is doing and to help you???

I can tell his GF, yes.
My DH has said several times that I may not send a NC letter. (I assume DH will be embarrassed and angry.)
I had not told his friend to stay away from me. We just stopped writing emails, I closed my FB, and we haven't seen each other in awhile. (<-- ways we typically communicate.)

How are things going for you today, Sunshine? I hope you have a pleasant weekend. Looking forward to hearing you on Monday!


Me: WW
DH: BS
EA: 04/18/09 til
DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
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That isnt what I what meant - why would you want your husband to remain friends with someone who is ok with sending vile, disrepectful texts to a married woman? This man is talking to you like you are a 'ho.

He has poor boundaries,

He is no friend to your marriage

He has no respect for you

Your h needs GOOD friends who respect his marriage and his wife.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by heartfelt_1
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Have you and this OM ever had a discussion about these feelings you have?

no. never.


Have you ever said anything flirty, inappropriate, romantic or sexual to him?

He sounds very predatory, in short hes a scumbag. I think his GF needs to know about the ticking time bomb she has waiting for her.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by sunshine5
Indie,

Earlier on in one of her posts she did tell her H many times of her feeling for him, the danger she feels she is in by being radically honest.


Which counts as approaching honesty, but it is not radical honesty. RH means not keeping any secrets. Particulary that text, which shocks me to my core.

My h kept texts sent to him like this secret and that deception is more hurtful than picturing him having SF with OW.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Heartfelt you show a willingness to be honest about difficult things.

It is good for you to do this, regardless of your h reaction because radical honesty makes couples understand each other better. It is not surprising he doesnt understand the danger when you gloss over so much. Telling yourself 'oh it wont help anyway' is not productive. If you make yourself more transparent and accountable, your state of mind will improve.

Maybe give your phone to your h for a while until the number can be changed? Or if he is not keen on NC letter, ask if he could he possibly send a text back to OM which says, 'Oh its heartfelt's hubby here. I have her phone today, she lends it to me sometimes. She asked me to check something when I saw your message. Thought to myself thats funny I dont remember her singing that song - are you sure you didnt mean someone else?'

This 'friend' may then get the message that your phone is not a good way to get in touch as your h has free access to it. He will aso be (deservedly) embarrassed in front of his friend as to what a little sneak he is.

If (as you say) your h wants YOU to be accountable and to put a stop to things - you cant really do better than that can you?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Heartfelt you show a willingness to be honest about difficult things.

It is good for you to do this, regardless of your h reaction because radical honesty makes couples understand each other better. It is not surprising he doesnt understand the danger when you gloss over so much. Telling yourself 'oh it wont help anyway' is not productive. If you make yourself more transparent and accountable, your state of mind will improve.

Maybe give your phone to your h for a while until the number can be changed? Or if he is not keen on NC letter, ask if he could he possibly send a text back to OM which says, 'Oh its heartfelt's hubby here. I have her phone today, she lends it to me sometimes. She asked me to check something when I saw your message. Thought to myself thats funny I dont remember her singing that song - are you sure you didnt mean someone else?'

This 'friend' may then get the message that your phone is not a good way to get in touch as your h has free access to it. He will aso be (deservedly) embarrassed in front of his friend as to what a little sneak he is.

If (as you say) your h wants YOU to be accountable and to put a stop to things - you cant really do better than that can you?

I have absolutely no problem with giving DH my phone. He can read any and all of my text messages. I will find a way to direct him to his friend's texts without making a big deal out of it. Actually, DH likes to keep me up-to-date with the latest technology. I'll just ask him some tech question that would require him to look at my text messages. Then, I won't have to say it myself...and he can see for himself... Is that sneaky? smile

Thanks, Indie.


Me: WW
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Have you ever said anything flirty, inappropriate, romantic or sexual to him?

Yes, I am sure that I said something flirty or inappropriate to his friend. (But I have been flirty in general...as I understood flirting to be harmless and a normal part of socializing...pre-MB.)

I have not said anything romantic.

I have not said anything outright sexual but something that could have been construed that way.


Me: WW
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DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
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Originally Posted by heartfelt_1
[quote=indiegirl] Actually, DH likes to keep me up-to-date with the latest technology. I'll just ask him some tech question that would require him to look at my text messages. Then, I won't have to say it myself...and he can see for himself... Is that sneaky? smile

Thanks, Indie.


What is the problem with being direct with him? You need to communicate much more effectively with him than you have been.

Be forthright. Say - look at this text, I think it's really inappropriate.

If he agrees and confronts his friend - great.

If not suggest he return a text which wil freak this other a guy out a bit to hear from him on your phone. which will hopefully nip things in the bud.

Though this friend and you havent spoken about feelings, things have been VERY inappropriate nontheless. You and your h need to stand united so this guy gets the message you wont hide things from your h. This requires you and your h TALKING!!!

So whats the problem?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by heartfelt_1
...Yes, I am sure that I said something flirty or inappropriate to his friend. (But I have been flirty in general...as I understood flirting to be harmless and a normal part of socializing...pre-MB.)
Yeah... if you are trying to attract a mate. That's what flirting is for.

But you've already got a mate. You said "I will" and accepted his ring on your finger. So why hedge your bets?

I can see why you wish to discontinue this line of discussion. It has exposed some inconvenient truths. Inconvenient, that is, if your wish is to continue to be able to hedge your bets, to keep the possibilities open. Maybe you & DH's buddy can get something going on the side someday. No one would have to know. And anyway, it wouldn't be your fault, after all. If your husband were more attentive. If he made himself more available to you. Right? And after all, life is short. Are you supposed to be miserable for the rest of your life? God wouldn't want that, right? And maybe your DH would be fine with it. He probably doesn't care enough to be mad or hurt, right?

You've heard all you need to hear from me, heartfelt_1. There's nothing more I can tell you or do for you.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
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Heartfelt I want to thank you because in lots of ways what you are going through something I did once.

And I actually thought until very very recently that I too had been radically honest.

Here is something I wrote on my thread. I thought I was being very truthful when I wrote this. But I lied!

Originally Posted by indiegirl
There was a time when I was on the brink of my own EA.

We'd been married about a year. My h was worried about losing his job, I wanst earning and he was very distant. My efforts to talk to him only seemed to worry him more, so i made a very naive decision to just put 'my feelings in the freezer' and wait for him to get over his worry. Very stupid.

At the time I was on a course that involved spending all day every day with the same group of people. I became very close to them, and felt they were important to me, although funnily enough I am no longer in contact with any of them!

One in particlar seemed to admire me a great deal, though nothing inappropriate was ever said or done. It was mostly 'looking' if that makes sense. The flattery was overpowering, but it didnt make me happy at all. It made very anxious and worried.

I knew that I wouldnt find him attractive if I was single. I knew it was only a reflection of problems at home. I knew it was shallow. But knowing these things seemed to make no difference to the pull I felt. It was horrible, like a rip tide that I was ashamed to call for help with.

I felt if I didn't unburden myself soon, I would go mad. I actually think if this peson had been a bit more overt or predatory, I would have spoken to him about it. That would have led to a discussion about feelings - and bang - full blown EA.

In my case, luckily he was actually very careful not to overstep any bounds. I dont credit him with any nobility on this point though. I think he was a bit immature, wanted to have a no-pressure crush and selfishly enjoyed my reactions.

This left me talking to my sis, but this didnt help.

I ended up being forced into the only option left - talking to my H as Dr Harley recommends in his policy of radical honesty. (though this was long before ever hearing of it)

I wasnt radically honest in fact. I glossed over a lot, lot more details than you did. I didnt even tell him the guy's identity!! I did just enough to ease some pressure and guilt. Just enough to DEMAND that my h paid more attention to my ENS. I dont think I ever even apologised to him for allowing someone else to meet my needs.

Since I became a BS I am really glad I avoided a EA using honesty. However I wish I had gone further.

Even more, I wish I hadnt set the example that hiding such important details from the person I loved was ok.

I wouldnt wish this on you.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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indie,

i thought i had already been forthright with my DH about my feelings for his friend. he was not concerned.

the fact that i told him about the "feelings" (instead of sleeping with his friend) only proves to my DH that I don't have it in me to have an affair (PA). that's what he says.

but i came here for advice not to defend my own way of thinking (which was obviously flawed) SO alright. he is hanging out with friends right now. i will let you know what happens after i point out this inappropriate text...


Me: WW
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EA: 04/18/09 til
DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
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Good for you.

It is more about knowing you have done everything YOU could so you have nothing to reproach yourself for.

I agree you have told YOUR side of things - but you dont seem to have warned your h about his friends part in things.

With friends like that .....who needs enemies?

Your H's reactions do seem strange, but I think until you have spelled out the extent of the problem, you cant rule out that he simply doesnt understand the danger.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
There was a time when I was on the brink of my own EA.

We'd been married about a year. My h was worried about losing his job, I wanst earning and he was very distant. My efforts to talk to him only seemed to worry him more, so i made a very naive decision to just put 'my feelings in the freezer' and wait for him to get over his worry. Very stupid.

At the time I was on a course that involved spending all day every day with the same group of people. I became very close to them, and felt they were important to me, although funnily enough I am no longer in contact with any of them!

One in particlar seemed to admire me a great deal, though nothing inappropriate was ever said or done. It was mostly 'looking' if that makes sense. The flattery was overpowering, but it didnt make me happy at all. It made very anxious and worried.

I knew that I wouldnt find him attractive if I was single. I knew it was only a reflection of problems at home. I knew it was shallow. But knowing these things seemed to make no difference to the pull I felt. It was horrible, like a rip tide that I was ashamed to call for help with.

I felt if I didn't unburden myself soon, I would go mad. I actually think if this peson had been a bit more overt or predatory, I would have spoken to him about it. That would have led to a discussion about feelings - and bang - full blown EA.

In my case, luckily he was actually very careful not to overstep any bounds. I dont credit him with any nobility on this point though. I think he was a bit immature, wanted to have a no-pressure crush and selfishly enjoyed my reactions.

This left me talking to my sis, but this didnt help.

I ended up being forced into the only option left - talking to my H as Dr Harley recommends in his policy of radical honesty. (though this was long before ever hearing of it)

Indie,

Thank you for sharing this-- your story-- with me. And I am sorry for what you have had to endure as a BS.

I will be very direct about the text, make a suggestion for what DH should do about it, and ask him what he intends to do about it.

I HEAR what everyone is saying to me... I always feel awful for coming here, saying hurtful things, asking for advice, and then feeling like I disappoint people (you all) because I seem obstinate, defensive, or unwilling to do what needs to be done.

Your story sounded so familiar to me.

I keep thinking that I have been radically honest with DH...but ALL THIS TIME has passed and i STILL have not blamed the friend for a thing. I still have not quoted a word he said to me to my DH. DH cannot blame him (and reconsider their friendship) if I don't give him the specific "ammunition" (as it were). i will provide specifc examples to DH.

i will be very disappointed if he blows it off again.

Okay, thank you for pushing this issue!!! I will let you know the outcome.

I hope you have an enjoyable weekend.


Me: WW
DH: BS
EA: 04/18/09 til
DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
2 lovely happy children

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