Im sort of a nerd when it comes to investigating theories. If you're going to do it, do it right, following instructions correctly. Otherwise you will never prove it right or wrong.

I was simply trying it. Partly because I had nothing to lose, partly because the drama was killing me and I was dying to slam a door in his face.

I was q simply amazed at its effectiveness on ME, and now I am a believer. Dr H's theories made sense to me from the get-go - but there were a few things I found a bit hard to agree with.

(one was the no-opposite sex friends rule!!! clearly before i found out about the A)

However the past few months have shaken loose all my doubts. I think its important to have an open mind and give things a chance. A REAL chance, by following the rules.

Take recovery. It's still a bit of a stretch for me to believe relationships can recover from something like this. But I would take a shot. A REAL shot, giving it all I had if the conditions were right.

Yes funny isn't it? How we can sometimes be afraid to follow directions? Like life was so perfect before, and the world was going to have to comply to our wishes sooner or later. We can get to comfortable and then when the cold water gets thrown on us, it seems like such a surprize. "Hey!, I was enjoying my complacency and creature comfort! Can I have it back please?" "Maybe I will find someone who will agree with me. How about that new person I met at work?"

Then there are those who come here and are in recovery that have a hard time realizing that although thier marriage was/is in tough shape, and they are depressed because it needs change, that its only a matter of time if they go all in. The "death" of the old relationship will be resurrected to an even better and happier new one, if they will just let go of the old one. Sometimes they just won't let go of that old life. But change comes anyway, we only can control the direction if we grab the bull by the horns.

I agree with Scotty BTW that you picked up quickly on this stuff, and because you put a confident, cool and rational foot forward with conviction to follow the plan, and were not encased with fear, that you did well, and it would be much easier for others if they would do it to. It speaks of your objectivity and confidance in action.

I have a way I think of authority when I work for someone that is similar. When I am told to do something a certain way by my boss, unless I know for a fact that I could do it for his sake a better way,(yes his sake),I will do it just like he says. Instead of complaining to everybody about how much better my way is, and muttering to myself about it, I just do it and report the results back to the boss. I won't get dragged into murmuring with other workers either, and just say,"Thier the boss". If they call me a brown nose I say, "Well you can just call me brownie then"

You see authority figures need to learn also, and they take final responsibility for problems that arise. If I do what they say, with enthusiasm, and not my way, when they aren't looking, or because I think I know better, I am thwarting thier efforts, and destroying the posibility for success. They are in charge, and we need someone in charge and coordinating.

I might "think" I could do thier job better, but most likely I couldn't, and have no idea what it entails, not in the big picture. So I am thankful for them, and do what I hope they would do for me, if I was in thier position...what I am told to do. Its a common fact that if you show up for your job every day, and do exactly as you are told, you have allready beaten out 90% of the competition.

It takes a little guts to do as your told when all the others are busy finding very creative ways not to because they know better and don't like authority. In the end we are all middle management because thier is allways something or someone higher to answer to. Nobody gets it thier way forever, its allways changing, as we change with it and still hold onto what is valuable, our standards and boudaries that protect them. There is allways a higher authority. Ticks some people off to think that way, but thats thier problem.

So Indie you have had the guts to follow direction with an open mind, and instead of finding reasons not to do the plan, found ways to make it happen when you didn't even see its wisdom yet. Thats faith Sister. Welcome to the top 10%

Softlad tried to contact me tonight.

As my landline phone number is still the same, Ive been screening calls so Im not taken unaware.

Tonight got a 'text message delivery' from his number to the landline, which is like a spoken message in a robot voice.

He used to send me funny messages that would sound odd in the robot voice to make me laugh using this method.

As soon as the message started to spell out his number, I ended the call without listening to the message.

I am very proud of myself because I was sooooo tempted to listen!!

What on earth could he possibly be ringing about? He has the IM for bill stuff etc. And why use that method of contact? The landline is the only contact point I havent changed, but why text, why not call?

Its hard not to get your hopes up.

Its also difficult not to feel a bit smug about the safety of plan B.

Getting mad now.

He doesnt care enough to agree NC through the IM which he KNOWS is what is needed to speak to me.

Doesnt care that all this nonsense is simply jerking me around.

The caring man with integity that I knew, would be horrified.

Been reading Rilla of Ingleside, (a sequel to Anne of Green Gables) and was really struck by a piece of wisdom regarding revenge.

Schoolkids in the first world war talking about what they would do to the Kaiser .....

"Norman Reese said in school to-day that he would like to tie the Kaiser to a tree and set cross dogs to worrying him," said Bruce gravely. "And Emily Flagg said she would like to put him in a cage and poke sharp things into him. But Mrs. Blythe"-- Bruce took a little square paw out of his pocket and put it earnestly on Anne's knee--"I would like to turn the Kaiser into a good man--a very good man--all at once if I could. That is what I would do. Don't you think, Mrs. Blythe, that would be the very worstest punishment of all?"

"Bless the child," said Susan, "how do you make out that would be any kind of a punishment for that wicked fiend?"

"Don't you see," said Bruce, looking levelly at Susan, out of his blackly blue eyes, "if he was turned into a good man he would understand how dreadful the things he has done are, and he would feel so terrible about it that he would be more unhappy and miserable than he could ever be in any other way. He would feel just awful--and he would go on feeling like that forever. Yes"--Bruce clenched his hands and nodded his head emphatically, "yes, I would make the Kaiser a good man--that is what I would do--it would serve him 'zackly right."

Turning a 'wicked fiend' into a good man. Is this what I am trying to do?

Not in Plan B your not, your preserving what love you had, your not trying to do anything to him except ignore him.

Well, I emailed you about this, but in case there are some lurkers out there following along wondering the same thing, DO NOT RESPOND TO IT IN ANY WAY.

There was an incident I had a few weeks ago, or so, where my WH texted my house phone twice at 830am. My DS11 answered, believing it was his dad calling him, and then he heard the robot voice. He didn't listen to it and hung up. A part of me is really curious what was said in those texts, but I believe that they weren't even meant for THIS house. I think they were probably meant for OW. Sometimes those little aliens that control their minds get a little screwy. Happened when I was in Plan A, so why not in Plan B too.

Wisdom and sense, thanks guys!

Indie, I spent yesterday reading your thread, and congratulations on your strength and wisdom in not listening to that text!!! He is just trying to pull your strings. I am only new to Plan B, by no means an expert but wanted to offer some encouragement.

Stay strong, stay resolved, you deserve that and you can control that!

You struck a chord with me with that Quote from the book. Revelation of who we are, can be so painful we run away from it our whole lives. Sometimes just little things, sometimes big ones, but as the Good Book says, "We hide in the darkness"

The drastic personality sides of my late wife, we so extreme, that she thought in terms of "Good or Bad" and did not leave room for the grey area between. The words recovering would scare her because they included the possibility of maybe and maybe of possiby

Oh crap that song "forgiveness" by Don Henley came on..tears..lol. Well if nothing else I am honest and transparent. roflmao.

By the time my WW was passing away, even though I would have sold my soul to again restore her health and us, I know she had lost all ability to forgive herself, or even grasp the understanding of what had happened to her, and recover physically. She had lost the grace, and the ability for repentance, because the emotions had taken completly over and drove her for years. If she had returned to the sharp and aware person she used to be, she would have been a prospect for an institution, it would have scared her so bad.

All of her identity was built from believing she was protected from the fears of her past, and the consequences she saw in her family, by faith in Christ. But she stopped short there, because she never allowed herself to be human, and therefore didn't see her weaknesses, or agree to get help with the very dangerous ones, like denial.

Brass outward appearence and statements masked the fear and indecision underneath, and set her up for failure, as she battled valiently like Don Quixiote, exhausting herself emotionally. She said what she knew in conviction was true about Gods love, but was not disciplined in waiting, like the rest of us. I had to for years constantly remind her, that everything that was put in her lap to deal with, all the unfairness and pain and fear she suffered as a child, was covered by God, and that was enough. She was pumped up to even it up, and to her God would give her the very things that meant nothing in the Kingdom. Temporal power, money, reputation and fame.

She was like those who were waiting for a Messiah to come conquer the world and make them royal and raise them above all the others who judged her. She did not see he already came and leveled the field, and that the truth was nobody was better than another, judgement was satisfied.

I had to come to the understanding, that my WW had gone so far that she would never return, and inside she was tortured, by herself, and I viewed her coming death as mercy. She would never forgive herself, and her facultys were gone. But I would have stood by her in all of it, and help her get peace, one step at a time, if God had spared her. I was just waiting for her to come back, and was worn out with the struggle, so many years and so much had happened, so much destroyed that we would never get back. I was broken and physically broken too, with a church that was little support for me, and who allowed her to treat herself like crap, but did not have the respect for her to kick her butt, well now it was too late. But you could not pay me to do anything different than to stay and fight for her. That determination is my weakness and also my strength. Thats how that works too.

If you only knew how many times I would have let her go, except that in every case, she would be heading towards death, because she was an alcoholic. If she would only go to AA, get a grip on herself,and love herself and take care of herself, then as Dr H says, we could have tried healing the marriage at that point. But That was the problem, running away in denial, acting like she was large and in charge, and not taking accountability for the bills she racked up, the people she used or hurt. I would have let her go, to find her own way, a better man more suited to her, even a shiester or a conman who tied her up and dragged her to betty ford clinic, where she could meet the stars and rub elbows with them as a bennie. AT least she would be alive, but she had me because I would not turn her away while she was sick, not the mother of my children, not the woman I used to know. The guilt was strong in me.

But it would have been the best thing I could have done, like I did years ago. which brought her back for a partial recovery, that had such hope in it, if we had followed all the instincts I knew we should have, against the guidance of her church, and made her go to AA. When she fell again of the wagon, I should have ended it and insisted on AA. It probably would have ended the marriage, and thier is no gaurantee, but maybe she would have gotten treatment, and still be alive.

Is it possible that I loved and protected her too much? In this case I guess I did. That question might never be answered and I can't be sure I could have done anything, but that is over now, and life goes on.

The little boy was right, making him a good man of conscience would have been the best choice as it would be turning him over to the conscience which would have tortured him, until he submitted it to another authority. Kaiser if he could experience all the pain of others who he killed in his own drive from fear towards power, and their familys, would probably wish for death, to stop the pain. would he ever come back to the place where he tried to justify his past because his sins were like scarlett? Probably if ever given the power again, but not if he was a good man and did not lean on his own understanding, and saw things from the point of eternity, in objectivity. Yes the bible, the only book that can kill someone, and thank God when it does.

He wants you to get mad Indie, its all he has left to control you, and he thinks that it means you still love him. In a way its true, but its only because you still have some balance in your love bank, and he is fast dwindling the balance, because he doesn't know the difference from negative attention and positive, he just is getting a reaction. Every time he does this it will take away some of it, but because he is selfish and wayward, attention is attention to him, he is [censored] of the walk, master of his universe, and it is getting smaller and smaller as you know.

As far as changing him goes, let God handle it. You don't want to have to be his conscience too do you? You need someone whole and ready to be your husband. If he decides to come back as that man, you need him to prove it also.

Deserve? I leave that up to you. We have to work for what we want, and we get ripped off some of the time, it doesn't mean we have to let it happen without a fight, or go back to that establishment either.

You will be fine, don't let him bait you

Softlad's cousin in Ireland has just facebooked me, wanting to know if theres any news.

So I told him all the news about me! But I dont think thats what he meant...he will probably come back and specify news about SL

What I tell him will probably get relayed to all the Irish relatives, who are quite close to Softlad

The cousin and SL are particularly close and speak regularly so he should know whats happening. On the other hand he's quite sharp and if softlad is lying and fogbabbling he will want my side to see how it tallys.

SL could also be keeping everyone at arms length, just not communicating with them.

Am I ok to tell the cousin about my blocking all contact? That would probably lead to other q's such as am I finished with him..

I am thinking of replying as follows:

Hi, no I haven't heard anything about him but I am purposefully keeping myself out of it.

I told SL he wouldnt be allowed to speak to me until he ended contact with OW forever. He has a way of getting in touch with me through a third party and he hasnt yet agreed to do that.

I am also asking people not to tell me any news about him, so I don't even know if he is still in the country.

By the way, if you do hear anything about him, dont tell me. I need to concentrate on healing myself and it holds me back.


What do you think.....?

Until the vets get here with comments, just thought I would say I like it... actually, this is almost word for word what I have planned to say to some mutual friends. I am learning it is a very important part of healing ourselves in Plan B to not hear anything about WH... even hearing that someone else has had contact with him sends me into a spin, as some part of me is desperate for information. Better to just be upfront with those people to not mention WH around you, which your reply would do.

Good luck and hope the vets shed more light on it for you!

Cheers. Im feeling good about your Plan B too, think you're on to a winner. You're already sounding stronger.

He might just honestly have wanted to know what was happening with me. Its really hard actually, because people walk on eggshells about it. I would rather people just asked outright, theres nothing to be scared of!!

I often just tell people the truths that if they passed it on to WH I wouldn't care. I tell people that I am hurting the kids are hurting and that I would truly reconcile with my WH if he ended his A and was repentant. I don't talk poorly about him(except to some close friends whom I vent to). I figure that everything I say or type is going to wind up on WHs lap, so I say just enough.

It is a juggling act for sure. Follow your instincts though you have really good ones.

I learned from the master.........

And I learned from many masters. Isn't MB great?

Ok I want to clear up an important omission about something Ive posted on here, because I feel it's deceptive.

I didnt spell this out for myself until posting to someone in a similar situation....



The truth is, I wasn't radically honest. I told him WHAT had happened but never told my h WHO the person in q was.

I said: "I think we are having problems because I have started having feelings for someone. I am too flattered by his atention and I think he notices".

But I didnt tell him who. I said it didnt matter because the person in q hadnt so much as said anything flirty or done anything wrong and that it was just a reflection of OUR problem!!!

How foggy is that!!!!!

I told him there was incoming enemy fire, but not what direction to defend in.

He then went about finding out who for himself, and he did figure it out. For a while there though, he must have seen enemies everywhere - when I left the house to go anywhere he must have been wondering who I was going to see.

I can only hope that being halfway honest was reassuring to him.

I think the worst thing was that I set a terrible example that it is ok to be secretive when you are afraid of certain consequences.

I think I feared a showdown of some description between them, which is crazy as nothing of the sort happened.

I wish I had done better

Don't beat yourself up about this, sweetie. Now you know differently. You thought you were doing the right thing at the time.

I do, thanks.

I am starting to get to the point where I want to sing MB gospel from the hills!!!

SOOOO many people are starting to confide in me about infidelity type stuff after exposure...

But dont tell anyone!! they whisper

Then they refuse my advice!!

The right thing isn't often the easy thing to do. I too had the beginnings of an online EA at a time before my WH fell down the trap. I remember defending this "friendship" and choosing it over my WH. I was slipping down that slippery slope, and I even admitted to my WH shortly before I found MB that had this OM been local, I may have entered PA territory. The thing that stopped me? I had a dream that OM was the devil. He was coming to take my soul. Now keep in mind, I think of myself as a very spiritual person, but not very religious, so this was hard to take. But, I decided, when I awoke from that very dream, that OM was BAD NEWS and I needed to stay away. He was SMOOTH and he was a predator. I realized that soon after I ended contact, but boy while you are in there, the fog sure is thick.

There have been times in people's lives where they didn't know better, this was a time for me. You recognize your own weaknesses which is GREAT because you can't shore up your faults without first recognizing them.

As my dad often says, "When you know better, do better."

One of the reasons that I was certain that I would be able to forgive my WH if he asked for that chance, was that I KNEW that I had it in me too, and I couldn't condemn someone for a fault that I too had. It's true that I stopped myself, but who knows what could have happened.