Does it help to tell you that there was likely no thinking going on at all? I recently asked my FWH about his thought processes during his adultery. He replied that there were none. He made no analyses or comparisons or thought of the likely outcome (discovery and hurt, huge financial losses.)

I asked him why he and I bought a house together in July 2010, put it in a trust and did all the paperwork for POAs and the works, enjoyed a wonderful 15-day R&R together, when only two weeks later, during Aug 2010, H and OW were in bed together. He had no answer. He said he simply blocked everything else out of his mind and did not think of it. Totally illogical choices. It will never make sense. He's very very embarrassed about that now, but once waywardness starts to take over, it seems to be all-encompassing. He, like some others here, was actually relieved when I discovered it. He was too cowardly to tell me but too reckless to keep his tracks covered.

Waywardness = No Logical Thinking

I'm only 9 months into recovery, so I'm hardly in a place to encourage, but I can offer to you this: the downs are not quite as down anymore. We can get out of them more effectively than before. I think I haven't cried about it in a month, although I now cry very easily over other things.

My FWH, like your FWW, is very remorseful and wants only to have a wonderful and protected marriage now. Your W sounds like she's really on board with you. I keep telling myself--"two to five years, two to five years and for heaven's sake, one day at a time." Because, you know, it's kind of depressing to look at the entire recovery time and wonder if I'm actually going to be miserable the entire time. The good news is that you and your W are likely to have some very good days and build new memories and a solid, loving, PROTECTED marriage.

I know of the 'non-thinking mind' of the wayward spouse. I wrote about it months ago on my SAA thread. I get it.

My wife and her AP stayed together while he and his wife underwent 3 round of in vitro and surrogacy to have their baby. I asked my wife about this. How could she stay with a POS who carries on a A while going thru this? I told her it makes her look real bad. She said she'd complain to him about this.

Could you imagine this conversation? My wife asking OM how he could continue to persue having a baby in the manner they were doing while in midst of an A? My wife said she was actually hurt. But she stayed for additional 2-3 years with him.

Too funny.

This guy is one of lowest life forms and my wife is guilty by association.

I do know times heals. The meanwhile sucks.

LOL! I'm familiar with this one! My H told me that he and OW went to lunch near their office, and then kissed in the car while driving back. I said "But...anyone could have seen you!! What if one of your co-workers, or even your boss, had been driving back to work from their own lunch and was in the car behind you??? What were you thinking???"

He just looked at me sadly and said "That's just it - I wasn't thinking."

Crazy, numbskull waywards.

Want a big laugh???

At one point, as OM and OMW were looking for surrogates to have their baby, I suggested to my wife she offer to carry it as they were paying big bucks.

How sick would THAT have been if my wife gave birth to her lovers baby using his and OMW's genetics?

OMW is in a real bad way pyschologically, so this would have been something to really put her over the edge. Particularly since in our state the surrogate goes on the birth certificate as the mother. A major issue pre-dday for OMW.

It would have been a monumental issue post dday.

Oh, WOW. Would that have been crazy!

I'm not laughing.
And, sorry Mike, I find it mildly offensive that you were suggesting to your wife that she rent her uterus for big bucks.

Even if this was pre-affair, I still find it offensive.
This attitude about your wife's body (something that could be a money maker) probably did not fill her love bank. Not at all. In fact, I suspect this was probably a love buster. Maybe a big one.

This was way before I realized my wife and he could have made a baby naturally. So irony hit me as funny.

Surrogacy is something that couples do as a last resort and as science has this possible I dont find it in anyway offensive.

Him doing my wife at the same time he spent $100k going thru the processes is offensive. My wife staying with him during this, extremely offensive.

Neither do I find surrogacy in and of itself offensive, and that is not what I said. Re-read my comment.


Agreed.
But this is not a contest.
I was (badly) trying to point out to you that suggesting your wife use her body for money is offensive to me, as a woman, and possibly to her as well.

They were close friends and I suggested it mostly in jest and after the third attempt at getting a surrogate pregnant.

I was just thinking that if I somehow did allow her to do this for them how even more screwed up this situation would have been.

Because your ability to trust your WW is still very low.

Not sure it's trust. She's given me nothing to fear.

It was to needle her. To give her the business. Immaturity on my part.

I also probably and not too vaguely masked wanted more info about her sex life him.

But I do like knowing some things are unique to me and her. That's the truth.

'Same Time Next Year' is a movie with Alan Alda. Its a romance based in fantasy about 2 selfish morons who met by chance while away from their families and continue to meet year after year.

I used to like the movie as it offered married men a fantasy of meeting up with a pretty woman and having a remorse-less weekend with her. And Im sure it gave some married women a fantasy of leaving their no-good husbands for a weekend of harmless romping with a charming successful and good looking man.

There have been a 1000 movies since that have had adultery themes. No doubt.

Its really a horror movie. Only after dday do I see this.

In the same boat--we avoid any A-related movies/shows. I actually used to think "Same Time, Next Year" was romantic. I guess it was because we as the viewer couldn't see the effect on the spouses. We viewed the film as though we were somehow part of the adultery, sort of putting us in the same fantasy fog. Never again!

Your posts on the SAA forum are so helpful and encouraging. Thanks for stepping out in the midst of your pain and recovery. And so happy for your family that your wife is now completely "back."

I apologize to her for the lousy few days and we moved on. Had a nice evening last night.

In effort to soothe any lingering concerns about her feelings toward OM or even the notion that I cant trust her, she made it clear she, too, had decisions upon dday. And she said she took the opportunity that dday afforded her to cleave herself from whatever gripped her into the life she was leading.

She also said in perhaps a little dig at me that should could have chose OM who did call a couple days after dday for "closure" suggesting he'd leave OMW if my wife would leave me.

Now, being a reformed hothead, I rolled with this and accepted it.

Inside, however, this was a kick to the you-know-whats. She means that she could have opted to continue to be this guy's side action? Really? That was a choice?

I listed the things THEY did together to harm a bunch of people that I firmly believe HE orchestrated and she says that she had the choice to make it full time gig? The infractions are many and most of available on my other thread so I wont rehash history. I kept all this inside in effort to continue the recovery.

To even THINK that continuing with this guy, even if she chose to leave me after dday, knowing what we learned on dday is ridiculous. Insane. But so is the cheaters mindset.

Im glad she got caught. It made her a so much better person in everyway. OM's legacy around here: wasted time. My time, my kids' time, and mostly my wife's time. Cant get it back but we are always doing things to no longer waste any more.

I certainly didnt want to imply my wife is a victim.

Reading that last one again tonight I may have suggested she was a victim.

No, it takes two to tango and she never was held by force to be there. I do think he took advantage of a her over time for several reasons. Unfortunately all them make her look so bad at times when I think about it.

So I dont. Or at least I try not to. It does get less and less the thoughts.

I certainly didnt want to imply my wife is a victim.

Reading that last one again tonight I may have suggested she was a victim.

No, it takes two to tango and she never was held by force to be there. I do think he took advantage of a her over time for several reasons. Unfortunately all them make her look so bad at times when I think about it.

So I dont. Or at least I try not to. It does get less and less the thoughts.

I certainly didnt want to imply my wife is a victim.

Reading that last one again tonight I may have suggested she was a victim.

No, it takes two to tango and she never was held by force to be there. I do think he took advantage of a her over time for several reasons. Unfortunately all them make her look so bad at times when I think about it.

So I dont. Or at least I try not to. It does get less and less the thoughts.

Dude, we heard you the first time!

I've said before: The best way not to have negative thoughts/memories intrude is to bury them in fresher, more favorable experiences. You've been doing that as well as any recovering BH recently.

Id like to congratulate Oscar De La Hoya, former champion boxer.

After a couple of years of dependency on drugs and alcohol, he hit rock bottom and admitted his addiction and unfaithfulness to his wife.

What a great thing.

All those living illicit lives destined to destroy what is closest to them should have his strength to publicly (or least locally to your spouse and family) come clean and look to live cleanly.

Dont know the details of all his activities, but I will read the book someday.

It takes strength of character and most cheaters and drug users have none.

I really believe the greatest of our heroes are those who have been to depths of dispair and pain yet have the courage to admit the problems and ask for help and forgiveness.

Oscar is real hero.

What bothers me is that OM told my wife at some point that I would never leave her if they got caught. She said she doesnt remember when he said.

He should die a fiery death. Sorry. Hes got a 2 yr old and thats not nice.

Ugh. Mike, I still occasionally deal with this too. Thing is, he does deserve a fiery death. He doesn't seem repentant. I told OM 2 that one day his kids will grow up and I will be there to tell them what he is really like.

Truth is, I won't, but he doesn't need to know that. :-)

CV