After re-reading my previous post I realize I should have stuck to following one of the books not her IB. Oh well, live and learn.

Although it's understandable you would want your FWW to take the lead in MB, tt doesn't truly matter who takes the lead in learning more about MB as long as you both eventually get on board. I read SAA on my own and when my FWH was ready, he also read it...on his own.

We read HNHN and LB together, sitting on the couch, a couple of pages at a time. We would discuss the material and apply it to us. We made sure the time of reading and discussing was always pleasant. Sometimes that was a struggle, but there was just no point in allowing the time to get nasty while we rehashed ugly past behaviors. We agreed that it once existed and what are we going to do about it now.

We also did our questionnaires at the same time. It helped by keeping us both accountable.

The books stay next to the couch and every night or every other night, one of us will pull out the book and ask if this it's okay to read a bit aloud.

Let's get BOTH of you reading the SAA and HNHN material.

Then, you BOTH will see the damage and possible recovery in your marriage. It will give both you and her the dignity to continue.

Independent behavior is killing the marriage. I wonder how much of that existed before dday?

She doesnt sound like she is trying too hard. Leaving for a week away (for any reason) without you is saying a lot.

Her not coming back filled with remorse and willing to do whatever to make it work is rough. Saying she entitled to IB going forward is a slap in the face.

Id let her know your expectations within the MB concepts otherwise youre ready for some of your own IB.

Set a timetable to stop being her whipping boy.

Reading the books together is what we eventually agreed to (probably not enthusiastically on her part).

IB had been growing for both of us until she told me she was unhappy. I tried to change at that point, but her IB continued (got worse?) up until dday. She thinks I want to eliminate IB to control her, and I hope the book (and her coming out of the fog) will change that perception (this is why I should've focused on reading the book in our conversation last night and not her IB).

Why are you reading books togehter in Plan A with an unenthusiastic WW? Are you trying to leapfrog straight to recovery?

I just took this comment from the Plan A thread that was bumped recently.

Plan A will not work for you if you go in to it with

ANY EXPECTATIONS

that you
will
should
could

get YOUR own EN's met....

that's is the formula for failure...

set up to fail by the BS....

I have said it a hundred times...

PLAN A must have a time frame for ending BEFORE it begins....

so that the person entering it...realizes that they will be giving and doing things that go against...

societies advice...drop em dump em slam em....

friends and family who love you and CAN NOT stand to see you hurt.....

and even your gut instincts....IT'S NOT FAIR... that I the BS do this when the WS doessn't deserve it...

again and again and again...

the deep seeded rationalization it takes for a person to engage in an affair...

is the complete compartimentalization of reality
and has been building in their thought long before the affair 'officially began"

you must
must
must...

be willing to accept that the BS has been mentally villified to
excuse
justify
and
rationalize affair actions.......
PLAN A is allll about and in my opinion....

opening up communication
in tiny tiny avenues

always giving the WS exactly what they don't EXPECT

this is NOT door matt behavior....but like PEP once BRILLIANTLY concluded...

a WELCOME HOME MATT
love that cerebral picture....

you know what exactly feeds in to the WS justification...

behaving in a way that gives them the weapon to aim at you...

PLAN A is not grandiose fix it now
PLAN A is not about addressing deep marital issues....
that is also set up to fail as the WS is in total
justification mode....

Your wife has villified you. She expects you to make life hard for her. Plan A is about meeting her needs and showing her how amazing you are. Read Pep's carrot and stick of Plan A too.

Dont be a doormat - be a welcome home mat
Use carrot (needs meeting) with stick (exposure)
Bust open her delusions about you - show her that you are willing to meet her needs
dont expect her to help you recover the marrriage yet

Set a date for the end of Plan A - the date when you will go into Plan B.

indiegirl - Maybe I'm confused, but I thought plan A & B were only if the affair is active or the spouse is unwilling to work on the marriage? I am fairly confident that the A is over (I did question this for a day or 2, but believe this was the stress of dealing with her parents). She also has agreed to at least attempt to implement MB principles (although, somewhat reluctantly). Do I need to plan A then B until she is enthusiastic about trying MBs?

I havent done recovery so I am hoping the vets will chime in here. It just sounds a bit like you are trying to run before you can walk.

Theres also a strong poss that the A is ongoing - fairly confident is not confident. She still sounds pretty foggy.

Ill bow to the vets here, but I would snoop like a bloodhound, prepare to expose if anything is found.




Its just that your past posts havent read at all like she is willing to be honest or to work on things. Only that she doesnt want to divorce. This could be nothing more than that she is just a bit withdrawn however...

I would continue snooping as you can be sure that she isnt cake eating and carrying on her affair

Im not saying dont do MB stuff and questionaires etc,. Just that if you are still in Plan A phase, meet her needs and not expect your own to be met to demonstrate what she will be missing and to bust up any villification of you she has built up in her mind.

"I am fairly confident that the A is over"

What on earth is this? Kill this A. You can't do one single MB recovery thing until this happens.

For Pete's sake where is the NC letter written by your wife, approved by and then mailed by you to kill this A?

What of full exposure?

Where is exposure on this thread?

Nomore, I don't know what your goal is, here. You contradict yourself from one post to the next. Heck, sometimes you contradict yourself within the same post!

Look at what you've said. This is what you've given us to work with:
and then you immediately say
Next up:
But you show a marked lack of commitment to this when you say with a healthy dose of this:

Do you see a theme, here? If not, I've got more for you:
CelticVoyager asked you if she had answered all of your questions to your satisfaction. Your response?


And the capper? Then you admit that you 'couldn't' go because you didn't want to. Good Lord, man - if I was trying to recover my M with an unfaithful spouse, and he had to go somewhere to handle a family emergency for a few days, I'd be packed and waiting in the car before he'd even had a chance to tell me where we were going. No WAY would I be apart from my spouse before we'd even begun recovery! For all you know, she took OM with her and they stayed in a hotel while she was handling her 'family emergency'!

Can you see where a person might come to the conclusion that you are not enthusiastic about doing the work required to get out of your apathy and get this marriage back on track?

You originally asked what you need to do to get through 'withdrawal' faster. I would submit that you need to enthusiastically get on board with recovery. The cornerstone of Marriage Builders recovery involves action. Start the action of recovery and your feelings will follow. So far I have seen next to NO action of the part of either of you.

And Surfer is right - where is the exposure? DID you expose the A to OM's wife? You need to do so post-haste. You continue to say that you can't be sure the A is over. The chance is good it is not. Exposing this to OM's wife is your fastest horse to making sure the A is dead.

Where is the NC letter? Did she write one that you approved and then YOU mailed to OM? Writing a no contact letter is an ACTION that is done immediately in order to show commitment to the betrayed spouse and to confirm the end of the A. Did you require her to do so?

Did you watch the video that Pepperband so thoughtfully linked for you? It doesn't get easier than clicking on the little arrow on the middle of the video screen. Have you found the time to watch it yet??

You will more than likely NOT recover your M with this dismissive, wishy-washy approach that you're taking.

Are you ready to get serious with recovery, or do you not have the time?

Well, since every one is concerned that the A is still going on (and focused on that) let me give you some more information.

She switched jobs because I suspected something, but continued to contact him. I found a bunch of letters between them admitting to a lot more than I suspected. I exposed to OM's wife (mentioned this back on page 4), and implemented surveillance in every place possible. She is now being open and transparent with me. I believe they have not had contact since this (see page 2 for why I keep saying "believe it's over" not "I'm sure it's over"). He has switched jobs, too; and through snooping I have discovered that my WW does not know where he currently works.

I still have not watched the video. I was hoping to watch it with my wife, but she is not enthusiastic about it.

Yes, I screwed up, I know. I have admitted to this a couple of times now. Let's move on.

maritalbliss - Yes, I can see this, and it is frustrating for me, too. I am all over the place. I have said it a couple of times that I'm having trouble finding hope for a future with her, but I do care about her.

If I can recover with the kind caring person I married, absolutely.

The ref is making a "T" with his hands calling for a timeout.

Lets take a deep breath, again.

NMP, your emotions are preventing you from clarity. Understandable, just take a look at the first 10 pages of my thread. I was out of control. I managed to irritate nearly all the fine folks trying to get you in the best place mentally to pull your marriage together.

Get your hopes and dreams in focus, friend.

Once you know what you want, you can tell us and we'll all know. Because right now, I dont think you know what you want to do.

Youve been here for just over 2 weeks and you havent moved an inch forward. Your wife is cementing her feelings for OM which Im sure all of us are seeing except you.

You are spending too much prescious time hoping her fog breaks and it doesnt look like it is. Either you start to chip away at her fog or you dont.

You wanting her back and ultimately forgiving her doesnt make you weak. It makes you look awesome. She'll forever know despite her complete attempt at destruction, you are stronger now than ever. THIS IS WHAT MB DOES.

What we see is someone not working on their marriage. You WW definitely sees this too. So either let her go and you find another person who potentially can break your heart, or get going to show her the way. Remember she's blinded right now by stupidity. Help her see.

mike

No. Nonono. Either you're in, or you're out. You need to personally commit, here, nomore. That's what I'm talking about! Don't make this decision based on whether or not your WW will or won't become the 'kind caring person' you married - make it based on what YOU want!

I'm looking for something a little more along the line of "YES! I am committed to recovering my marriage and better it a fantastic one, and I'm starting on that right now! I'll be back in half an hour, right after I watch the video that Pepperband linked."

And then watch that video! ACTION, nomore, ACTION.

NMP,

If I may be so bold to second what marital is saying...as she emphasized this to me, several times:

You have to decide whether you're 'all in' or not, and do what's necessary -- with NO guarantee it will save the marriage.

After all the hurt, a scary proposition.

This I know: by doing so, by going 'all in' months ago, I became the hero my wife and family needed, and a stronger man, father, husband going forward.

Don't think my wife didn't notice -- to this day she thanks me for saving her and our family, doesn't want to lose the man I've become, and she still references it for being a factor in clearing her own fog, seeing my actions once I decided I was pro-marriage and would fight for us.

Thanks.

HFD-Fonzie would say Exact-a-mundo.

I would've never believed it..I remember marital, Delta also, I think, describing how some WS's simply cannot end it on their own, and my wife was waiting for me to be her hero, and would be grateful, and literally thank me for exposing, etc.

Darn if they weren't correct...to have my wife thank me, yes, thank ME for saving her...expressing there is no way she'd 'let me loose' for another partner seeing the man I am now...incredible.

Thanks.

Its got to be exhausting to live such an existence maintain lies and the SSL.

My wife certainly was relieved to have it over. Its sad to hear one's wife is stuck in such a thing.

Her complexion has never been better, her self image is completely changed for the better, her general health is improved, and most of all her conscience is clear.

Exposing her actions to her parents, brother, and friends was almost easy for her and something she did with pleasure just knowing it was over.

We've had many tears of joy mixed with tears of regret for time lost.

She has thanked me too for giving her the chance at redemption.

ITA with MSS (except for one thing... Only the 1st 10 pages??)

You need a plan and need to stick to it.

I absolutely agree that I need to make a decision and commit 100%, either way. The problem is this:
should actually read, "If I can recover with the kind and caring person I THOUGHT I married" because I no longer know who I married. Along with the affair, she has admitted to many lies she has been telling me since we met. And I now question who the woman I'm married to is.
1)Is she the woman who is honest but treating me poorly (now)?
2)Is she the woman who was lying to me but treating me well (when we married)?
3)Is she the woman who was lying to me and treating me poorly (in the affair)?
4)Can she be honest with me and treat me well (she has never been this person, but this is who I thought I married and the reason I'm still here)?

If my wife can be person 4 then I am absolutely committed, but I don't want to be married to person 1, 2, or 3 (I know this is not the response you were all hoping for, sorry).

I will watch the video first chance I get, with or without my wife.

Nomore,

These are questions you will need to sit down and talk about with her. Let me tell you the answers I got to these same questions I asked my wife after Dday:

1) "Lying was so much a part of who I was, I didn't even realize I was lying..." In reality it was poor treatment then too. but I came to realize that I lied on occasion to myself and her as well. The hard reality I had to face is that we all lie at times.

2) The answer for me was yes, but not everything was a lie. I had to ask what was real.

3) The hard one, because in a sense we are the sum total of our life experiences. What we do will always be a part of us. The answer for me was yes and no. She lied and is working to not lie ever again in any way. After three years of hard work, she has passed me in this area. She calls me out on things i didn't realize I was even saying
4) Maybe a better question is "can she learn to be honest and develop this as a life pattern, despite the awfulness of the past".

Don't worry about the answer we are hoping for. There is what I call the real answer and the right answer. The right answer is the answer you put on a test to pass. The real answer is what you believe. I'd rather have the real answer because it's honest.

CV