Took w and kids to hs football game last night even though I knew she would hate it. I was right.<P>After the game, she brought my son home at half time, and I waited for my daughter till the end, we talked or tried to.<P>I asked why she seemed so distant this week. Last week when she came over, she would come up and kiss me and hug me. Not this week. Her kisses were pecks and her body language said stay back, she kept her hands occupied, etc. She said she has been thinking alot and is still not sure how she feels about anything.<P>The biggest problem is that we just can't talk about anything, nothing at all. I've had more intimate conversations with strangers. Looking back this has always been our problem. She has always blamed me but I'm seeing its her problem too, she never makes any effort to talk to me about anything except her work.<P>She is also concerned about the fact she can't relax and make love with me unless she has been drinking, something I noticed in just the past year or two but in reality has been around for a long time. We never had trouble when we were dating but we were 200 mile apart and only togther for weekends.<P>After we were married for 1-2 yrs is when the problems started. We did go to sex counseling and all that came out of it was that we both didn't like sex very much and we were lucky we found one another.<P>My w's problem was she very "tight", don't remember the medical term. Meanwhile I'm pretty quick on the draw, not premature but the next worst thing. Carol never complained about it and I was able to satisfy her other ways. I was never really satisfied, but didn't complain too much. There were a lot of times though that I felt "used", that is I got her off and she got me off and we were sone. No real drawn out lovemaking, it was always pretty quick. Now I'm reading into it that she didn't want to make love to me. she was just looking for the sexual release.<P>She said she brought this up to our counselor last week and he said he couldn't help us there, but would refer us. She says she is not willing to go for sexual counseling. She said she didn't have a problem with the om, but I think thats all part of the affair stuff as she never had problems in the beginning with me either(I always had my problem.)<P>So where does that leave us now? We can't talk to one another. Although we went to breakfast on Tues and talked about politics and she said I just picked the opposite side and argued with her. I thought we were agreeing.<P>She really has no feelings at all for me. I guess thats why she can't or won't show any deep remorse to me for what has happened. If you hurt somebody that you don't care about , you give them a I'm sorry and move on. Thats what I feel she has given to me.<P>She says she is also tired of everybody saying what a nice guy I am and that they don't have to live with me. She takes it as she's not. I guess thats the self esteem thing.<P>She is also tired of everybody judging her and asking how could she leave her kids. She said somebody would have had to leave, its just more "acceptable" for the man to move out. Besides, she said, "the kids are doing fine without me!"<P>I really don't know what to do at this point. Is it over, should I just give up and move on. Is it just another downhill curve or is this the flating out at the end of the ride. The thought of 16 yrs going by the wayside just sickens me.<P>Sorry for the long, rambling, vent(even this doesn't help)!<P>

Well, I'm thinking of you. Have you tried starting over from the beginning - at least in terms of your sexual relationship. I know it's a difficult time to even have any type of relationship. During our good times, my H and I began our relationship again. I didn't like sex and he did. He allowed me the time to explore his body and vice versa, like it was the first time seeing it or experiencing it. Sometimes by proceeding slowly you can learn what you have missed in previous experiences.

RWD - It sounds like she is still unsure about how she feels. She is a little evasive about physical contact and the topics for conversation are few, but she doesn't shut you out completely.<P>I don't think it's totally true that she doesn't have any feelings at all for you, she just seems to have been unable to sort things out. Based on my experience with W, this is something that could take years. The question you need to answer is are you willing to wait?<P>Isn't it a bummer to be the blame for everything? Thursday night, I talked to W about the status of things and since she was unsure, I had suggested some alternatives to finalizing the divorce...like a six month trial period, etc. She told me that she didn't want to stop the divorce, didn't want to put it on hold, but wanted the process to continue. Then she said she hadn't made up her mind yet, but a stop or hold was unacceptable. We went to counseling last night and she told us that my offering suggestions as to different action plans indicated to her that I was trying to force a decision out of her either stay or go. I couldn't believe it! <P>Anyway, after counseling, we had a bit of a blow-up last night and I said that I had given up, that the divorce will go ahead as she wants(she still says she doesn't want this yet, but as of last night she is leaning strongly in that direction), that she should move into another bedroom and start cooperating with me on the disposition of the house.<P>She was very angry for most of the night, but woke up this morning friendly and calm after spending the night on the couch. I think that she is more at peace with herself now that she doesn't have to make any decisions. She agreed to sit down today or tomorrow to discuss how we are going to divide the personal property. I also said that I knew the chances were probably zero, but if she did change her mind to let me know. Now I know for a fact that even if she changes her mind, she won't be able to tell me because she cannot initiate discussions like this. I have started every single conversation we have had about how we each feel and the status of the marriage. I can't do this any more, I need someone who can bring things up on their own without my prodding.<P>On one hand, this is all killing me, but at least a resolution is in sight. I told her as far as I was concerned she could start dating OM again as it really didn't matter at this point. Can't do the marriage any additional harm and maybe it will be an impetus for me to start dating also and start getting W out of my head and heart.