Bonjour from France...

Well, I'm a lurker and just want to say that I've learnt quite a bit while lurking! Thank you...

Unfortunately, I found MB too late to implement the plans A and B and now I don't know where to start or even if it's worth starting...I posted on another board and the general consensus was that 'it's over - move on'. Perhaps it is - but I can't give up just yet...

Briefly, WH is probably bipolar or/and borderline. I know a bit about this as one of my daughters has been diagnosed as such...and also, all WH's siblings are in therapy (his sister has a handicap allowance because her bipolar condition leaves her unable to work). He's admitted he has a problem but refuses therapy which will be 'too painful'.

He is impulsive, puts people/jobs on a pedestal only to kick them off three months later. It happens all the time. I don't think he's lasted more than six months in a job because everybody turns out to be 'incompetent'!! He worshipped me when he met me, it was weird. Then I got knocked off the pedestal too...but we stuck together for another 8 years. In fact, I'm the longest relationship he's ever had!

Six years ago, he left me and my children (recomposed family - my children, not his) and went on a three-month hike 'to find himself'. He found an OW instead but it only lasted a matter of weeks.

He went to live with his sister (on the other side of the country) and for two years, he couldn't make up his mind whether he loved me or not. One minute I was the love of his life, the next, I was a manipulative old bag, just like his mother.

He finally decided he did love me and for the next three years, we saw each other as often as we could and made plans to renew our vows etc etc. He didn't move back here to live but that was OK (he has a job there anyway). He's not capable of living with anyone, really - at least, not with three teenagers who have mental health problems. My life has been stressful but it would have been worse had he been here...

Last year, we went on a romantic holiday and made plans for our future. But I sensed something...and checked his email. It had taken me five years to trust him again but I felt there was something not quite right...

And you can guess the rest. He admitted he'd met someone at work, that he loved her - well, both of us - that he didn't want a divorce blah blah blah...then later, it was 'I care about you, you're very important to me, but the love died five years ago'.

So, it's been a year with this OW. He doesn't live with her though - which means they just get to see each other at their best.

If Plan A means being nice to him, up until then I was being nice and thought we were OK again.

If Plan B means going dark, then I've sort of done that too - maybe not completely dark, more twilighty :-) I also wrote him a letter (he kept asking me to be his 'true friend')where I told him I loved him, I was hurting and while he was having an affair, I could never be his 'friend'. Is that a Plan B letter?

I know he tries to find out what I'm doing. He reads my blog (thank you Statcounter) and I know he downloads pics of me. I had to phone him (I just left a message) for a financial matter and he immediately wrote me an email telling me about what he's doing etc and asking what I'm doing and how I am etc.

I'm not going to reply even though I'm crying my eyes out right now. Why does he have to be so nice and friendly as if nothing has happened?

Sorry for rambling. I suppose my question is this:

Do I plan A? Plan B? Or give up?

Thanks for listening...

Welome to MB, Gilly. Just being nosey: are you French? Your English is very good!

What do you want to do? Do you want to try and save the marriage, or do you want to give up?

We cannot tell you what to do. Trying to recover the marriage or letting it go has to be your decision.

So sorry you are here. My suggestion would be to file for divorce AND go into Plan B. It is very unlikely that he will ever change, but you could lay out strict conditions in the Plan B and see if he ever changes. [doubtful] The purpose of Plan B is not to save your marriage [it doesn't] but to protect you from his abuse. The longer you are in a dark separation, the better your mental and physical well being and ability to deal with a divorce.

You can't lose with this plan, because you end up with a) a recovered marriage IF HE MAKES RADICAL CHANGES or b) divorced because he doesn't make radical changes. As it is now, there is NOTHING here to save, except a very abusive relationship from which you need protection.

In your Plan B letter, I would make one of the conditions to commit to this program of recovery {Marriage Builders] and before you ever consider taking him back, make it a condition that he make such radical changes in his lifestyle that a repeat affair would be impossible. I wouldn't list out all those specific conditions in the letter, but just have that in your back pocket in case he ever shows interest.

It is obvious your husband has no idea what it means to be a married person and, as such, is quite abusive to his marriage partner.

Welcome, and sorry you are here.

You have been through a lot.

SO right now, you live on one side of the country and he lives on the other. Why haven't you filed for a divorce before now? What does he claim are his reasons for not doing so? Have you dated anyone else during this time?

Why would you want to save this marriage?

Sugarcane...

I'm English :-) WH is French...

I don't want to give up! I want to save this marriage...but as I've been muddling through this (up and down like a fiddler's elbow, as my mum would say), I haven't been consistent. At the beginning, I sobbed and begged, then went dark, then cracked and wrote to him again, then went dark...I'm all over the place :-)


He wants me to be his friend and I'm afraid that if I do that, he'll think everything's fine and won't need to feel so guilty (he's admitted he feels ashamed and guilty, but that doesn't seem to stop him).

I'm tempted to Plan B, which is what I think I'm doing-ish. I don't have anyone to act as an intermediary though so sometimes I need to contact him. Which isn't a proper Plan B, is it?

Oh no - I don't want to give up...:-)

Sounds like you really want to give it a try and there is nothing to stop you.
Plan A, be the bestest you towards him for a very (underline) short time and prepare for a true plan B and implement it and know that you really have no regrets that you dotted your i(s) and crossed your t(s) as you move into your future.

Having love left for your spouse and wishing it would be different is a good thing. Means you are a heck of a person who was open to recovery.

You can not force him to behave differently, mental illness or not.

You can only control yourself. You can only decide how to act yourself.

If you do work the plans....do it swiftly and with your intellect leading you and not your emotions. Have an end date that is soon for plan A and then an end date for your plan B, when you file for D. I think MelodyLane's suggestion to file for D as you move to B is brilliant. He will know a loving wife has filed from him yk?

Melodylane and Scotland...

Thanks for the replies.

I'm a Christian (and I thought he was too! Ha!) and cannot bring myself to ask for a divorce. Not yet.

But I realize I'm being wishy-washy here. It's scary. I just feel I have to hang on longer.

Not that I'm not tempted to file sometimes - like tonight, now - I want to phone and tell him I can't do this anymore. But I'm not sure yet and would probably change my mind tomorrow. So I'm going to wait.

He's not a 'normal' person - I think that's why I love him :-)

I think I'll go dark - properly this time - and see how I progress. Every time we have contact, I start shaking...the day we have contact and I realize I'm indifferent, perhaps then will be the moment to file.

Am I just a wimp????? :-)

Plan B is going completely dark. And I think if you go into a dark Plan B and get farther away from his abuse, you will have a clearer perspective about your life. You are largely very emotionally driven and unable to see how far down he has dragged you. Plan B allows you to detach emotionally and make more rational decisions about your life.

I would do a real Plan B, starting with a Plan B letter and setting up an intermediary who only passes on absolutely pertinent information. Are your finances completely separated? If not, I would separate in every way possible.

You are not a wimp. Marriage means something to you.
BTW, many people would feel the same whether they were religious or not. Marriage is a powerful commitment in itself.

Reading...

Now I'm confused!

I'd love to do Plan A - I like being nice to him and meeting his emotional needs (actually, I'm not sure what they are!!) but he wants me to be nice and loving with him - that way, he doesn't feel like the 'bad guy'!

Soooo confused....I need to do more reading on MB, I think...

As a Christian you are entitled to divorce. And I wouldn't ask him for a divorce, but file for one in order to give yourself legal protection. That doesn't mean you end up divorced, it can always be dropped if he makes a 180 radical change, but it protects you legally. And if he doesn't change, then you end up divorced, which is best for you. But, you can't use the "Christian" card to avoid divorce, because you have grounds.

Even though your emotions are telling you "NO" to divorce, I would strongly suggest it is time to put emotions aside and start using logic. Your emotions have led you wrong for a very long time, my friend. That practice has been a disaster for you.

He who trusts in his own heart is a fool.... Proverbs 28:26

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Jeremiah 17:9

You have been in Plan A for a very long time, so my suggestion would be to Plan A for about 24 more hours while you take the time to prepare for Plan B.

Melody...

I"ll probably write another letter, then...

I'm dependent on him financially as I only have a couple of low-paid jobs. He gives me money voluntarily (we're legally separated but he didn't want to be forced by law to give me money and silly me said 'ok'...that said, he gives me more than is required by law here). Yes, I know - I'm an idiot (love is blind and a bit stupid!)

Finding an intermediary is a problem. I have no family here, few friends (I'm a bit antisocial these days) and he would refuse to go through someone else.

But I have no reason to contact him anyway and if I do in the future, I'll try and find someone willing to contact on my behalf...

Going dark is definitely good for me. I was fine until I got his email - I thought I was moving on and now I feel like I'm back to square one!

Not so much a learning curve as a learning sqiggle!!

Thank you...

Melody has an excellent plan within the MB guidelines. Try to focus on your emotional health and safety since protecting yourself will protect the family and give the marriage whatever chance it has.

Thank you everyone...

I shall compose my Plan B letter forthwith...

aaaaarrrrggghhh...

You can use someone who lives somewhere else. I am an IM for a couple who live in England, and I live in Canada. It is done via email.

I assume that there is no worries with visitations. Your children can take care of their own contact, ie texts, emails, phone calls, skype.

If you have a legal separation, I don't see much for an IM to discuss with WH.

That being said, you need to find someone who is willing to keep you as naive as possible with regards to what your WH is telling them. They will need to agree to filter for you.

You don't feel right about being WHs friend because it is wrong. He hurt you in horrendous ways, and now you are supposed to be all nice to him?

I agree that it is time for you to get into a dark as night Plan B.

Scotland...

I was a bit puzzled about the need for an IM - we don't really need to discuss anything. I only contacted him because he put money in my account twice by mistake and I know he's got money problems at the moment. I still can't think of anyone who could be a go-between but I'm working on it :-)

Whever he contacts me, it's to find out how I am and to tell me about his work/walks/health etc. I always was a sympathetic listener so if I stop being one, that might help. He keeps saying he thinks about me every day, he puts 'lots of kisses' at the end of his emails and it drives me NUTS!!!

He also reads my blog often and although I rarely write personal stuff on it, it's a way for him to 'keep in touch'. So I'll never be completely 'dark', I suppose (and I'm not going to stop writing on my blog for him!)

I'm writing a Plan B letter at the moment but the idea is quite scary. However, I know it's best for me. The most difficult thing will be to stop myself checking the stats on my blog to see when (and from where) he's visited. It's become a sort of obssession!

I need to get a Life...:-)

I would think that the blog should go. I am sorry. It is too tempting for you to check and he will see what you are up to. That can't happen. I don't know where you blog, but can you make it private? One where you control the people who have access to it?

You can use someone who is a friend somewhere else. You should try to avoid your parents, and his family. Brainstorm.

Also, when you have that Plan B letter ready, throw it up here for people to help edit it. I used the Plan B letter in SAA almost to a T and still had people suggest things to change.

Hmmmm - Blog versus Marriage? Tough one...:-)

I need the blog though - I'm a writer and my articles have been published in magazines...my blog is also a platform (I write books too - well, one so far - second one 'in progress' :-)).

If there were a way to block him, I would - must check...

I've been trying to find your story - so many posts on here! Are you still in Plan B? I see you registered in 2009...

Anyway, thanks so much for taking the trouble to reply...I really appreciate your advice :-)