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#2543120 09/11/11 07:36 PM
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Here's a quick rundown. I've suffered severe depression, neglected my marriage, tried to repair but by that point she wasn't aware of my efforts. because of this she entered into an affair. I became aware of the affair two weeks ago.

I have been on the roller coaster since. I did my soul searching and have committed to fixing it if I can. She has said shes into it also. She loves me, is still in love with me, and would like to try.

Here's where were at so far. Shes ceased contact. asked me to block the OM from the phone. We have spent most nights talking about emotional needs of each other and where we lacked in the past.What we came up with was. I was dealing with my demons alone and trying to be the strong husband, she thought i was checking out. I thought she didn't care. I tried to give her what she needed, but it wasn't enough. I had recently became aware of her distance and had started to give her more. she had already checked out.

Now we are at an impasse of sorts. I think our discussions are productive. We have worked to and through most of our major issues. I even gave her this site to read to help her with some of the issues. I have committed to working through this thing. There are still wounds but they are healing. I know i can get past the past and onto the future. She is stuck on what was making her not happy. She says that she wasn't unhappy. She says that she wasn't happy enough. She says that she has no feelings for the OM but still thinks of him. She says that she knows that he can't love her like I do, can't give her the love i can. Then she says she thinks we should separate for a time so that she can see if I make her happy. This seems counterproductive to me. I want to give her what she needs to heal, but im not sure this would help. Marriage is compromise.

Please respond with advice and/or resources on the separation question if you can. What are some other things we can work on. Or tell us we are idiots and that we should have never bred. I have thick skin.

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Originally Posted by makingitrite
Then she says she thinks we should separate for a time so that she can see if I make her happy.

Hi makingitrite, welcome to Marriage Builders. You are in the right place. And you are correct, a separation would be counterproductive. You can't very well fix the marriage if you are not there. I am sorry to tell you the reason she wants to separate is because she is either still in contact or wants to resume contact. I would strongly suggest you do some super sleuthing to make sure contact has ended.

Is the OM married and if so, does his wife know? And has ALL contact - I do mean ALL - ended? Does she EVER see or speak to the OM? Does she look up his facebook, email, anything? Because ending ALL contact has to happen before you can even think of recovery.

Once contact has ended, you should follow the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. Most marriages do not ever recover from affairs, they limp along in a crippled state and are more vulnernable to an affair afterwards than before. You don't have to be like that at all. You have a chance to create a passionate, romantic AFFAIR PROOF marriage if you use this program.

And the reason she had the affair was because she has poor boundaries around men. Until that is addressed, you run a high risk of this happening again.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Welcome to MB...

Is your wife reading this thread too????


Typically when a wayward wife asks/demands "space" and wants to separate it's because the affair continues (or has resumed) and the wayward needs privacy to continue in their wayward ways. You CAN NOT fix a marriage by separating. Separation is a step towards divorce. If she wants "space" clear her some space in the basement or garage but don't agree (or fund) a separation of any kind under the illusion it's helpful.

Who's the OM? Is he married? Who knows about the affair?

Also...it's not your fault.

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Originally Posted by makingitrite
. Then she says she thinks we should separate for a time so that she can see if I make her happy. This seems counterproductive to me. I want to give her what she needs to heal, but im not sure this would help. Marriage is compromise.

Separation increases the odds of divorce and makes it easier for her to resume/pursue her affair. If she wants to separate, I would make her do the leaving and not allow her to take any children/property without a court order.

But more importantly, if the OM is married, I would pick up the phone and inform his wife. Without forewarning your own wife.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders:
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"I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.

Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings."
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Some more info for you.

OM is not married. No help there. He has no consequences to his actions....other that a right hook.

She has had no contact. Has been completely honest with me about all things. She has had chances to contact over the last few weeks and hasn't done so. He lives away from us in her home town. She has visited. I snooped and I'm pretty good at that. She has informed me every time he has tried to make contact. She has told me when she thought to contact him and didn't. She realizes that shes not attached to him , but attached to the emotional needs he filled. She doesn't want him and realizes what she did was wrong.

She is still confused as to what we are going to be in the future and thinks that the separation will make her appreciate me more.

I feel i can handle my issues. I want to help with hers.



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Welcome, makingitrite. I'm so sorry you've had to find your way here, but you've come to the right place.

First of all, I am amazed by this:
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Then she says she thinks we should separate for a time so that she can see if I make her happy.
So...you're supposed to be APART to see if YOU can MAKE her happy?? Common sense says that making your marriage a healthy one needs to be accomplished by being TOGETHER.

It's YOUR responsibility to MAKE her happy?? Does she have nothing to do with her own happiness? You're supposed to deliver happiness to her?? crazy Does that make any sense to you at all? Because it doesn't to me. crazy What else does she want, a pony??? faint

I suspect she is still in contact with OM. I am quite certain the A is still going on.

Who is this scumbag? Is he married? Of course you will need to inform his wife about his disgusting activities with another woman. Even better, since your WW is aware of this site she can read my words: "Call this poor woman and tell her about your disgusting behavior with her husband."

DO NOT SEPARATE TO RECOVER YOUR MARRIAGE.

Last edited by maritalbliss; 09/11/11 08:01 PM.

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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by makingitrite
She has had no contact.

And how have you been able to determine this?

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She has informed me every time he has tried to make contact.

And how is he contacting her? When he contacts her that is considered broken contact. Every time he contacts her puts her back to Day 1 of recovery.

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He lives away from us in her home town. She has visited.

Again, how was this determined? Do her parents live there and have they been informed of the affair? What about your kids? Do they know?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Sorry for the delay, I went to bed.

Without being a PI, I guess I can never be sure that she is 100% honest in her forthcomings with the affair. She has told me that he tried to contact and she didn't reciprocate. I know this is fact as

My biggest issue right now is determining if I should give her the room to "figure things out" or not. I know that in my mind that it doesn't make sense to separate. I know that in my mind it can't be worked on from two different physical locations. I know that it will bother the kids to see. That makes sense to me. In her mind she isn't sure that I'm the problem. In her mind, if we are apart, she can sort out what she wants. She asked to be allowed to leave. I'm not going to create that chaos in my kids mind. They are 3 and 6. I I anyone goes it will be me. She wants to separate but expects that I can come over and "hang" with her and the kids. That we can talk then and that we can still spend time together. That we can talk, go out, and spend time together. This doesn't seem like a separation to me.

I've told her that before I can even consider this that she has to come up with what to tell the kids. I can't tell them that daddy needs space or that daddy needs to work out some things in his head, because I'm sure of what I want. I won't lie to my kids.

I know that everyone has their own ways of dealing with issues. She tells me that there are cases where this has worked. Is this her legitimate way of dealing or is it to reconnect win him. Is there any benefits of doing the pseudo separation? Is there something to the if it's meant to be crap that the fairy tells try to sell.

I'm trying to give her what she needs to be able to more on to the steps of fixing our marriage. She's not billing to put any real thought or effort into that until she's sure of what she wants. do I let her figure that out on her own or do I keep reminding her of what she once wanted.


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Originally Posted by makingitrite
I know that everyone has their own ways of dealing with issues. She tells me that there are cases where this has worked. Is this her legitimate way of dealing or is it to reconnect win him. Is there any benefits of doing the pseudo separation? Is there something to the if it's meant to be crap that the fairy tells try to sell.

This is her way of resuming the affair. And I seriously doubt the affair has ended since he is still contacting her. If she were serious about ending contact, she would be cutting off all avenues of contact. She has not done that.

It is not that everyone has their own way of dealing with issues, it is that people who are serious about recovering their marriages, don't separate. People who want to conduct an affair in private do separate. So, it won't work for your marriage, it will work for her affair.

And yes, if she does leave, the kids should be told all about her affair. In fact, they should be told now. To give them false explanations for the tension in their home is to teach them dishonesty.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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You DO NOT leave. This is basically sanctioning what she did and you do not want to do that. Tell her that she can have time away from you to work things out by going to another room. It is imperative to your marriage survival that you stay in the same house.

Time together is the only thing that will heal your marriage. And don't be so quick to blow off the advice you have received. Everyone is telling you no contact must be established and you keep focusing on the should I stay or should I go question. No contact keeps you safe and allows you to heal while she clears the fog from her head. It hasn't been long enough for her to know what she feels about the OM and I don't believe she feels nothing for him.

PLEASE read Surviving an Affair with your wife. This is what my DH and I did in the first two weeks after D Day and it got us talking and thinking in the right direction. It also clarifies emotional needs and explains the most important concepts of no contact, radical honesty, and extraordinary precautions.

I also suggest exposure to others. You may think that because she has "come clean" you don't need to expose, but you are wrong. When my DH told me of the affair the first thing I did was talk to my best friend about it. She and her husband become our strongest allies. Even though he was contrite, my DH had some screwed up thinking at that time and the couples we exposed to helped us get to the right place. Don't suffer in silence. I wasn't ashamed that my DH had an affair because through my reading of SAA I realized that 45% of men and 25% of women have affairs. You are not alone and you are not the problem. Poor boundaries on your wife's part are the problem.


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MIR, are you multi-lingual? If not, I'll limit myself to describing you in English terms - GULLIBLE.

She is still confused as to what we are going to be in the future and thinks that the separation will make her appreciate me more.

Permit me to translate from Wayward, the language of all cheaters:

I'm not sure I've yet got OM hooked enough on me to allow me to throw MIR away yet. I need to spend some additional hi-intensity time with OM, and for that I need freedom from MIR and his pesky, needy kids, so I have to convince MIR that I need my "space" to see where we are. I certainly can pull that falsehood off, as I really do not know "what we are going to be in the future".

We all select ways to fight for decency and integrity from our spouses. Mine would be to answer her desire to seperate with: "On your way out, grab a telephone directory. You're going to need to call a lawyer very quickly, after I do."

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MIR,

....what NG said.

Listen to him, please.

God Bless.

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Originally Posted by makingitrite
My biggest issue right now is determining if I should give her the room to "figure things out" or not.

If she wants some "space" then be a gentleman and clear out a corner in your garage for her. That is plenty of "space."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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makingitrite,

This is very salvageable but you aren't going to make it if you don't listen.

1) Your WW wanting space...

There is no bigger red flag that the A is not dead. You don't seem to be accepting this. You can't put on your recovery hat on yet. You are still in operation kill affair.

You said you are good at snooping but did not give us any specifics. Do you have a GPS and VAR in her car???

2) Separation....

Tell her you are going to fight for your M and family and separation does not work for you. Be firm and please don't be like many BHs who are terrified to anger their WWs.

This message needs to be given to your WW loud and clear. This just enables her foggy thinking. You tell her you will not be leaving and you will not be helping her move (physically or financially) she will not be taking the kids.

3)
Originally Posted by makingitrite
She has had no contact. Has been completely honest with me about all things.

Not so fast, makingitrite! "Completely honest"? Oh dear. You are going to get yourself into trouble if you believe this. You need to keep your guard way WAY up for a while.

Your W is wayward right now and capable of lying & manipulation and most likely will do so until she has had 100% NC for a good amount of time and has de-fogged.


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I hear and understand what you have said. I agree with most. D day was a harsh realization in so many ways. I had to search myself and ask if I still wanted her. I do. ihad to ask if I could forgive her. I already have. I had to ask myself why she did this and what did I contribute to send her in that direction. I have that one figured out. I had all that going before I found this site. It has encouraged me in that I was already doing the things I should be doing.

I came to those realizations pretty easily. I reasoned that I could accept what has happened and move towards repairing the relationship. I have worked on her needs. I have given her my attention. I have talked with her about everything. She has been extremely forthcoming with all details it seems. We have even discussed her feelings for him in depth. That hurts, but I am still her husband, her lover, and friend.I can deal with what I feel and my insecurities in the future. I but as a friend I am wanting to be there to help her through hers. I have devoted myself to trying to fulfill her every need. If it pains me sometimes, but that's OK. I can deal with what I didn't do. I can deal with what he did right. I can deal with the sortid details. What I'm really having trouble with is that it was easy for me to see what I wanted. I think it was easy due to the love that I have for her. It pains me that it doesn't seem so easy for her. I asked her if she wants me, if she still needs me, if she is still in love with me. She says yes. I ask if she wants to fix us. She says she wants to try. Try? I don't do try.

She mentioned time apart from the start. I emphatically said no. I see no good from it. The only good that might come is her missing me and realizing that I am what she needs.

I am still waiting for the commitment form her. She's cooperating in the fixing but not really putting any effort into it. Would she if I was to leave her. Does she really care.. If it was so easy for me to see what I want because of the love I have, why can't she. Is there something there to fix, or is all lost?

I don't want to give up. I don't think I can give up. But really at what point do you realize that there isnt anything to fix. Am I fighting a losing battle?

I know that this is long and sometimes rambling. I have so many thoughts in my head and they seem to pour out at once. Please bear with me as I feel that you are all here to help.


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BTW, you may be wondering: How will I know when my WW is serious about NC?

As you may have guessed by our replies, your WW "assuring" you that she will have NC is MEANINGLESS. Some ACTIONS you will want to see are:

~ willing to take polygraph
~ willing to send NC letter
~ willing to close all avenues of contact with OM (Change phone number, change email, close FB, change job, etc)

This is a good start....


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mir, the basic problem I see here is that your wife is not serious about recovery. She is biding her time either trying to find a new way to reach the OM or she is still in contact. I believe it is the latter. What we do know is that she is not serious about your marriage.

Part of the reason she is not serious is because a) she has been handed unearned forgiveness [bad for her, bad for you, and bad for your marriage] and because you have no plan and no standards. The only way a marriage can recover from an affair is to meet certain conditions and to stick to a plan.

For example, your wife needs to cut off contact with the OM. That is step one. She has not done that. He is still contacting her. She needs to also completely open up her life to you and live a transparent lifestyle that makes it impossible to carry on a secret second life.

I would give her a chance to earn your forgiveness by demonstrating trustworthy behavior and committing to a plan of recovery. If she won't do that, then you don't have a marriage. But she won't do that unless you raise the bar here.

It is up to you to lead your marriage out of this tarpit. Having no plan is a plan to FAIL.

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to settle for a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. never see or speak to the OM again FOR LIFE - send him a no contact letter

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about her affair � passing a polygraph

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.



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You might find this article to be a real eye opener; in it Dr Harley explains how forgiveness should be handled:

Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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She says that she wasn't unhappy. She says that she wasn't happy enough.


I love it! We need to put this one onto the thread of strange things that come out of a wayward's mouth, an instant classic!

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Then she says she thinks we should separate for a time so that she can see if I make her happy.


Already addressed in other's remarks, but I wanted to include that if you do this expect her to file for divorce with your moving out as abandoning your kids. This would be an incredibly stupid move on your part. Unless of course she agrees to move out, give you a legal separation agreement with 100% custody of your kids to you with her paying support. Then you'll find out how necessary a separation is for her happiness.

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Has been completely honest with me about all things.


Are you for real? A WW who is trying to get you to move out of the house and you think she's being honest? She wants you out so she can proceed with her affair unhindered by your presence.


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