I've been on MB for some time, and my long story is outlined elsewhere. Presently, WW and I are separated and living apart. We tend to talk every day, mostly about my daughter. Yesterday, as WW does often, WW begins to put a "guilt trip" on me for leaving, accusing me of being selfish, etc. and saying that I "left" because I couldn't stand being in the family. There is never ANY acknowlegement or reflection on the FACT that WW has at least three affairs to my knowledge, inl. having been pregnant by one lover. It is never, ever talked about, and if I bring it up she explodes in a rage and saying it is all my fault. I did raise it two days ago, acknowledging that perhaps I have done things to alienate her, etc., but the she MADE the decision not once but three times to violate her marriage contract. She refuses to own this decision. It just makes me wanna holler. . . I strongly believe that if she really wants us to be together she needs to talk with me about this. I do not see any resolution without it. Any advice on discussing this is greatly appreciated. If it is already on the boards elsewhere, guidance on where to look is appreciate.

So if you are already separated, why are you not in Plan B?

Everytime you talk to her without her trying it is going to give you pain.

Plan B is to protect you from her abuse.

Hello and welcome to the best place to be in your circumstances.

Outlining your story would be helpful still if you wanna spot on advice.

Are you separated because of her affair and does your D live with you? Is your WW currently in an affair?

Last year you were divorcing her. Where are you in this process?

It seems to have been an acrimonious marriage throughout, and now even her method of trying to get you back is hostile. Why would you consider getting back with her, when her difficult behaviour does not seem to have changed?

JrDuck, I would divorce her. There is nothing here to save. A person who has had 3 affairs and refuses to even admit it or engage in recovery is dangerous. There is nothing here to save. You should get this toxic user out of your life.

As usual, ML comes straight to the point.

The divorce at this point is not moving forward... with the economy the way it is I am out of money to proceed with anything that would involve costly litigation.

I would find a way to do it cheaper then, and by all means, go into a very dark Plan B.

And we do live in a fault state, so proof of adultery would cost her in terms of any claim to alimony, division of assests, etc., but short of spending money on a PI it is hard to prove. E-mails, etc. may or may not be admissable depending on how they were obtained.

I really just feel like saying, "Look, I understand that you want to be together and to have our family the way it was. But it is not going to be the same. I understand you are angry that I left, but I also feel it is unfair to lay 100 percent of the blame for our family breaking up at my feet. My job and career have made things challenging for you and I acknowledge that, but they do not explain why you made the bad decisions you did. They are your decisions and yours alone. I had nothing to do with them. Until you can accept your responsibility for your own decisions and we can talk about why you made them, I see no reason for us to be together. In the meantime, I hope we will continue to work together to make our DD feel secure and happy and to know both her parents love her."

I wouldn't even bother with that. I would just drive that ship home and get it done.


I wouldn't say anything to her. I would change my locks and send her a MODIFIED Plan B letter that EXCLUDES any future hope of reconciliation. I would not work with her AT ALL raising your daughter. Rather, find an intermediary that will pass all pertinent information. A much better plan is PARALLEL parenting that cuts her out of your life. You are a better parent without her in your life because she is so toxic.

Been here over 3 months and this is the first I heard this advice.

Your multi-cheating wife has emasculated you to no end. We read it in your posts. When you protect the kids and yourself, you'll regain your manhood. Her continued beat down of you needs to end.

Surprisingly, despite all the **** that has gone down and all the acrimony, we have been able to be quite cooperative and civil on talking about issues related to my daughter. The problem is we CANNOT talk about things related to us, and every once in awhile she will bring it up and seemingly put 100% on my shoulders. Of course, I don't buy it. I've firmly told her that she is responsible for her own bad decisions.

I have learned a lot over the years, mostly from my mother who in the latter years of her marriage had to deal with my father who became an alcholic. Basically, her mantra is "I didn't cause it! I can't cure it" I can't control it!" My WW does - I am pretty sure - suffer from some sort of mental illness - whether it is bi-bolar disorder, BPD or something else would need to be determined - and I am on other boards related to this. So, when it comes to her behavior, I can tell her what I will and will not accept, but beyond that making the change is her responsibility.

So, at this point we are not in physical proximity to one another and the only contact we have is phone and Skype. We talk about DD or finances, but not much more. Whether or not she is in another affair is not my concern. I do not ask. I do not care.

Regarding my initial post, I was venting after a particularly frustrating day.

ML, out of curiosity and just musing, how does one change the locks to keep WWS out? Here in VA, if you do this your WWS can call the police and will be escorted back in - w/o a court order you cannot legally keep them out or a jointly owned property.

It would be better to do everything you can to neatly divorce her. Then, you can go on with your life. What if you meet someone who treats you like you always dreamed you would be treated by your wife? What do you have to offer her while you are still married? And since you live in a fault state couldn't that be used against you?

If this woman is anything like you describe, she is toxic indeed. You are a normal person. You think in your normal way of thinking: "If she could just understand what she did, how it hurt me and how it was wrong..." That's why you feel compelled to explain to her the how and why of what happened.

The bad news is:
She does understand perfectly well that she is the culprit here. But if she would acknowledge that, she would have to take her share of the blame. It is far easier for you to lay the blame on you and have you squirm and justify yourself for having left the family, when in fact SHE did. She is just manipulating you. Sadly, people who are like that, hardly ever learn from their mistakes. They are miserable and take others down with them.

You will see, once you find a woman with a healthy spirit to be with, how easy it can be once you have someone next to you that pulls her side of the wagon. Please rescue yourself, so you can be a good father to your child and so that it might have the chance to see how a healthy family functions.

Take care,

Happyheart

Thanks Happyheart. You know, a few weeks back I happened on a podcast of "This American Life. . . " - one of my favorit NPR radio shows. It was a program called the "Sanctity of Marriage" and one episode was a story about a man whose daughter wished for years that her parents would get divorced. There were some parts of it I could readily identify with, especially that of what it takes to stop caring for an emotionally or mentally unhealthy person. He likened to caring for a spouse with cancer, saying you don't give up on them just because they are sick. However, I guess people do all the time. If anyone is interested in the program, it is here: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/261/the-sanctity-of-marriage?act=3

I absolutely believe in the sanctity of marriage.
There are some situations though that seem hopeless. Of course you care for a person with cancer... as long as they do not try to put cyanide in your coffee.

Of course you care for her. But your care and love cannot love her back to being another person. Maybe boundaries help, but in the end it is her personal decision to behave as she does.

Here is my story in a nutshell http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=159672&Number=2389510#Post2389510

Wish you the best. Thr road to happiness isn't easy though...

Happyheart

"There are some situations though that seem hopeless. Of course you care for a person with cancer... as long as they do not try to put cyanide in your coffee."

It is not illegal in any state of the union to change your own locks. And if she has a problem she can get a court order to get back in. [she won't go to the trouble] And if it goes to court you can go there and explain WHY you don't want to see her. [all about her affairs]


And she wouldn't have the ability to bring it up if you were in Plan B. It would be much better for your daughter if you went into Plan B an set up an intermediary.

Right, you must accept you can't change her and move on. You can change YOU. As with an alcoholic, any person who lives with an alcoholic needs to divorce him. That is the best thing for the alcoholic and for the spouse. And that is what you should do too, my friend.

JrDuck, but your wife is not sick. She is just wayward. And as such, she is toxic to you. There is no marriage here to save. Why drag it out?

Divorce her and yes you can change the locks. If she doesn't even live with you, why are you worried about it? It is not illegal to change your locks.

Staying married to your WW subjects you to much financial and legal harm if nothing else. You sound like you are on Plan Hope/C...not good.