No, listen to Sugar, SusieQ and Maritalbliss. Me. Itsatough.

You are being gaslighted and trickle-truthed. That means lied to + some more lies.

What did his wife say? Can you relate the conversation to us?

I'm not sure how I'm being trickle-truthed. These were conversations I was never meant to see. The one I am talking about in particular was with her gay friend who is also in the midst of an affair. She was not afraid of being judged I assure you.

His wife was taken aback. She was in shock for most of the conversation. I just told her what was up and that was it. She said she would be calling me back for more info and to stay in touch.

erut,

Kudos on the progress and kudos on exposing.

I very much doubt you have the full truth on the extent of their physical involvement. Regardless, it was a major betrayal even if it wasn't full out sex (which I don't believe for a moment).

I'm not a fan of polygraphs, but I do think you need to snoop more or get a full confession out of her. You don't have an affair like this and simply make out and dry hump.

Seriously, erut, think about this for a moment. Would two adults who have the hots for each other really just dry hump and make out when they've had full taste of the forbidden fruit with their spouses?

(not forbidden for you in a marriage, of course)

Just telling you to remove the blinders some more. They're starting to come off and I believe you see that there is a lot of truth in what we say.

Yay! I remember when this happened to me. I stopped allowing myself to be gaslighted and got serious. It's a great step.



You have saved this woman from certain doom now that she is armed with the truth. Well done you.


There is lots more to do, but I like the change in attitude.

Any response from your wife yet on EXPOSURE?

If she becomes irrate, raging, head spinning around, eyes popping out of head, be REASSURED this is a natural response.

Keep us posted on your wife, No Contact, and everything else because the lies are in the details and between the lines.

Tough~

Update time again.

Since exposure and everything, things have been going really well. My wife is going through withdrawals, but we are having a lot of UA time and have really been talking out our feelings. I let her know that just because I felt like we were connecting again didn't mean that I was going to let up on her. She said she understood that she would be on a short leash for a long time (she said years) and she doesn't blame me. She hasn't been angry, I think because she feels very ashamed. The anger will probably come later.

We did talk about the sex thing some more. She swears up and down that it didn't happen, but she's been very direct in answering all my questions about the gritty details. I'm a bit unsure if she's telling me the truth on the full extent of things, but I'm comfortable that if I keep digging it will all come out if there is anything remaining.

BIG UPDATE!!!! This morning we woke up to an email from OM in WWs inbox. It was an NC letter (complete with some of the worst grammar and spelling I've seen in some time). Currently, we are sitting down to write her NC letter. For the first time in a long time, I feel like everything is going to work out. I feel like we're a couple again. It's nice. However, none of this is going to lessen my resolve on being in control of this situation.

I would tell your wife that while you're willing to work together to rebuild your marriage you need the whole truth now, that if you find out anything different later it will end in divorce, so time to come clean now. Tell her you want her to take a polygraph, see what happens.

Erut, I said several pages ago that it was almost certainly a physical affair, and since have had many other posters say variations of the same, the reason why you're getting such a united response is that we have seen this many times before. People like to think their situations are unique, but the fact is that most affairs follow the same tawdry path and the WS and AP say and do the same things. Wish I had a dollar for evry BH that wanted so desperately to believe the wife was telling the truth about no sex only to find out the truth later.

Many times when you schedule a polygraph, often you start getting more details before they sit in that chair. WS who flat out refuse to take one still are lieing to you.

I thank you all for the concern, but I'm not asking my wife to get a polygraph. I am ok waiting for her to tell me herself. Even if that's a few years. Like I said, I am pretty resolute when it comes to handling the emotional blows. That's one I am prepared to take down the road if it occurs, but I am not someone who dwells on the unknown. I will continue to dig, poke, and prod, and she will eventually tell me if anything happened. I will handle it like I do everything else... I will deal with it as it comes up and not before. I know many of you will disagree with this method and I understand why. That is fine.

Once again, thank you all for the great advice and tough love.

erut, one of the first steps for recovery is to get all the truth out NOW so you can move on. If there are unanswered questions, you will wonder and wonder until you do get those answers. And prodding and digging for months and years, prevents your marriage from recovering.[and yes, you will prod and dig because you will have no peace until you know everything] The full truth should come out NOW and should never be brought up again. You won't move onto the next step of recovery until you have the truth. You can't possibly recover if the OM and your W have secrets to which you are not privy.

What happens is that every little tidbit you dig out takes you back to Day 1 of recovery. But because you had to dig it out and because it was withheld, the wound is compounded with her dishonesty and cruelty. Living with a spouse who trickle truths you is usually WORSE than the initial discovery of the affair. It is an even greater breach of trust because it is adding more lies to the mix. We have BS's who have actually suffered post traumatic stress disorder because of this.

The path you are taking is to sign on for a death of a thousand cuts. Getting the full truth is not optional and it is not negotiable, because in order for your marriage to recover, you have to know everything. I don't know what it will take to get the full story, usually just scheduling a polygraph brings out the truth, but somehow you do need to get it. Your resentment will grow into a very ugly thing if you do not.

I will leave you with some comments of Dr Harley made to a woman who was having nightmares because her wayward husband did not tell her the full truth:

here

Well, as the old adage goes, you can lead a horse to water....


Erut, if you think that you can just get past this now without significant changes in your marriage that both you and your wife have to make, she'll cheat on you again because the set of conditions and circumstances in both of your lives that led you to this point have not changed. This site is not just a quick fix or a bandaid that you slap on a cut for a few days, this is a complete change in lifestyle.

I wish you luck, however I fear we will be seeing you again in the months to come. I won't post again since it seems I have nothing more germane to add at the present.

I think you should read mirrormirror's thread where his wife takes the poly. She was so remorseful and truthful that SHE insisted on taking it more so than he did.

The part where she unflinchingly tells him everything, then gets the all clear on the poly, is so moving. She saw the need to back up her words with actions.

It was important to her to not have any doubts hanging out there because she wanted to move on from that first stage of recovery, and on to the next. She wanted to uproot the weeds, so they could get on with creating the garden



But she will tell you herself, prior to the poly. Gladly and completely, hopefully. I find your attitude confusing. Do you think that you have to march her down there at gunpoint or something? Put her on a ducking stool? The point is to allow her to have enthusiasm for this.

Why would you actively go out of your way to encourage her to remain secretive with you for YEARS?

Dont you want to get started on recovery with a clean slate?

You seem to think unaided and unproven honesty, where doubts remain, is preferable to proven honesty - why?

She needs to be jumping up and down, seeking ways to be able to prove her honesty to you. It should be very important to her that she get this opportunity to reassure you.

It is not a case of 'forcing' truth but allowing her that opportunity, so she doenst need to fear her word will be doubted forever.

In her shoes, I certainly wouldnt want to be 'prodded' for years.

One of the biggest mistakes that I made after dday 1 is not requiring the poly. After dday 2, I told my H I would be requiring one and he trickled out just enough truth to make me think he was finally being radically honest with me so I didn't follow through with it.

Guess what? He remained wayward, and I recently went through dday 3. He did EVERYTHING else, including leave his job, coaching with the Harleys, reading the books, writing out a list of ExtraOrdinary Precautions.

Everything except completely giving up the Secret Second Life that makes affairs possible and becoming radically honest with me = fog never completely cleared.

So often people regret not following through with the poly. I don't think I have seen anyone regret doing it.