WXWs are irritating and entitled creatures.

Here's what happened:

Went to get my kids, as I normally do on Fridays. Kids weren't at daycare. Ex had her neighbor watching them, which is the new and unnannounced change to daycare that I wasn't aware of.

Ex decided to change the daycare arrangment we've had for the last 4 years without telling me about the change. Aftercare is now done on a drop in basis.

Well, I called to ask about this and I asked about how this changes her monthly payments to daycare since my CS is calculated based on the old numbers.

I also wanted to find out why the change was made without informing me.

I told her I'd talk to her at the kids' karate class about it.

She explained that she re-arranged her work schedule and is home on most nights when the kids get home from school.

I actually see this positively. BUT.....

She starts to rant about unrelated things since I raised an issue with the fact that I should have been told about the change and that I had a right to see if CS should be recalculated.

What really set her off was that I asked if she would be willing to explore music lessons for the kids now that she'd be home more.

So she goes on an epic rant about my lack of appearances during the weekdays at the kids's karate classes and how I'm not poor and she is and how tough it is to work and take the kids to stuff and how she's mother of the century and deserving of canonization by the Vatican over how amazing a mother she is that she takes the kids to their karate classes and does homework with them.

I listened silently, not really arguing anything with her given that the kids were right there in class.

Her boyfriend, however, decides he wants to puff his chest out and proceeds to tell me that I am not to make any more threats of legal actions and that he's not going to tolerate it anymore.

I decided not to look at him during his posturing and simply stared at the kids class doing their drills. This seemed to irritate him more and he started leaning a closer and raising his voice over the fact that I wasn't looking at him to discuss this. The ex was trying to calm him and telling him that this wasn't the place given that the kids were here.

I decided to simply walk out to my car than let things escalate further.

This makes the 3rd time that either she or her family/bf decide to confront me with gripes at karate.

I've sat silently at every single one since I don't think it's right to argue in front of the kids. Below is a long email I crafted. Opinions are welcome:

You may want to remove your DW's name.

I believe you are going to have to go back to court and get all the violations addressed, and move the visitation into your favor. Absolutely reduce your child support if she has changed child care.

She is gaming you at the moment. She will continue to press your boundaries continuously as this progresses. She is moving your boundaries for you.

No amount of negotiations or talking to her is going to sink into her wayward alien mind.

Your letter is full of DJs to her, and she isn't going to listen. If she has any type of passivity in her, then she will continue to dance this dance with you until she has absolutely exhausted you.

Go active now and let her feel the consequences. Get all your documentation in line, head into court and seek full custody.

I suggest a Plan B immediately and possibly for life.

Go to court...nothing else works from my experience

helpthelostdads-

First and foremost I do a lot of lurking, but I have a lot of respect for you and your take on WW's and always enjoy reading your posts.

Take this with a grain of salt b/c I don't know all the details of your stitch, but from what I recall it was quite the experience. Also I am quite young and do not have children and I am still very early in my own situation w/ my WW. But hopefully I can provide something that will provoke some deeper thoughts.

I think your email says a lot, I think it is crafted well and I agree 100% with your tone and message to her, but it will be lost on her.

You handled the situation IMO as well as you could of especially considering a coward boyfriend/POSOM and that is what he is, always will be, and a WXW that is still a lost/irritating and entitled creature.

And that is the problem. Your WXW still views you as a source of her unhappiness, or conflict in her life and to me that speaks volumes if she is that easily upset. I know you understand there was never a time for self reflection for her and its business as usual. Emotionally you have grown by leaps and bounds. Your WXW never got that message.

It should be about your kids, that should be your number one priority and your concerns are based on that notion

I almost guarantee your WXW has this notion of a reflected sense of self which is a side issue, but if you asked me why she did it and didn't tell you? control? to get a response from you? to test you? I am sure you know why.

You have every right to be concerned about the care of your children and CS, especially if you think the change is for the better or even for the worse.

What is best for your kids? Remove your WXW and POSOM from the picture for a moment and look at that path, what do you see? Perhaps that is the path you should follow.

But you are right I would never tolerate any sort of arguing in front of the kids, it's not necessary and I think you are certainly the better man in not escalating it. But also I think that is a time for you to be firm with her and boyfriend/POSOM since this has happened before. Something like "WXW and POSOM I understand your upset, but I will never tolerate arguing in front of the children this conversation is over" And leave it at that.

You know your WXW better than anyone here. If you think that is the best way to communicate your concerns with her than do what you feel is best. I certainly could and should not say otherwise.

But I guess here is somewhat of a different take and you can blast me for it later.

I do not know how "friendly" you two are or if this is common b/w you two.

Perhaps you two should have a sit down, just you and her. I think it would also be a chance for your WXW to let her guard down a bit, who knows. You obviously still have some emotion left for her and she has a lot for you, probably always will, no one can fault either of you for that. I felt some anger from you when I read your response and rightfully so.

Maybe at this stage it would also say a lot about you and your true concern for the children and allow her an equal voice in it. Again listen to her even if you don't want to.

"You don't show up enough on the weekdays or Karate class"

What is she really saying? Is she literally saying you don't show up enough to Karate class. Or is it she needs you to be more involved? Does her boyfriend live with her? Is he around all the time? Perhaps she realizes that he can't fill that role. Perhaps she feels like she is losing a connection with the kids and that is why she feels the need to be home now at night. Forget that she asked for sole custody.

Her words are saying different now. She wants you to be more involved. Why does she? What is going on in her world? She feels stressed, she feels like super Mom. Right or wrong those are her feelings just as you have your feelings.

She knows her boyfriend is not the father of her children and never will be. She knows you are the better man even if she will never admit it. She made an effort to put him in his place by telling him to calm down and saying to him this isn't the time or place. She didn't have to do that. She knows you love the children. But she has also hurt you a great deal in the past and she knows there is no clear path back to anything she once knew.

I guess who is helpthelostdads? Is he someone who wants nothing to do w/ his WXW no matter the circumstance, "Just say Hi/Goodbye and exchange the kids? Is he someone that wants to be able to communicate w/ her in a friendly manner b/c it will be better for the kids?

What is WXW really saying? To me it sounds like she is hurting. The shots she is taking at you about not being there enough are not personal in nature I suspect, but she doesn't know how to properly communicate that she needs and wants help. She doesn't want her boyfriends help, she wants you, helpthelostdads, she wants you there. Why all of a sudden is it so important for her to be at home for the kids at night? Her rant has some truth in it. But understand it's not all directed at you, you know that. A lot of her statements are her own demons and the consequences that she perhaps is slowly beginning to realize. For example "you're not poor, I am"

What is my response and why is that my response? Where is it coming from?

I know you know you WXW is probably not in a good place and hasn't been for a long time. She is lost, she is resentful and she may never change. And you have every right to push her out of your life as far as possible if you so choose.

But I also see this as an opportunity for perhaps you to reach back out to her. Not in a ex-husband I want to reconcile way, but from a loving position if you are able. From a man who has the capacity to forgive, to truly let go of the past and understand that they have produced children out of love that once existed. No matter how much she has hurt you and no matter how much you may have hurt her. Are you able to accept who she truly is now? And who is helpthelostdad's in relation to all of this?

One thing. Is it not inconsistent for you to chew her out for complaining about things at karate class when that is exactly what you were doing? The point about anyone else doing so (boyfriend) is different and totally valid.

I would also take out all the stuff about how you actually think this was a positive change ( other than the lack of notice). It somehow comes off as insincere given the tone of the rest of it.

But in any net I don't think this letter will achieve what you want it to. I would regard it more as contributing to a paper trail. Keep it short (like under 250 words) and business like.

Keep the letter really short and businesslike.

Just half a page should do. But do put in that her boyfriend harrassed you if you think it might be legally smart to have it in writing

Do not let yourself be dragged down to her level by telling her how she screwed up and how mus better parent you are. This is not an 'I am a better parent/person than you' competition.

I did not read your thread. Is it possible for you to keep away from her, or have a mediator or so?

Stay on course and do not let her know how they can provoke/irritate you. They probably want to.

Happyheart

I agree, keep it short. Give her options, how you can help or at least ask her "How can I help you ?" and you understand.

Keep calm and never show just how irritated you are. Only express how upset you are over certain behavior.

In a calm way you can also explain that here is also a legal option if your court agreements have changed.

1. Cut it down in size. It's way too long. 200 words or less should be a target.

2. Make it a series of statements, not a rant..

3. Remove the "conditional" statements, e.g. "I was actually going to tell you xx but you..."

Guys,

Thanks for the inputs. I normally let stuff roll off my back, but this argument at the class warrants a response.

Finah, thanks for the input, but you're projecting. I would have nothing to do with this woman if it wasn't for my kids. Marrying her was the biggest mistake of my life and I moved on looooong ago from the situation. I only interact because I have to.

As far as confronting her at class goes: The conversation wasn't hostile until her bf showed up. That's when she started to pepper me with questions that had nothing to do with the situation.

I've edited it down with some input from my DW.

Thanks again.

I thought that was the case, lol.

HTLD's

I didn't see your letter so I'll answer your post in two parts on how I would have responded. The first part is the daycare and the child support.

1. Remember, you are former military. Keep that in mind. Learn radio silence when it comes to your exWW. She is expecting you to react a certain way (return her rants and validate her feelings). Your job is to react in a way she doesn't expect and throw her off balance. Basically, get inside her decision loop. When she violates your boundaries, you want to start rolling a small snowball down a hill. She can stop the ball with little effort on her part at the top if she chooses. If she wants to be a Nut Job, the ball gets bigger, and bigger until it is an avalanche that she can't stop.

2. As for the daycare, here's how I would handle it :"That's good that the children are going to their friend's house and staying with you. Can you do me a favor? Just let me know what your schedule is and when you are dropping the kids off just in case there is an emergency." She is subconsciously trying to get a response from you to show that you don't care about the kids and are controlling. You think she did the right thing but acted like a Nut Job by not telling you. Which she did. But you already know she's a nut job.

If you are still seeing the parenting coordinator, just bring it up with the coordinator about her not telling you and let her handle it. If you go for a custody mod in the future, that is when you want to use the info of her not telling you about the daycare. But, make sure you document it with the parenting coordinator. It will show that you are being reasonable about what she did but are getting a neutral third party's view of the overall situation before you blast the X.

3. CHild Support. I went through this last year. With your previous response, you should get some good intelligence on how much she is actually using daycare. There are a couple of things now to consider. Her daycare needs are significantly reduced. Also, since the kids are going to friends, the rates should be much less so she should not be paying the same hourly rates.

4. Run the support numbers and see if it is worth it to file a modification of support. Most support orders require you to notify the other party of any changes in circumstances that could significantly change the support order. Look at how support would change and compare it with your state's requirements for a support mod.

5. If she stonewalls you on the daycare, have your lawyer send her lawyer a letter about the change in daycare and request info on what the daycare situation and costs are.

6. You should now get what you are looking for. FIle a modification based on what the calculator says. If for some reason you still are stonewalled, file the modification, subpoena the baby sitter, 1099's for her babysitting, income tax returns indicating she claimed the babysitting money as income. The babysitter and her husband will be very mad at you and the X. Who cares. They are getting your money.

As for the boyfriend, you are dealing with a boyfriend that has "Save a Woman Of The Night in the Oldest Profession Syndrome". He's just trying to mark his territory.

When dealing with him, think John Dunbar from Dances With Wolves after he is a prisoner with the soldiers. He tells them in Sioux they don't matter to him and are not worth talking to. Don't say this to the boyfriend but keep thinking it. Ignore him. The issue is between you and your X.

Always have a recorder going. I have a $50 Olympus Radio Shack DVR in my pocket at all times around exWW and her POSOM. I also have my Droid X on a clip on my shirt recording video at all times. This will cover your rear.

Next, ignore your X's rants about how you are rich and she is poor. She could have been rich but chose to be poor. Ignore. Your hotter new wife gets to benefit from that now. She's jealous.

As for the music lessons, she may think the kids have too much on their plate as it is. Carefully evaluate the situation and see if it is a battle you want to fight.

HTLD, I wouldn't be discussing anything with your XW in public, I would limit interactions where you are seeking information to email alone. That way you don't give them a chance to manufacture an incident and you have a written copy of everything.

If the boyfriend du jour keeps trying to get a rise out of you, when he asks why you don't want to face him, just tell him you only talk to a$$h*les under a court order.

htld - I do not understand why you are engaging in this sort of conversation with you XWW in the first place. I mean, what part of "divorced" does she not understand? She is finding out now that being a single mom is extremely difficult and, frankly, that it sucks out loud. But as I recall, she's the one who had the affair. Now she is reaping the consequences. Point?

Plan B is not just for married people. You should be going through the courts and/or a trusted intermediary when it comes to arranging things for the children. There is no reason for you to ever speak to XWW - not through email or phone calls and certainly not face to face.

And the *last* thing that should ever happen is for the kids to see you and XWW and her boyfriend in the same place, EVER. They had to sit there and watch the two of them essentially shout you down and throw you out. Stuff like this should never, ever be happening, and the one with the power to stop it is YOU.

If there are problems with child care arrangements, you go through attorneys and/or intermediaries. You do not deal with XWW directly and you most certainly do not ever come within ten miles of her lousy boyfriend. You have the power to take control of this situation and both and your kids will greatly benefit if you do.

Stop letting these losers push your buttons (they get off on it) and emotional abuse your children (and they are). Use Plan B to put a stone-cold stop to it NOW.

No attorneys. Haven't litigated in years. Just to clarify, bf is not an OM. he's actually a good guy, but this was way out of line. Plan b isn't in the picture. There is no marriage to save. I'm remarried to a great woman. What this proves to me is that I've been too nice over the years and do have to revert to a silent approach on things again.

Plan B is for your mental sanity...for YOUR recovery, while an A is ongoing or when one has a toxic ex like yours.

It would really help you.

The truth is that my DW wanted me to react a bit more than I did. I seriously don't let this stuff faze me anymore.

My DW gets more upset than I do.

My mistake is that I constantly forget that civility and being cordial has been entirely a one way street with the ex. So I have sent pictures of the kid's birthday parties or special accomplishments in the spirit of coparenting, but it's very evident that such cordial behavior is pretty one sided.

We don't communicate much outside of what is necessary. I just have to make it minimal again and sit far away when going to karate. Either that or just head out if she's there.

A few months ago, her mom decided to bring something to my attention that she wasn't happy about right after one of the karate classes. She wasn't happy that my mom doesn't think WXW walks on water.

I sent her the following response:

XMIL,

I don�t normally write you or communicate with you, but feel that I should address what happened yesterday.

I will not have a debate about my family when the kids are anywhere nearby, which is why I chose not to say anything last night. If you feel you need to address something, then feel free to call me at any time, but I will not discuss any issues of contention when the kids are standing nearby. Confronting me there was wrong on your part and shouldn�t have happened.

That being said, you feel you need an explanation on why my mother feels the way she does.

I do not want to dredge up what should be obvious. Keep in mind as I explain this I am personally well past all of these issues, but it�s really very simple and it boils down to this (from my mother�s perspective):

Your daughter cheated on her son while he was at war. She went out with 5 different men while leaving the kids with a nanny. She physically cheated on him with one or more of them. She then ambushed him with a divorce the day he got off the plane. She took his kids, the majority of their things and effectively ended his military career. She left him an emotionally broken man, without a job, separated from his kids, and financially broke.

Adding insult to injury was the complete lack of support from you or FIL in this situation and a concerted effort on both of your parts to fund her legal efforts to keep her son away from his children and get him out of their lives. From her perspective, you put her son on the defensive and attempted to smear him with false abuse allegations. She feels you and WXW treated her son like a criminal.

I in no way deserved the treatment I got from either you or from WXW.

WXW has never once apologized or showed any remorse for the way she treated me or what she did to me 5 years ago.

I finally accepted the fact that she will never see what she did nor will she ever apologize. She has somehow rationalized her behavior in her mind and shows no remorse or conscience over what she did.

While I may have forgiven, I have not forgotten. I deal with her for the kids, but would otherwise have absolutely nothing to do with her in any way shape or form if it wasn�t for them. I deal with her with complete indifference.

All I can tell you is that the kids, the boys especially, hear things and interpret them in their own ways which are often grossly out of context in how they were said. I�ve experienced this personally and know of things supposedly said by WXW or BF which have been presented to me out of context.

This is certainly the case with the comments made about the garage code.

As far as anything else goes, I can only do something about things I witness or am there for. What I know and what I�ve seen is that my mom has never once said anything to the kids while I have been there and she knows better than to do so.

But if you expect her to change her feelings about WXW, then you�re hopelessly na�ve. If the roles were reversed and I had cheated on her with 5 different women and then took the kids from her and left her broke and living off the charity of friends, and subsequently dragged her through an expensive legal battle then I�m sure your opinion of me would be much more negative. She literally feels sick to see you or WXW or anyone in your family. She can�t simply set aside your efforts to destroy my relationship with the kids 3 years ago.

This is how SHE feels. As I said before, this is all a non issue for me now.

Please do not say anything about my mother to me again and do not ever confront me about something you don�t like while the kids are anywhere nearby. My response will be the same: silence.

Do not mistake my civility for friendly feelings. Everything I do is for them. This means interacting with their mother and her family and finding solutions to problems in a manner that benefits the kids, even if it means putting on a friendly front for them while you and WXW are around.

I can look in the mirror and know I was faithful to my vows and did what I felt was right at the time to try and save my marriage. I wake up every day with a clear conscience.

I put all this behind me long ago because I have to. I know that if any of the boys was treated by their wife in the manner that WXW treated me that I would take much longer to simply �let it go�. It�s not that simple and you as a parent should understand that.

The greatest regret I have and one that I have wanted to apologize for is for a comment I made to FIL 3 years ago shortly after BF moved in. Outside of that, my greatest sin was to fight for my kids, who benefit from having me in their lives.

That�s something I don�t regret at all.

HTLD

Wouldnt parallel parenting be better and less stressful than co-parenting? You arent a team any more after all and there's no reason to communicate with her.

I get that you have put a lot behind you and are civil - but she clearly hasn't and isnt.

It cant be a good thing for your kids to hear you constantly being referred to as the enemy - or seeing her whip herself up into a frenzy.

She might focus more on herself and on her own parenting if you arent around. no need to be a target is there?

Oh dear, it sound very much like you need Plan B to me...

I will stay in Plan B probably for life with my STBxWH and his entire family, even after divorce.

The couple of times I have broken my Plan B with any of them, it is upsetting, sucks a lot of emotional energy from me and I end up dwelling over a lot of negative stuff all over again.

The wayward and usually much of their family paints the BS out to be the bad guy in order to minimize their guilt over the wayward's bad behavior. There is no sense in arguing with these people. They are just going to rationalize and justify everything away, just like the wayward.

I recently saw my POSWH at court and I shunned him completely and turned my back on him any time we were in the same area. I will probably never talk to him directly again. If there is no way to avoid your XWW and her bf at events like karate, then do not sit near them and if they try to talk to you turn your back to them or move away.

I just can't imagine dealing with a wayward at all, even after divorce, HTLD. Please please reconsider the benefits of Plan B. You can at least give it a try and see what happens. I think you will be surprised....