Still trying to find hope in recovering from my past experiences.

One thing that tears me up is the type of person my wife cheated on me with.

She has had a long list of things "wrong" with me for years. And this other guy didn't meet one of them.

It drives me crazy thinking she had love for this type of guy.

Did he really represent what she wants in life from a partner?

If there are others who can speak from her perspective I would really appreciate some cold hard truths.

From my perspective being a FWW and my H being a FWH, I'll be honest and say that I sometimes wondered if the Others were better for each of us than each other. OW liked alot of the same stuff my H likes, and vice versa. OM liked alot of the same things I liked. But the bottom line, in my opinion, is that no matter what, time, lack of precautions, and just plain life erodes any relationship. And the only reason that it seemed so great with the Others at the time was because it was all an illusion. With the Others you don't have to think about money, career, family issues, kids, in-laws,etc.

You get all the good stuff, but none of the bad stuff. And no matter what, they almost always agree with you and you think that you are right and the you "belong" together. It's all bull.

Do I think that guy represents what your wife wants in a partner? No. Because he was nothing but a way to escape reality and be selfish. I'm sure, given time, if she had ended up with OM, suddenly his list of wrongs would appear.

Looking back now, my H and I don't have alot in common. But I wouldn't trade him for anyone. OM has nothing on my H.

-Txnatheart

Afairees affair DOWN. Affairs are built on fantasy. And when someone is high on their drug, they change who they are to make it okay. This AP was just there. It isn't about him. It really isn't. The thing was, he was around and available when your WW had poor boundaries. As I once read, "It could have been a goat."

Typically affairees affair DOWN. Just ask yourself what kind of a person DOES a married person in the first place?

What the OM did right was meet some top need of hers that you weren't meeting possibly. But the main reason that happened is because she has sloppy boundaries around men.

Please do yourself a favor and read the book Surviving an Affair so you understand how and why affairs happen. It has nothing with the OM's "traits" but in how well he met certain needs. He could be a troll under the bridge or a criminal [and affairs with criminals are not uncommon] and as long as he met her needs in an effective way, she could fall in love.

We have read, Surviving and Affair and His needs / Her needs..

Is still very rough.

She still describes him pretty highly in a lot of aspects.

She has been very verbally abusive since our son was born, I didn't live up to her ideas of what a "man" should be.

Basically take the 4 Love Busters and that is what i get almost every day, and at least once a week in a total blow up event from her still to this day.

it is so hard for me to feel safe with her.. She says he wasn't anything special, and that a future affair is off the table..

BUT

If I don't feel safe or respected how can I move on and forgive / (God help me forget)?

If you two have read SAA and HNHN then what type of Plan are you following? It doesn't seem to be one to create a romantic marriage where you are both getting ENs met and LBs are off the table.

Does your WW post here? Would she be willing to?

She hates this place... She blames the exposure "incident" on this place and hates it with a passion.



She tells me that the outbursts are "wrong", but mostly justified, just not justified to that extent.

She tells me that the underlying reasons are true/real but the method she uses to express them are not.

Recently I've been told that what I give, no woman would be happy with OR any woman I would find would expect the same things.

Pretty much feels like its my fault... I'm really down.

I really do feel that I'm an OK guy, that I'm not the neatest/cleanest person around, and that I'm not the rough and tough father type..

I'm a software developer, not a cowboy.
EDIT: I am messy, but have improved greatly. Just not to her level of approval. (Constantly told I'm a half asser)

Shouldn't people just try and be pleasant to each other? Especially their spouses?

I have never known so much hurt from one person, yet felt the need to be healed by that same person.

You can't move on as long as your marriage does not recover. Can I ask why you tolerate abuse? Is there some kind of payoff from being abused? Do you think it helps her love you or respect you? Frankly, I don't see much to respect in a husband that tolerates verbal abuse. I would not tolerate that and I know my husband would not tolerate that for 2 seconds. Why do you?

I would suggest that you go into Plan B as quickly as you can, and not allow your WW to abuse you in this manner any longer. You would only end Plan B in one of 2 ways, by your WW agreeing to a proper recovery program that she actively uses, or by getting a D. I am sorry, but I don't see how or why you would want to save a marriage like this.

Why are you with her if she wont commit to an MB recovery? If they wont commit to a plan for recovery it is better off to stay in Plan B until they do, according to Dr H.

Without recovery it is just a crippled version of the Pre A relationship and you will get nowhere

She cheated on you!! The least she can do is fill out a damn questionnaire. Oh and thank god every day you are a nice guy and you didnt throw her into a dumpster,

That's my $.02 right there. Scotty summed it up for you, JF.

In my case, it was.


And he's still with her!!! Go figure.

Edited: incomplete post, and now I forgot what I was saying... Whoops.

Are the two lovebirds still in contact? Sounds to me like she's still involved in this affair.

Ditto

This is the problem right here. There is no plan for recovery. Your marriage is a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage and is more vulnerable for an affair than before the affair. Your wife doesn't get to dictate the terms of recovery, that is your job. If she won't participate in a program of recovery, then you should be making plans to go into Plan B. Otherwise you will just die a death of a thousand cuts - as you can see.

And if she is still angry about exposure I suspect she is still in an affair. Anger over exposure is a sign of the FOG. How do you explain she is still foggy?

I would give her a chance to earn your forgiveness by demonstrating trustworthy behavior and committing to a plan of recovery. If she won't do that, then you don't have a marriage. But she won't do that unless you raise the bar here.

It is up to you to lead your marriage out of this tarpit. Having no plan is a plan to FAIL.

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to settle for a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

2. no more opposite sex friendships

3. complete honesty about her affair � passing a polygraph if necessary

4. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

This thread may help you some:

Boundaries vs. Manipulation/Control

You may also get some mileage out of Dr. Harley's article about when to call it quits as your wife is begging for you to man up but I think if and when you do she ain't gonna particularly like it.

There came a point in my recovery where I just KINDLY called bullcrap and said "THIS" isn't enough for me to stay. I didn't yell or scream but I refused to remain in a loveless marriage. That was my boundary. I had my out and I was THINKING of taking it unless she got MORE invested in our recovery plan. She did. Yours SOUNDS like she's gonna need a whole lot more convincing than one little discussion.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - still pissed about exposure? My wife THANKS ME for everything I did to help save her from herself. Yours should too....eventually. But don't let her wayward thinking butt make you doubt your manliness. What kind of "woman" is she? She's not the shiniest penny in the roll either...so why does her opinion of you matter? Who gets to tell you whether you are a man or not? As a man, YOU necessarily define manliness. Matters to think about.

That really p'd me off btw. The whole what kind of man thin thing.

You, like Bill C, are commited or would have 'let her fall on her crazy alien face' as he puts it.

You spend time on a marriage advice website for h's sake!!

And you forgave her a terrible betrayal.

She should thank god on bended knee.

Or rather, she should shape up or be shipped out

JF, I am a 2x WW (now FWW) and I wanted to let you know that neither of my APs were anything that a healthy or rational woman would be interested in. My H is handsome, well spoken, intelligent, has a wonderful sense of humor and has adored me since we met in high school...the losers were both fat, ugly, unintelligent "men" who were incapable of having a meaningful conversation. Now, I will admit that my story is a bit different, but the truth is that I wasn't looking for a "prince charming" or a "knight in shining armor". The APs were easy targets, men who could be manipulated and I thought I was better than they were.

My wonderful husband has always been what I wanted in a man....he is now and was then. During the As I treated H like dirt. I told him he was fat (he wasn't), I said he wasn't the kind of man I would ever marry again (complete lie), I made him feel ugly and unloved, every little habit he had that had never been an issue before I used as reasons to attack him.

WWs are cruel and selfish. What your WW is saying to you is most likely NOT TRUE. Please don't let your opinion of yourself be dictated by your WW. She's so focused on herself right now that she can't even see you at this point. Remember that your worth is not found in any person...God made you who you are and you're value lies therein.