Maybe, but I blame her mother for raising her in a consequence-free environment where FWW was never allowed to make mistakes and was allowed things that effective parenting would have forbidden. If her children were going to fail in some way, my MIL would intervene rather than her kids learn a lesson. My wife was indulged things that my inlaws could not afford or made any sense to her to have. It was poor parenting and it was only after dday and being informed of her daughters A, did she admit some errors.

I see it in the way my wife is with my kids. For instance, my boy leaves papers and a book by mistake at an afterschool program. He was more concerned with playing that when the time came to leave he had to in a hurry and left his stuff there. I say he gets a failure for the homework and emabarassed for his mistake, instead my wife is running around town looking for his papers. I got taught lessons by making mistakes. I take ownership of my decisions and actions.

Maybe you see the parallels or not, but my wife turned into an adult who allowed herself a guilt free pleasure without consequence. Her boundaries were not important as soon as someone indulged her needs and continued to meet them. And, maybe theres a connection between what needs OM met and the material items her parents got her which probably, at the time, her parents knew they in all rights they couldnt afford or shouldnt provide. That may explain how easily my wife bounderies were breeched.

My MIL raised one adultress and a son in the last stages of ending his marriage (and a genuine misery to be around in the best of times). The track record is there. Heres a kicker, my older brother's wife had a well publicized affair many years ago, so what does that say about my mother and the way we were raised?

Im just an armchair pyschologist, not a pro, with plenty of time to be introspective.

Trying to avoid raising children with similar decision making deficiencies their mother has. We spoke to the boy's new teacher and my wife was asking about the aforementioned missing homework and how important it was and does she have another copy and should he still do and what happens if he forgets it and yada yada yada.

It was almost embarassing.

I was cringing at how much she is intervening in what is a minor infraction and how we are missing an excellent learning opportunity for him.

The teacher almost went above and beyond to tell her its not a big deal. Fourth graders do lose things and after teaching for 25 years, she understands. NOT TO WORRY. BE COOL. HE'LL DO TOMORROWS ASSIGNMENT.

I begged her to try something foreign to her and try to be cool about things in life. She does come from one of the most uncool people on earth, her mother, so overcoming genetics is tough.

I sat with the boy alone last night and let him know the expectation going forward. HE is responsible for everything that goes on in class. He is responsible for reading, bringing in all that is required of him, and his actions.

My wife has been awesome in many facets of our life since dday and this just one more thing we are working on. I think she believes a lassez faire approach to our kids workload is not caring. Far from it, if I do their homework or search for answers for them on the internet, or sharpen their pencils, or make sure their backpacks are ready for school, WHAT ARE THEY LEARNING??

How we tackle things in life is how our kids will do so in theirs.

Trying to avoid raising children with similar decision making deficiencies their mother has. We spoke to the boy's new teacher and my wife was asking about the aforementioned missing homework and how important it was and does she have another copy and should he still do and what happens if he forgets it and yada yada yada.

It was almost embarassing.

I was cringing at how much she is intervening in what is a minor infraction and how we are missing an excellent learning opportunity for him.

The teacher almost went above and beyond to tell her its not a big deal. Fourth graders do lose things and after teaching for 25 years, she understands. NOT TO WORRY. BE COOL. HE'LL DO TOMORROWS ASSIGNMENT.

I begged her to try something foreign to her and try to be cool about things in life. She does come from one of the most uncool people on earth, her mother, so overcoming genetics is tough.

I sat with the boy alone last night and let him know the expectation going forward. HE is responsible for everything that goes on in class. He is responsible for reading, bringing in all that is required of him, and his actions.

My wife has been awesome in many facets of our life since dday and this just one more thing we are working on. I think she believes a lassez faire approach to our kids workload is not caring. Far from it, if I do their homework or search for answers for them on the internet, or sharpen their pencils, or make sure their backpacks are ready for school, WHAT ARE THEY LEARNING??

How we tackle things in life is how our kids will do so in theirs.

Hey, Mike: This struck a chord with me and my SIL, both of us victims of affairs by our FWHs (brothers). BIL has had MULTIPLE affairs (PA and EA), my FWH had one affair on me and two on his ex-wife (I was not involved), their sister has cheated, and their youngest brother, now 44, still lives in MIL's house and won't get up for work.

BIL, who has been diagnosed a sex addict for his heinous and multiple, multiple affairs (two within the first year of his 27-year marriage. ugh!), recently exposed his problems to his parents. My FWH is about to talk to them this weekend.

They really are good people. Screwed up? Sure, but not malicious and certainly not evil. MIL asked BIL: Did we screw you guys all up?

I can't decide if it's heroic of BIL to have said: No, I did this to myself; or if he should have said something about the mixture of genetics, environment and free will all being to blame.

I don't want them devastated, but my SIL and I agree that the cycle of lies and compulsion should end.

Hmmmmmm. Now, I'm thinking I"m thread-jacking here, Mike. Sorry!

Back to MB's philosophies. I guess that's what's to great about it, is that it gives us the tools to change our behaivors through the POJA. HOpefully, your wife will agree to negotiate these kid issues, or at least find a better balance that helps you.

There should be a forum for complaining about inlaws.

Don't get me started buddy!

I read NG's D-day story last night which as you would expect was a gripping tale with emotion, a touch of humor, and a ton of honesty.

It triggered a bad mood in me.

And, in this new world of O & H, I told my wife why I was not very happy. I said I would have loved to have caught her in her A after 2-3 months like NG and it would have been great to have ended it before it got physical.

She said, 'I wish it didnt even start.'

She went on to say that she is doing all to help us not have these moments, which, admittably, do not happen all too often. She went on to say that having this over her head for life is something she says is sometimes overwhelming to her. The A in no way was worth a minute fraction of the hurt she put on everyone and she says she wants me to know that she is doing and will continue to do everything possible to make me happy.

She also said that if she had to point to one word that would maybe answer the question why, its "laziness". I told her that being available to him for no other reason than laziness doesnt make me happy. She said 'would you be happier if I said I loved him to death and couldnt get enough of his body? That would be so far from the truth its insane. I stayed in the worst situation becaue every other option meant me taking responsiblity of my life and growing up. I hurt my husband and kids because Im lazy. I begged you to forgive this and you have. I will never disappoint you again.'

No crying. No yelling, of course.

She said sorry again, which I forbid her from saying.

We kissed and went to bed.

I can relate to these days. Still have them on occasion. I wonder why we as BS's say

"I would have loved to have caught you in your A after 2-3 months, it would have been great to have ended it before it got physical."

when the truth is we should be thinking "I wish I knew how to meet certain EN's so this never happened"

My w still apologizes to me on occasion, though it is unsolicited. Just this morning she sent me this:


" I haven't forgotten all the devastation I brought on you, our marriage and the family. Every day I remember and every day I'm so sorry for all of it. I don't always tell you but I never forget and I never take it for granted that I'm here with you. It's such an honor to be your wife and I love you so completely. Thank you for loving me too."

I simply replied:

welcome. I adore you, you are my heart. I love you grace, you are a pearl. I will miss you today.

CV

CV-

One's EN are one's EN. Far be it from me to disparage anyone's needs.

My wife's needs, however, were incredibly shallow and material to make them almost pathetic.

She offered up her body over the years to maintain some really meaningless things to continue to be supplied.

I do take some solace knowing it wasnt his sexual prowess that kept her returning. It was his ability/interest to deliver nice things.

She hates herself over this.

MSS, I'm not happy that my story was the proximate cause of your having a bad day, unless you can look at it by knowing that that particular piece of "badness" was someday going to have to be expunged....and now it has been!

As a follow-on to your thoughts about the "value" of the "needs" that WSs will seek to source from APs, I guess there is no "best" answer. Your FWW sought material things. My FWW sought professional/collegial validation, and additional companionship. The "need" is, finally, of no importance when compared to the method of satisfying it. If yours had taken a third or fourth job to legitimately acquire whatever baubles she received, you wouldn't be here, as I would not if mine had simply found the voice to tell me she was lonely, instead of confiding same to OM.

BUT.....

Read the posting on my thread I made today. The possibility of having a "great" day like that is the goal behind putting in the work that can lead to recovery. You've come a long way quickly. Like my morning yesterday, finish with a strong kick, amigo!

I did read the post and congrats on all including the 5K. Nice to hear considering your not-too-long-ago health issues.

I did appreciate your good day yesterday.

My wife did ask me last night right before her 'good night' kiss to remember our great weekend. Friends, parties, and watching the kids sports and all of us together. She focus' on that and it keeps her on the path.

You and her are right you can have a great day still.

Thought for the week:

"Little things mean a lot."

For instance, a 'you look nice in that' or 'I like your hair that way' are things I never said and she loves that I compiment her nowadays.

Also, the boy had a friend over and they wanted to have lunch. Normally Id take them to McD's and not think 2x. I asked her to join us and she accepted. This was out of the norm as I would usually let her relax by herself. SHE suggested it was bit of me wanting to know where she is at all times but that really never dawned on me. (Of which she has no problem, btw.) The new 'us' has us together doing things we usually separated for. Its all good.

The little things.

While I get that you feel better afterward, if you know the facts of the affair, bringing it up again is a Love Buster. Better to have said "I'm feeling down because I had a bunch of bad memories triggered by X." Talk about the things in the present that are bringing your past to the present; don't bring up the past once it's been dealt with if it's possibly avoided.

It's perfectly Radically Honest to talk about your feelings. It's a great idea to include anything you can identify that caused you to feel that way. It's a pretty bad idea to keep bringing up the affair as context for your feelings; focus on the things happening *now* that are triggering those feelings.

I hear you.

Cant help myself sometimes.

I did give her a nice apology today, if thats any consolation for Love Busting.

Nope, an apology is no consolation. Get out there and spend 3-5 hours meeting one of her most important emotional, non-intimate emotional needs; THAT is consolation!

It was during our UA time that she asked if something was wrong and in radical honesty I told here. No accusations, no disrespectful judgement, just what was on my mind.

I'm not going to lie and brush my feelings away when at the same i demand when she is struggling with something that she bring it up.

I believe in our recovery there is a place for calm discussion should something arise as long as we end it with no animosity. And no outbursts.

We spent too many years not opening up to each other. Not going to swallow something when it's pressing my mind. That's not healthy either.

And, compared to some of the stuff I sometimes think about and don't tell her, what was said the other night was mild.

Been thinking about OMW for a while now. I decided I would not maintain regular contact due her instability and boundaries I like to keep. I think there is zero to gain by being friends.

I don't want any affair talk. Shed defend OM and id blame him for it all. What else is there?

But as we are tied to each other in some warped fashion I feel like I should reach out to her. Our last brief encounter was an errant text I sent six weeks ago where it was clear shed like to catch up.

I just don't think she has the support I know I needed to get to this point.

I told my wife tonite about this and she would rather I don't contact her. I didnt expect my wife to embrace the idea. She did say if it was going to make me happy I should send a text.

Am I wrong to reach out to OMW to see how she's managing? I'm not meeting with her just an email.

Her hurt must be huge for so many reasons.

Sorry, MSS, but my BS-Meter is pinned to a reading of "Large Stinking Pile"

You do NOT want to "reassure" her, or anything else of such an altruistic nature. You really want to find out if POSOM has been dealt with as harshly as you have (correctly) dealt with your FWW, right? You want justice to be served and have him suffer some cruel fate, even if that fate is to suffer the contempt of his now-informed BW!

The reasons I know this are two:

• Because there really is no comfort you can provide to OMW. Are you going to tell her that all the sex OM got from your FWW could not REALLY have been that good for him, since your FWW says her heart wasn't in it?
• Because I wanted the same revenge (as do ALL BHs)

Let it go. Do NOT text/phone/e-mail/telegraph/relay/sky-write/IM ANYTHING to that lady. You will set back your recovery (and since you would be doing it, it could be said you deserve it), but you'll also be setting back FWW's (and right now she neither needs, nor deserves, that).

Ok. Understood.

We were friends before all this which is not in the norm of these situations.

I suspect that he spent some time in the doghouse but is back to lying and cheating and his many ssl.

I won't contact her. My dad did say many many years ago that men and women have no reason to be friends. Unless you are boinking or are working on the boink for what purpose do u need that friend. Our spouses nicely proved my dads theory.

Just wanted to how she's doing but I won't.

I was going to say that the only purpose for the BS and the OPS to contact to expose the OPS, exchange info about the affair, and to verify NC if they suspect their spouse of falling off the wagon and breaking NC.

Out of those three reasons you have not stated the need to do any of these three. You have done all of this.

But I really like the way never guessed expressed what he believes was your motivation and how contacting OMW in your case is not helpful for anyone envolved.

Once a BS gets their WS to go NC they can suggest that the OPS use MB, but not tell their WS about it until they have had guidance from the pros here. The forum is here for support.

This is why not just NC for the affair partners, but for their spouses and children as well.