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There has been so much religous talk on this board lately. It seems like if you have a non conventional opinion about religion you are automatically attacked with scripture. Is this still a board for everyone or only born again Christians?

Just curious

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It is assumed by many that this is a Christian web site. I haven't seen this specifically stated.

Here is the instructions from the Forum's intro page: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This forum is open to not only those who have questions, but also to those with comments or suggestions. We recommend that all participants of the discussion forum be familiar with Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would hope that all can have discussions here without feeling attacked.

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jilly,

I'm a very spirtual person...but I'm not christian. In spite of that...I very rarely get "attacked" by anyone. I know lots of others who are in similar circumstances...for the most part...we all get along. It's my experience that the fights that start about scripture...are most between those who believe in scripture...and in how they interpret it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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People of any faith or no faith are welcome here. Many of the principles of MB are Christian based, but there is no one religious faith required to participate. All are welcome and appreciated because different faiths lend more diversity and varied view points. We are all here to learn and broaden our knowledge.

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Hey jilly,

This is NOT a Christian site. The Harley's are professing Christians though, so I think the site attracts like-minded people.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</small>

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Yikes, guess I might as well fan the flames a bit....since you offered

nb...I think the Bible is corrupted and is not to be taken literally

sufdb....I dunno nb, kinda guts the whole program. If the Bible is corrupt, then we have no way of knowing anything about God, so Christianity becomes meaningless....like all the other "religions" which are based on nothing. However, interpretation is another issue alltogether, plenty to fight about there.

nb...I believe in allowing civil ceremonies/marriages for gays

sufdb...Not me, but not because of religion...but because it is an incredibly stupid socio/political paradigm....heterosexual marriage as the basic societal unit is like democracy...it isn't the best paradigm, but it is better than all the alternatives for accoplishing the purpose of our social paradigms....species survival.

nb...I believe in a woman's right to choose what happens to HER BODY

sufdb....I suppose if I were female I would be similarly biased. I do believe (for the most part, but not 100%) in the concept of self-determination re ones body (male or female)...however when a female chooses to become pregnant, it no longer is her body...and she does not any moral/ethical/rational/etc. right to pass judgement on the reproductive rights of males. However, IMO there is a happy middle ground, the female gets autonomy if physical health is substantially at risk....otherwise she has the baby and gives it up for adoption....or more appropriately she does not have sex (so will not be pregnant, and can have all the autonomy she wants) or she has herself sterilized....lots of choices, killing unborn babies is not one of them. I can only imagine the uproar if we decided males can choose for a woman to abort the baby...... boy would that cause chaos and mayhem.

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Sorry jilly... quick thread-jack.


Well sufdb,

I'm sure this isn't what jilly expected when she wrote her thread.

I'm torn between asking you to begin another thread and just letting the whole thing go with you... I just don't think I have the energy to debate you tonight. Also, you were, in fact, one of those who said that my belief was based on 'nothing' last summer too.

No, we've never "fought" or anything, but you and I have discussed this before.

In any case, I don't think that this is thread to discuss it.

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I've noticed a lot of religious wackos on the boards lately. It's sad because religionists always think they have the market cornered on morality, and I have NEVER found that to be true. In fact, whenever I hear someone's message machine end with "Have a blessed day" I know I'm in trouble. In fact, most o the accounts my company has i collections have people whose message machines end like that!

I have read some very helpful and warm and intelligent posts on this site. That being said, religion does not make someone a nice and caring person. Either someone is or isn't. A specific religion has nothing to do with in. Let's all be honest, shall we? LUCK caused us to be born within the last 100 years in the U.S.A. What is we were born 2,500 years ago? You would hav never heard of your Jesus. Would that mean you would not have been a nice person and you would be burning in hell right now?

Most of the time when I noticed people go into the whole religious phrases, quotes, etc. it's because they are so overwhelmed with sadness and they are looking for somehting, anything to blame, to help them get through this misery. But no god or demon made your spouse cheat and no god or demon or angel is going to fix things. It's up to the two people involved and that's that. An guess what? There is NOTHING wrong with thinking that. I personally feel wonderful to know I have power over my life and that there isn't some supernatural force that's moving the pieces of my life around without my permission. Life has enough fantasies in it. We don't need to create anymore.

And for anyone who wants to attack me for not believe in god let me say this --- IF there was a god then "He" or "she" betrayed us more than any loving spouse ever could.

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<small>[ March 18, 2004, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: batoutofhell ]</small>

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong> Sorry jilly... quick thread-jack.


Well sufdb,

I'm sure this isn't what jilly expected when she wrote her thread.

I'm torn between asking you to begin another thread and just letting the whole thing go with you... I just don't think I have the energy to debate you tonight. Also, you were, in fact, one of those who said that my belief was based on 'nothing' last summer too.

No, we've never "fought" or anything, but you and I have discussed this before.

In any case, I don't think that this is thread to discuss it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I only vaguely recall, but I hope I was more making the point of what is it based on then, and how does it apply to everyone the same way as it must, as do all the laws of the universe. However, I am not looking for a relgious debate thread either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . And you are correct, I was remiss in not responding to jilly's point.

No jilly, this IMO is not a Christian site, and does not purport to be, but is heavily populated by Christians, so naturally reflects the um....bias of the majority. I think all are welcomed who have an interest in MB stuff. I also personally do not believe in attacking someones religious beliefs, but I do think it is fair to comment and disagree with religious positions taken on a public board...and I think that is a good thing as it completely airs such issues and readers can take away what they want...but I do think all such discussions should be civil.

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jillybean36,


--It seems like if you have a non conventional opinion about religion you are automatically attacked with scripture.

TR--I'm sorry If I have posted scripture and some one feel's attacked by it--which is why I try not to quote it--but only to give reference to something in the bible I feel may be helpful to them or for clarification, and then if someone chooses to look it up and read it for themselves--they can--and if not, that is okay too--but it's there in case they want to--

but please forgive me, if there is anything I've said or shared that has caused you or anyone else to feel attacked--as that is not my intent--

Would I like for other's to believe as I do--sure I would--only because I believe it so strongly--and so it scares me for them--but then I also understand that not everyone will or does believe
the same way--and never will, and just as I have shared with others--I believe it's okay that they don't--it's a choice--and can not nor should it be force fed to others--

So if I happen to share a bible verse--I do try and just give a reference to it--that way--the choice is still their's to look it up or not--so again, if there is anything I have said that has offended you or others by sharing my beliefs--I'm sorry--

--Is this still a board for everyone or only born again Christians?

TR--And as far as I know--this board is for any and all people--no matter what their belief systems are--


Bat,

--What is we were born 2,500 years ago? You would hav never heard of your Jesus. Would that mean you would not have been a nice person and you would be burning in hell right now?

TR--no it doesn't, the Old Testament Believers even though they did not know about Jesus--still believed in the promise of a coming Savior--so they lived in Hope of that promise being fullfilled--and we live in faith that it did happen--

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

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Dear Jilly...

Good Question! I would like to know that answer to that myself, after some of the beatings I've taken lately by other, so-called Christians.

My answer is this: everyone SHOULD be welcome here, but unfortunately they are not. When discussing moral and ethical situations, religion, or your interpretation of the Bible, TOO MANY here have NO TOLERANCE for diversity. The literalist, charismatics just wait in the wings, ready to "pounce for Jesus". It leaves many of us with horrible tastes in our mouths, and unwilling to attempt any rational discussion.

It is unfortunate. Many people only want to be heard, and to honestly discuss their beliefs and interpretations without being preached to, or told how wrong they are, and how they will be driving the "Hades Express" in the next life. Simply because their beliefs aren't EXACTLY in line with the more vocal minority.

So, no, I don't believe this place is open to people of other beliefs and faiths...unless they are masochistic.

Just my opinion...which I'm sure many will rush to tell me IS WRONG.

Clay <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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It is unfortunate that some people seem to believe that if you aren't a Christian, your morals are all wrong or you simply don't have any.

I grew up with ministers for Parents. I went to church without fail from birth into my 20's. When I decided to actually study the Bible for myself instead of just taking people's word for it, I decided that it is not what people say it is.

I decided that it is useless as a guide for morality because you could go to prison for doing many of the things that God instructed his people to do over the course of the Old Testament in particular.

I wish that Jesus and the Bible could stay out of these discussions unless someone wanted to discuss them specifically.

For every Christian there is an idea of who Jesus is. Just like too many cooks spoil the broth, I thing that too many different religious opinions just muddy everything up.

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Good thought!! I believe in God myself but have very different views from the norm. I absolutely think organized religion is crap. I have my doubts about the Bible because it's organized religion that has carried it through the years and has made "changes" as seen fit to make it more understandable and up to date.

I do find religion or lack of to make for interesting conversation and it always gives me something to think about. I love debate on the subject but I cannot take people who tell you what to believe or because they believe something and you don't that you are wrong.

Everyone interprets things in thier own way and has to find the beliefs that reflect them and make sense TO THEM. It doesn't matter what faith you are. Most religions have good points. The Ten Commandments alone are a good rules to live by and pretty darn basic if you ask me.

Some of my best friends are athiests. My husband is one. We talk about religion, we don't argue!! I think it's important that we respect eachothers beliefs, views and opinions. There really is no reason to argue. I think the worst way to persuade someone to believe something you do is to tell them they are wrong (ignorant, stupid) or to ram it down thier throats. It seems people who are so adamant about thier beliefs often alienate others instead of actually showing why or how they believe the way they do. It seems more like defense, like they are really convincing themselves that they know it all.

Thanks for posting an interesting thought Jilly.
Symphony

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I've never seen anyone use religion against a poster. I have seen Christians post their beliefs based on their religious point of view.

What's wrong with that?

We don't get upset if a liberal post a liberal point of view....you don't have to agree with that point of view.

Or a conservative.

Or a homosexual.

Or a feminist.

Or a non-feminist.

My point is just because someone differs on your point of view and that their position based on their value system why protest a Christian anymore than if you were a liberal and someone posted a conservative viewpoint?

I mean I haven't seen attacks on conservatives defining them as "whackos" so why do that to Christians?

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Some very good replys. The reason I started this thread is because I have seen people being preached too and the bible thumped maybe a little too much lately. I believe we all have our own beliefs but we need to be respectful to others who don't believe as we do.

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I am an atheist and have managed to survive this board for 5 years. I have been hit over the head with scripture on occasion, but not as often as some others - maybe because I am considered a lost cause. This board is not a board just for Christians, though some would like to think so.

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Stunned dad posted: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ..why protest a Christian anymore than if you were a liberal and someone posted a conservative viewpoint?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. This bias against Christianity is characteristic of our culture.

As far as Christians debating Christians, I think it's healthy. I learned early on in seminary that if you want to be a good theologian, you have to have a nose for argument.
I love a good debate with fellow believers. I love being challenged to go back to the Scriptures and rethink my position. Bring it on!

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Well, as the beneficiary of the Come To Jesus speech that our wicca High Priestess MB-trained coach gave to my born-Jewish-but-went-to-Catholic-elementary-school wife, I can certainly give a hearty "Praise Jesus" for the results even though I am not Christian.

Hopefully people of all religious persuasions can feel comfortable and respected here.

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It seems to me that some people post scripture when they don't have any rational reason for what they are saying.

"Homosexuality is wrong because it says so in the bible" is just so much easier to say than to think logically about why it is wrong for society.

On the other hand, some people seem to post scripture because they are are trying to be good christians and evangelize, I think that is part of the program and the bible says something about it. I'm sure someone could provide the quote.

I don't dislike christians. I do dislike it when some christians just slap some out-of-context quote from the bible to justify bigotry though.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

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