Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 10 1 2 3 4 9 10
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 40
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 40
Anyone who wants a classic example of what a lot of people are referring to here should see the thread, "Things Bush Can do to Protect Hetero Marriage", on this same board.

It has gotten extremely ugly; and not just between non-believers and believers, but between the "Conservative" Christians and the "Intellectual" Christians.

One thing I have noted in almost nine months here...I have NEVER seen a Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc., slamming someone for their beliefs. It has been, in every case I can remember, Conservative Christians who have the philosophy that those who don't believe EXACTLY the same as they do, or interpret the Bible EXACTLY as they do, are not "true" Christians, and not as "worthy" as they are.

clay

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,343
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,343
I'm often involved in the religious type threads, but always in the "god is fake" type approach. As a ex-born again christian and now a scientist, I will always try to help folks see the light that they should have more faith in themselves and their fellow humans, less in some "make you feel good" theory. LOL (that is supposed to me humours, although my position as well).

So, yeah, you seem some pretty arrogant people standing in their scriptures...but you learn to skip it. Or skip certain posts. Or at least skip certain paragraphs.

You need thick skin around here at times...but I don't think we non-believrs are going to get booted.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
BP22 posted: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a ex-born again christian</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe you can lose your salvation. Because God does the regenerating work in Romans 3:21-27, how can you undo what God does.

Are you saying that one day you bowed your knee to the Lordship of Christ, and then one day you decided He wasn't worth following, or he was a liar or lunatic?

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 40
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 40
(sigh) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Here we go.......

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3
A
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3
HOOTIE, I AGREE WITH YOU, I AM NEW HERE AND I DO WELCOME CHRISTIAN ADVICE, AS THOSE ARE MY BELIEFS, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN I COUNT OUT ADVICE FROM ANYONE ELSE, IT'S GOOD TO HEAR DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND JUDGE FOR YOURSELF WHICH SUGGESTIONS MY HELP YOU.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,098
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,098
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Hootie:
<strong> BP22 posted: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a ex-born again christian</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe you can lose your salvation. Because God does the regenerating work in Romans 3:21-27, how can you undo what God does.

Are you saying that one day you bowed your knee to the Lordship of Christ, and then one day you decided He wasn't worth following, or he was a liar or lunatic? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It just depends on what you believe. Some denominations hold that you can lose and regain salvation on a moment to moment basis depending on whether you're "prayed-up." I think these folks run afoul of the scripture you referenced.

Other denominations would say that bp22 was never saved in the first place, so his subsequent rejection of Christ was just an acknowledgement of where he was spiritually anyway.

Still others would hold that bp22 may have been saved at some point, but has now committed the unpardonable sin of blaspheming Christ (i.e. not accepting Christ) and is not saved.

Really, it's all moot. One is either a believer or not a believer. Period. The rest is details.

On the topic of this post, I think it's great that all beliefs and faiths are represented here. As one of the Christians, my perception is that Christianity (and the expression thereof) is less tolerated by the more vocal agnostic/atheistic folks than the nonbelievers are tolerated by the Christians. I try to keep a good perspective on things, but I'm probably helplessly biased toward feeling a little more attacked than the attacker. Aren't we all, though?

I feel like there are many posters on both sides of the spiritual fence who are inarticulate, close-minded, and intolerant. I generally try to explain where I am with things, what I believe, and what I accept as a service to those who misunderstand or misrepresent me and/or my beliefs. If that leads someone to (or back to) faith in Christ, that's great, but I'm not here specifically with that agenda or anything. It probably doesn't help that I like a good debate... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
Dilbert posted: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Other denominations would say that bp22 was never saved in the first place, so his subsequent rejection of Christ was just an acknowledgement of where he was spiritually anyway.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that I could be wrong in my position. Good scholars have given me examples of "those who have once been enlightened...and then have fallen away." (Heb. 6)

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult, and left untried." G. K. Chesterton

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,745
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,745
I am not sure exactly how to put this into words now but I feel like many of the people who do not believe in God feel that ALL christians are shoving thier beliefs down other peoples throats and I sense a undertone in alot of the posts from those who aren't believers that the Christians are a little stupid for believing what they believe.....maybe I am reading wrong?

I think everyone, regardless of belief, deserves the same respect as we oursleves would want as we state our own beliefs.

For the record...while I believe in God I do not consider myself a Christian.

Symphony

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 373
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 373
As a person of another faith who was told I was a gulliable, occultist in another thread I will say that there are a few posters on this board who are particularly strident in their Christian views and seem to be on a mission to evangelize everyone in their path. It does leave one feeling at times that the Xian contigency on this board might be happier if those of us in the "other or none" category would just bugger off or at least keep our mouths shut.

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
*

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</small>

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
Stunned-dad, you wrote...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've never seen anyone use religion against a poster. I have seen Christians post their beliefs based on their religious point of view. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I guess I'd offer myself as an example of just that. I made the mistake of calling myself a Christian, and having some Christian content in one of posts....when BAM! I got hit over the head with the bible by a couple of our more devout colleagues.

To be fair: maybe what they said what they had to say out of sincere desire to be helpful to me, and maybe also they are completely convicted of their righteousness, as Christians say. But the message I recieved was pretty much all DJ's. And so their "helpfulness" to me was muted and filtered by me.

That being said, I'd hate for this board to become the kind of place where we couldn't any longer enjoy this kind of vigorous debate. Where we couldn't apply a helpful 2x4 to those of us who really need it.

I'd like to think that we're all just Schmoes. Regular folks who are trying to figure things out for ourselves, and to help others do the same thing for themselves. Without -- without -- impuning each others' motives no matter by what euphemism we refer to those motives: a person's "Christian Expeience," their "liberalism," "conservatism," "intellectualism," or what ever.

__J

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 25
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 25
I am not sure exactly how to put this into words now but I feel like many of the people who do not believe in God feel that ALL christians are shoving thier beliefs down other peoples throats and I sense a undertone in alot of the posts from those who aren't believers that the Christians are a little stupid for believing what they believe.....maybe I am reading wrong?

Well, you are probably right. I mean, the only thing that sounds kookier to an atheist than what christians believe is what christians think other people believe! Face it, xians think every other religion is a cult and that their followers are nuts! Actually, let's add to that --- christians think that every other denomination of christianity is filled with nuts.

MMOH said it best, "No knowledge of where we came from is going to come from reading a # of short books written by some bare-assed, half-starved, protein deficient, illiterate jews, wandering around in a desert, in a nomadic tribe, hallucninating from the oppressive heat and conditions in which they tried to eke out an existence."

Prayer does not work because no on is listning. If there was, there would a hell of a lot less choir boys being molested by priests. How arrogant is it to think that god is answering someone's prayers about getting a new job, passing a test, winning the lottery, stopping a leak in the roof, fixing a bone; but "he" does not care about little kids being molested, buses flying off cliffs, nuns being raped, etc.

You would also have to believe that "he" supported all the naked aggression and misery xianity and religion has caused mankind throughout history. Honestly, xianity's history is deeper in blood than the nazis. Do the #s if you wish.

I never met an atheist who knocked on people's doors, trying to convert them. Atheists don't burn books. Atheists don't tell people how to think or what to do or try to create laws to MAKE PEOPLE DO THINGS. Atheists don't have a history of torturing people who don't think as they do. xians on the other hand wants everyone to be like them. And if they can't kill or convince them; they'll encourage politicians to make laws that deny people's freedoms and civil rights.

Incidentally the founding fathers despised xianity and organized religion. If they didn't, THIS WOULD BE a xian country. It's not. We are free to think what we want without threat of prosecution. That's why we need to keep religion out of schools. No kid should ever feel alientated because he does not want to say "under god."

Incidentally, can someone please name for me one televangelist that Jesus would want to pal around with in heaven? How would "he" feel about people wearing GOLD crosses studded with diamonds? How would "he" feel about multi-million dollar churches? Religion has always been about two things --- $$$ and power. That's it. You give religion the $$$ and they have the power. Oh, but you get to walk away feeling like you bought some extra chips that you can cash in when you get to "heaven."

Come on! Lighten up! There is nothing wrong with being part of a highly evolved species. It could have been worse. You could have been born as a Venus fly trap.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: batoutofhell ]</small>

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,311
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,311
Since I began posting on MB last summer I have received some wonderful, heartfelt advise from Christians and non-Christians. I have made it very clear that I consider the Bible as my sole authority of direction. If the advise I receive jives with Scripture I retain it. If not, I reject it. It's a very simple process for me.

I have tried to show the difference between religion and Christianity here. I still see a great confusion here between religion and Christianity. There was a time in my life when I considered myself to be religious. When I met Jesus Christ and accepted Him as my personal Lord and Savior, I became a Christian. It was religion that nailed Jesus to that cross. It was God's power, grace, and mercy that brought Him out of that tomb. Today, the tomb is still empty. It is empty because Jesus is no longer there. Religion would place Jesus back into the tomb.

If I agree to blindly accept some's suggestions to deny the reality of a risen Lord, or to "tone down" my bringing forth of that good news, I am in effect putting Him back into that tomb. A dying, confused society claims that "any pathway will lead to God". Christianity states that the ONLY way to God is through the Son. Religion seeks to accomodate those who would seek to justify themselves through works, goodness, or "enlightened thinking". Christianity seeks to set the captive free. Religion seeks your dollar bill, Jesus wants your dollar will. Religion stifles, Christianity freshens. That is the difference between life and death.

Please don't ever ask me to deny the power and love of Christ. It won't happen. I have bet my life on it. If you produce his body, I will willingly renounce my faith. Are you willing to bet your life, your eternal existence, on your belief system? That is the question that must be answered. That is the issue that a wise person would examine. God bless you all!

John 16:33.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 137
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 137
I tend to agree strongly with the post just before this one. I make reference to God and Christ because I believe it. God never said anywhere that people would never have trouble. I have to believe that God has a plan for everyone, and that as long as you seek out and follow that plan your life blessed more than if you choose to ignore what God is telling you. Sometimes I think it takes some trials to knock us down a peg and bring us back to where He wants us to be. God isnt that hard to figure out, obey and honor and love him and you will be blessed. I've seen it happen to many times to believe otherwise. In the case that caused me to end up here, I know my WS is not living the way God wants us too, but I havent been either. This situation has begun to bring me back and to help me realize the peace and blessing I have been missing out on. I hope that somedday my wife will get her head on straight and see it too.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,749
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,749
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Symphony of Life:
<strong> I am not sure exactly how to put this into words now but I feel like many of the people who do not believe in God feel that ALL christians are shoving thier beliefs down other peoples throats and I sense a undertone in alot of the posts from those who aren't believers that the Christians are a little stupid for believing what they believe.....maybe I am reading wrong?

I think everyone, regardless of belief, deserves the same respect as we oursleves would want as we state our own beliefs.

For the record...while I believe in God I do not consider myself a Christian.

Symphony </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where I am now, the recent threads have definately convinced me I am not a Christian. I do believe in God, but I can in no way consider any longer that I am Christian, nor do I want to.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,745
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,745
Batoutofhell,
Not sure if you directed you post at me or if you were just stating a viewpoint in general to all the posts and posters. I want you to know if you hadn't already picked it up in a previous post that I do believe in God but I do not believe in organized religion of any kind and I have my doubts about the Bible because it was the church who has brought it through to what we know it today. I do not consider myself christian.

In reading your post I see alot of stereotypes of christianity and christians. That's just as wrong as Christians using stereotypes for athiests or people who believe differently. No one can be put in a neat little box. Religion, people and beliefs are all too diverse. What you say about christians is the same thing you are complaining that they are saying about you and anyone who thinks differently. I do not disagree that some people are very stubborn and judgemental. I do believe that some are self righteous. I DO NOT believe that you can label ALL christians as such.

As for prayer not working and the evidence being that there would be no more suffering if it did. No where in the Bible does it say that life will be easy, no one will sin, no one will hurt another. Christians believe people have free will and so do I. We choose to do what we will. We do have a choice of how we will live our life and how we treat people. If people followed some of the guidlines set out in the Bible there wouldn't be the hate and tradedies we see in our world today.

Why would God "support" the "naked aggression and misery xianity and religion has caused mankind throughout history." It's man himself that has created such misery and in many cases used God's name as thier defense.

"Atheists don't have a history of torturing people who don't think as they do." Hitler is the first that comes to my mind and there are others.

As to your views on tele-evangelists, gold crosses and fancy churches I completely agree. The money they put into all the shiny pretties should be going to help the poor and needy because that is what the church is supposed to do. I could go on and on about the failing of organized religion and the church but that would take up my whole night and yours.

I have my beliefs and I don't feel I need to defend them. They are MY beliefs. I only ask for respect and I give the same. I cannot fathom believing in evolution but I certainly don't believe anyone who does is stupid or even wrong. I have no problem discussing the issues with my husband who is an athiest, my good friend who is an athiest, my friend who is agnostic, my friend who is a christian etc etc etc.

It's not about right and wrong for me. I can point at the failings of the church all I want but I am responsible for my own choices and beliefs. I can't hold God responsible for what people do and I can't make that an excuse not to believe. I believe faith in God is a choice and is personal.

I actually think Venus Flytraps are pretty cool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Symphony

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,745
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,745
My best friends wife,
Like I said in my last post, I believe that faith and a relationship with God is personal. I don't feel that I need to have a label or a group to practice my faith.
Symphony

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,094
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,094
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting Promise Keeper:
<strong> Please don't ever ask me to deny the power and love of Christ. It won't happen. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think people are just asking you to be polite to the folks that do deny the power and love of Christ.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have bet my life on it. If you produce his [sic] body, I will willingly renounce my faith. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm puzzled as to how this would work. Suppose someone produced a 2000 year old corpse (or more likely, skeleton), and said that it was Jesus. What would you accept as evidence? Obviously dental records are out-there weren't any in 1st century Judea, and even if there had been, we don't have them. I don't think there are any extant DNA samples, either . I suppose one could have a forensic anthropologist reconstruct the facial features, but what would that tell us-no one really knows what Jesus looked like, and even if we did, there would be enough room for error that a skull that wound up looking like Him could be a brother or a cousin or some other look-alike. And relying on tell tale signs of crucifixion wouldn't help-I've read that the Romans crucified 250,000 Jews, so that hardly narrows it down.

It sounds to me like what you have really said is that no one can disprove your belief in Jesus to you (and I have no problem with that), but stated it in such a way as to make it sound to the uncritical as if you are open to proof. Or is there some form of identification that you will accept, if someone produces a likely corpse?

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 445
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 445
I am enjoying reading this thread.

(That is all I will add!)

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 25
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 25
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I met Jesus Christ and accepted Him as my personal Lord and Savior, I became a Christian </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HURTING PROMISE KEEPER --- not to be rude but; please stay in your church or wherever you go. I prefer knowing where people who think like you are at all times. Kind of like INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS.

I guess some people are just wired differently. 7 billion people on the planet and lots of different personalities. There might even me some medical or biological or psychological reason why some people are prone to get involved in cults and religions. Some of us are lucky enough to not have that propensity. I don't think it's a choice. Either your brain is organized a certain way or it isn't. No amount of freaky Jesus talk is going to convince "us" and no amount of education or ridicule is going to change you.

I don't want everyone to be the same. I don't want everyone to think the same way. That would be quite boring. That being said, I sure hope I don't ever end up in some xian heaven! Geez, that's gotta be a horrible place to be. No Elvis, No John Lennon, No one can curse, and poor ol' Jesus has to sit on a throne all freaken year, with a bunch of men in skirts singing beside him, kissing his fingers, and he can't touch any of the hot, single, groupy chicks that saved themselves for him throughout history.

By the way, since you are a xian and NOT just religious, does that give you some leeway if you ever sin and go to hell? I mean, will you get some speacial perks like operating the flame throwers on infidels like me?

I am sure you are a nice fellow. And given a choice, I prefer people like you wandering around instead of angry lunatics; but if you can just talk your church into paying taxes, revealing their sources of income, stop the priests from touching little boys, help get "In God We Trust" off of our $$$ (it's only been there since 1954 as a result of the McCarthy hysteria by the way), stop freaking out if non-xians don't want references to GOD in our schools and public buildings, and just minded your own business, you would help drive away some of the hostility xianity inspires in other people. If you are a good person and can encourage other people to be good --- keep at it.

But putting the 10 commandments in court houses is not ever going to stop a single crime! (By the way, there are NOT 10 commandments. There's actually well over 600! And they were all written by Jews over 5,000 years ago and most deal with how to eat an animal and what clothes to wear.

Someone really needs to sue xianity for plagiarism. There isn't a single original thought or idea in the whole religion.

Do you have any idea how many religions and cults throughout history have the same damn story about the "pure man who was born of a virgin and whose daddy was a god and who died for our sins?" IF xianity was real, couldn't god at least come up with an original way to put his little boy on the earth?

And why didn't Jesus get around to inventing something or writing a book while he was around to help PROVE his existence? What kind of game is your god playing? What's with the mystery? Um ... could it be because it NEVER happened?

Let's face the facts --- if there was a god, there would be no reason for religion. We would all know what Mr. & Mrs. God would want from us and what we had to do to join them after we die so we don't end up as just calcium dust.

If people gave us much $$$ to the S.P.C.A. as they did to churches the world would be a happier place. Just exactly how many gold goblets does the Pope need anyway?

By the way, I am a very happy person. But I believe in freedom. "Do what though whilst, so long as you don't hurt anyone." That's my attitude towards life.

Why in the world xians (no one else seems to be doing this) freaks out if homosexuals want to marry or have sex, or people don't want to be compelled to swear on a bible in court, or don't want to say UNDER GOD in the pledge, etc. is beyond me. Back off. Lay off.

How would you like it if non-xians marched in Washington and demanded that our new motto should be "There is no Jesus!" Would you want to use that $$$? No? Well, I cross IN GOD WE TRUST off of every bill I get. Do you think your god is sitting back, salivating in hopes that will burn in hell? I hope so, because Elvis and Errol Flynn are in hell; and I dig those guys. Oh, and I look forward to meeting Winona Ryder there too. She's single and cute --- and Jesus can't have her.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: batoutofhell ]</small>

Page 2 of 10 1 2 3 4 9 10

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 894 guests, and 66 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5