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Originally Posted By: celticvoyager
Originally Posted By: BillCarolina

I believe that my DD is VERY susceptible to her Moms manipulation....and a copy of the Plan B letter to my DD will bypass what my DD will get from her Mothers "interpretation" of the Plan B letter.
How did it EVER come to this?!


Bill,

have you ever asked DD why she hid the A for a whole year and didn't tell you?

I don't want to seem mean here, but it seems that she was complicit and kinda supportive of the A through her silence.

CV


I couldn't agree more.....we haven't gone there yet.....but I'd like to.
DD was forced to choose when she discovered the A.....her Mother lied to her too, DD had to choose whether to believe her Mothers lies or tell me.....she chose Mom.......yep, it hurts!

Last edited by BillCarolina; 10/01/11 05:26 AM.

BH(Me)= 55
WW(Her)=43
DD=24 (My step-daughter, been raising her since the age of 8, SHE'S MY DAUGHTER!!)
Married=13 yrs
Together=16.5 yrs
THIS IS MY STORY
WW moved out of the home = May 1,2011
D-Day=July 4, 2011
Dear Wife: I'm COMPLETELY CRAZY about you!.....as of Aug-2012 forget that last part....Good Luck to you and GOODBYE!!
"Mourn the woman she was. Know the woman she is."
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Originally Posted By: BillCarolina
Originally Posted By: celticvoyager
Originally Posted By: BillCarolina

I believe that my DD is VERY susceptible to her Moms manipulation....and a copy of the Plan B letter to my DD will bypass what my DD will get from her Mothers "interpretation" of the Plan B letter.
How did it EVER come to this?!


Bill,

have you ever asked DD why she hid the A for a whole year and didn't tell you?

I don't want to seem mean here, but it seems that she was complicit and kinda supportive of the A through her silence.

CV


I couldn't agree more.....we haven't gone there yet.....but I'd like to.
DD was forced to choose when she discovered the A.....her Mother lied to her too, DD had to chose whether to believe her Mothers lies or tell me.....she chose Mom.......yep, it hurts!


I'm sorry for this, Bill. My heart and prayers are with you.

CV


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3 young adult children


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Does Plan B include my In-Laws?
They are very guarded about what they say to me.....and they don't ask me about my schedule to convey to my Wife. (Just a reminder that the Wife and I live apart)
Do I Plan B them too?


BH(Me)= 55
WW(Her)=43
DD=24 (My step-daughter, been raising her since the age of 8, SHE'S MY DAUGHTER!!)
Married=13 yrs
Together=16.5 yrs
THIS IS MY STORY
WW moved out of the home = May 1,2011
D-Day=July 4, 2011
Dear Wife: I'm COMPLETELY CRAZY about you!.....as of Aug-2012 forget that last part....Good Luck to you and GOODBYE!!
"Mourn the woman she was. Know the woman she is."
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Originally Posted By: BillCarolina
Does Plan B include my In-Laws?
They are very guarded about what they say to me.....and they don't ask me about my schedule to convey to my Wife. (Just a reminder that the Wife and I live apart)
Do I Plan B them too?


Bill,

I plan b'ed my inlaws, but never my wife. Do you have reason other than they seem guarded? If they are triggers for you, or are hurting any attempts at reconciliation, then yes... cut them out.

CV


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I've been wondering about this too Bill. I have sort of just drifted into Plan B'ing mine and they have not initiated contact.

When my b'day passed without contact I took that as a hint that I am no longer part of their lives... sadly even my god daughters I guess.

For me the lack of contact suggests that they are not supportive of me or the marriage, so Plan B should remain in effect. However, CV has a good suggestion... if they are not triggers or hurting reconciliation, maybe I have been too quick to judge in my own hurt. Thing is, I am now so dark in Plan B I haven't a clue if they are supportive of the marriage or the affair, LOL!

I will be following the advice and experiences from others...


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
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Originally Posted By: BillCarolina
Does Plan B include my In-Laws?
They are very guarded about what they say to me.....and they don't ask me about my schedule to convey to my Wife. (Just a reminder that the Wife and I live apart)
Do I Plan B them too?


Well in my experience, In-laws are ussually the ones that waywards go to for,"Permission", and they are spun a whole different story, than the truth.

If they are against the affair, they are just thrust out of the waywards life, and that seems to be the reason they stay out of it, because they might lose contact with thier baby.

If In-laws are intimidated by your desire to call a spade a spade, and the waywards actions are something they don't want to address, then they are still attached to the wayward as parents that are having a hard time expecting them to grow up, and act as adults. Plan Bing them is not nessesary, unless they are FOR the affair, then I would say sure, they are as messed up as the wayward.

If they have been informed about the affair by you, and have not responded with support for you and the marriage, I would say they were being buffaloed into thinking the wayward had some good reason for it, or are just to thick to realize they are adding to the problem, by being silent.

Make sure they know what the truth is, by letter preferably, so they can read it when they have the guts for it, and you don't get caught up in the emotional trauma of telling them how "bad", their wayward offspring has been. Then if no response, then no need for plan B, just now you know what camp they are in. If they support the affair, then yeah, Plan B them.

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Hi Mr BC

sorry to hear its not going so well for your M. Listen to the people here they have so much experience and knowledge.

Your daughter is and will be greatly affected by her mums behaviour. I know I was. I have sort of written about this some time ago and my Mum knows about it, just updated a bit. I have friends who don't understand how devastating an affair is to a whole family. To those who have never been through this its like "it didn't happen to YOU so why are you so touchy about it?"

Like *edit* it didn't happen to me!!! My mums affair happened to me, my brother and my Dad and my grandparents and my auntys and uncles, it happened to ALL of us, perhaps especially because we are all quite close, well especially all the girls in the family. And as far as I can tell comparing my girlfriends and their mums, at that time of a mid teen, I had a pretty close relationship with my mum. She killed that for a year or so.

What did the affair actually DO to me?

Well first of all it HURT that my mum was a *edit*, because that was what I thought of her at the time. I think I actually hated her. I was full of that self rightous 14 to 16 year old girl teen angst. I wanted dad to throw her out, kick her butt and make her go away. I could not imagine mum living with us any more, she was to me no better than a street [censored]. And I told her so. Lots of times.

You cannot imagine the ANGER I felt. How DARE mum do this to dad, to us, that *edit*. That was my feeling my life then.

There was also a part of pure selfishness that came to the forefront of my emotions, I actually felt that I was ENTITLED to do pretty much what I wanted because I wasn't going to listen to THAT cow any more. The normal teen rebellion was like 300 times plus. I can admit now that you could say I was pretty much a *edit* myself at that time. And I didn't care.

There was virtually no relationship between my Mum and I for some time. If she had left or Dad divorced her I'm not sure if I would have wanted a relationship either. Affairs can harden your heart against forgiving and I think thats more so for the children. Often at that age you see only black and white.

You feel you have to choose between your parents. I could easily have gone the other way and blamed dad for being away so much of my life (hes a soldier). I can see that now days easily.

So you see the anger was out of control because I hurt and because I didn't know what to do or how to make things right, nor how to respond to what my mum did. I sometimes wondered if it was my fault in some way. No one else really knew what to do either except to have Dad divorce her or treat her like crap forever and a day.

I entered this strange stage where I felt my own self worth was nothing. I even went through a time of letting myself be treated less than I or anyone should accept by some crap boyfriends. I was not sure why I felt that way except to say my condifence in anything was pretty well shot.

It was a hard time and I was so disgusted with Mum. I had no idea what the outcome would be except if they split I wasn't going with her. Mum had bought her own ticket to damnation and I wasn't having any.
I also said a lot of things to her and called her a lot of names. Not proud of that now but then I was SO SO angry at her and I wanted to hurt her for doing this to us. I had little, no none, no respect for my Mum for some time.

She just didn't cheat on dad, she cheated on all of us including herself.

My sense of secuirty in my family disappeared. I was cynical and to a degree thats still true. I felt very much that my world was falling apart around me. It has affected me in my own personal life to this day.
When I met my darling husband (Yeah you guessed it, a soldier) I was very very reluctant to enter into a firm relationship. I was extremely hesitant to commit to this man, who even my whole family agreed, adored me and loved me. I hurt him by doing this.
He wanted to marry me and I wouldn't do it because I thought marriage was dangerous and that it was usual for you to get hurt by the person you loved most. I was deeply wounded by Mums affair in my own heart. I just couldn't see myself marrying anyone ever, I was too scared.

I lived with my future husband for about a year in my parents home, and never understood why they let that happen for such a long time. I never understood just how smart my Mum and Dad were. I did adore this man of mine, I gave him my heart, everything but a true and final commitment, because I was frightened, and Mum and Dad led me to the commitment of marriage by example and heaps and heaps of patience.

I watched my mum and dad fight for their marriage and wondered many times why either of them even tried. And it never ocurred to me that I was one of the reasons.

My mum strangely enough gave me the Marriage Builders web site and bought the books on marriage recovery and creating and preparing for a loving marriage and how to affair proof your marriage.

It was like a door opening to me, at last I could understand how and even in some sense why Mum and Dad fought to keep their marriage. And how totally overwhelmed a spouse is when one of them cheats. (Man I'd kill the *edit*.)

And yet as I began to understand the methods of repairing and even preventing affairs in a marriage my fear or most of it drained away. I never saw how much my fear controlled me until then.

I also learnt a lot about forgiveness and remorse. I grew up a whole lot. Well I'm still doing that I guess. When my darling husband asked me again as he did once a month to marry him, actually in a resigned and hopeless manner I have to say, I accepted so fast he didn't know what hit him.

And the affair fallout hasn't gone away. Lots of independent behaviour between us. Working on it. Dr H gave me advice man hes tuff.

There is still, not an anger, but a residual regret, within me that Mums affair stole away that time between her and myself when I needed her and God knows where I would be without my Nan being there. Yes Mum has more than demonstrated her total new commitment to her marriage and our family, even to the extent of allowing my now husband to show me in a safe environment that marriage was indeed safe and I would be ok, even if no guarrantees. Yet still I regret that lost time. So does Mum.

And yet my mum is now one of my hero's. She has shown me how to fight for what you love even when flat on the ground and beaten down by your own actions. How to keep on fighting for the love of the kind of men we have both married because that is hard. How to admit to your own failings and look the world in the eyes with the regret and remorse you have and still move forward and take action to save the love you nearly threw away, all the while knowing that one single 'NO" decision would have avoided all the loss and pain.

The affair just keeps on giving and giving, the presents we don't want, and all of us have to live with that.

So don't anyone tell me it bloody didn't happen to me.

Mr BC your daughter will go through some of this, for her there are no winners no silver linings, she just loses and gets forced to be piggy in the middle and probably can't talk to any neutral person with decent amounts of life experience.

My guess is she doesn't say anything because then she has actively chosen between you and while it may be clear to many that its the right thing to do, its not for her. She's just scared stiff of losing. And I think her mum is not above using her either.

please look after yourself Mr BC




Last edited by MBSeasons; 10/05/11 01:26 PM. Reason: TOS; language; bypassing profanity filter
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Thats an awesome post Awsdaughter..

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Dear awsadughter,

Words alone cannot let you know what YOU have done for me this day.
All I can do is Thank You for sharing your experience through your own pain and your own personal recovery.

I have had to stop repeatedly during THIS POST due to my own tears and my own new UNDERSTANDING of just what my own Daughter might be going through.
Your words have been such a gift to me!
THANK YOU for sharing! Because of YOU I can hopefully help my Daughter.....and maybe myself.
My Wife has put herself on her own.....maybe one day my Wife will understand what she has done...and maybe see those who still Love her, and who is STILL on her side (DD and I).....but NOT as a Crazy Woman!!

THANK YOU AGAIN!!!


BH(Me)= 55
WW(Her)=43
DD=24 (My step-daughter, been raising her since the age of 8, SHE'S MY DAUGHTER!!)
Married=13 yrs
Together=16.5 yrs
THIS IS MY STORY
WW moved out of the home = May 1,2011
D-Day=July 4, 2011
Dear Wife: I'm COMPLETELY CRAZY about you!.....as of Aug-2012 forget that last part....Good Luck to you and GOODBYE!!
"Mourn the woman she was. Know the woman she is."
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Hey Billy, How ya doin

Tell me you are not sitting in the corner drinking gin by yourself?


Just want you to know I'm, and many other friends are thinking of ya.


If you are sitting by yourself in the corner prepare to get a beating!!!!!@!


Tell me, what are you doing for yourself, so I can remove the glue from my eyeballs and get out and help myself?!


Me: BH 40
WW 39
S13, D9
Married 15 yrs together 19!!!
D Day July 11,2011
WW in P.A. with OW
WW wants D
Almost done
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Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
Hey Billy, How ya doin
Tell me you are not sitting in the corner drinking gin by yourself?
If you are sitting by yourself in the corner prepare to get a beating!!!!!!


The couch is in the MIDDLE of the room for your information!!
And it's been a beotch of a day.....HEAL THE SICK! HEAL THE SICK!!....all day long! I deserve my Gin!
.
.
.
.
.
How'd I do?

Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
Just want you to know I'm, and many other friends are thinking of ya.
Tell me, what are you doing for yourself, so I can remove the glue from my eyeballs and get out and help myself?!


Thanks so much!!!.......for myself?.....the Sport that I love so well is kicking in with the cooler weather arriving here in the Carolina's over the last few weeks......some BIG events here in the near future, getting ready for those!
The support that I get from my Friends in the sport has been wonderful!
The questions from them about the Wife get fewer and fewer.....They know the truth.....their support for me has been overwhelming....and it helps!!
I keep sending texts to my Daughter.....and I keep getting ignored.....it's her choice.....I believe she's hurt worse than I could understand......awsdaughter's post (just a few posts back) helped me understand just HOW AFFECTED my DD might be.
I'm just going to give my DD some time and some room.

I'm looking for a Church.....getting to Sunday Services regularly.....trying to get right with my Lord.

Some Friends are trying to "fix me up".....I'm not ready for that. How do I tell them to back it down?

Do I still get a beatin ?!?!

Thanks for your motivation and for the Friendship!
This IS the worst......isn't it?
But.....the Sun rises each day.......my Friends keep supporting me......the Plan B letter is coming....a word at a time.
THANKS

Last edited by BillCarolina; 10/07/11 10:42 PM.

BH(Me)= 55
WW(Her)=43
DD=24 (My step-daughter, been raising her since the age of 8, SHE'S MY DAUGHTER!!)
Married=13 yrs
Together=16.5 yrs
THIS IS MY STORY
WW moved out of the home = May 1,2011
D-Day=July 4, 2011
Dear Wife: I'm COMPLETELY CRAZY about you!.....as of Aug-2012 forget that last part....Good Luck to you and GOODBYE!!
"Mourn the woman she was. Know the woman she is."
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Lol well those well intentioned friends just don't get it

This can take years to heal

But it's great that you have support, and that will help with the healing process

Be good to yourself bill, you will not regret it in the long run

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Originally Posted By: BillCarolina
[Some Friends are trying to "fix me up".....I'm not read for that. How do I tell them to back it down?


Ive had struggles with this one. If you say 'Im not ready' they take you for being coy and think you need a push.

People have only really listened when I have said firmly that I will NOT date while I am still married. If I was truly ready I would have filed for a D (though I have done his since for legal reasons, my friends get it now). If I take my time to heal, I can have a good time with a new bf instead of using him as a shoulder to cry on.

I also say that I would never date someone else who was hedging on whether or not to stay married - so I dont want someone who thinks it ok for ANYONE - or for me to do it.

If they get worried about you, tell them yes, you are giving your ww a window of opportunity so you have no regrets, but you wont wait for her forever.

They can fix you up when and if you say they can further on.

Plus its nice to know you have options!


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Yeah indie, your right of course, but his friends are out to fix it, and they probably don't talk much about feelings

Just know when to shut them down bill, so you don't have to explain crap to them, really, because they are not in your skin

The western culture of men do not talk about feelings much, and I find that very disturbing, but what bill will. Be going through, will nmot end with gaining another woman will not fix, and his yearning for relationship will have to come back in it's own time, and for the right reasons

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Well Bill sorry so long b4 response
been wallowing a bit
Spending lots of time w/my kids, just trying to be there
Glad, so glad you are getting out and enjoying some parts of life

For me, finally coming to the realization that I have been a giant pus*y, pushover, enabeler, passive, stinkin doormat of a man, if you would call me a man. In the desire to be the best husband one could ever want, I have been willing to let her have everything. She now has lawyers involved, and I am still being the sweetheart she dated. Now that the first meeting looms(2 attys and us 2) she is actually hugging me, and it feels like she is actually missing me..
next wk we have the meeting and then her lover flys in and they go rendezvous....I think its time to re-expose, I have nothing to lose, and I think its time I grow a pair. We will see if I have the guts to go through w/it I really have nothing at this time to lose.

As far as the 2 x 4, I will hold off!, sounds like you are moving in the right direction.

Your daughter will come around when she does be there.

As far as the friends trying to hook you up..... yeah I have that problem too. Thanks but I need time, Still want things to work out with sh*t for brains right now. That seems to work for me.

As far as the gin is concerned Way Way too much of that for me right now, Saturday morning was my awakening that I was using it as antidepressant # 2. Not a good plan, so I took the pledge.

My WW said the other day "Life sucks" and I looked her in the eye and said, It absolutely does not" Every day is a good day some are just better than others.

Keep the faith, Find that church!

Love Morterman's closing line.
If Jesus is your co-pilot, you need to change seats

Last edited by tryingtofeelgood; 10/12/11 01:56 PM.

Me: BH 40
WW 39
S13, D9
Married 15 yrs together 19!!!
D Day July 11,2011
WW in P.A. with OW
WW wants D
Almost done
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Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
Spending lots of time w/my kids, just trying to be there...


hurray

Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
As far as the 2 x 4, I will hold off!, sounds like you are moving in the right direction.


I escaped a beating!!! pray Thank You Lord!!

Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
For me, finally coming to the realization that I have been a giant pus*y, pushover, enabeler, passive, stinkin doormat of a man, if you would call me a man. In the desire to be the best husband one could ever want, I have been willing to let her have everything.
....and I think its time I grow a pair. We will see if I have the guts to go through w/it I really have nothing at this time to lose.


OK......now it's MY TURN with the 2x4!
Go ahead......make the realization of YOUR issues and enabling and your part in not meeting her E.N.'s.....and then STOP beating yourself up!
Or......I'll put a beating on you!
My Best Pal Tom made the following comment to me this last week:

"I have watched you beat yourself up for three months....you have fully identified and accepted your deficiencies in your Marriage ..... now, it's time to FORGIVE YOURSELF!"

That hit me like a fist......and Tom was right.

Here's my message to you TTFG: It's time to FORGIVE YOURSELF!

You are working the MB Plan for you and your WW.....and being the Dad your kids need. BRAVO!!.....now STOP beating yourself up! Offer forgiveness to that man you see in the mirror.


Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
Your daughter will come around when she does be there.


Maybe she will.....I hope so. I'm just a bit disappointed in her for ignoring me.

Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
As far as the friends trying to hook you up..... yeah I have that problem too. Thanks but I need time, Still want things to work out with sh*t for brains right now.


How's this for a Hypocrite: My WW won't even communicate with me because she's mad at me for exposing HER AFFAIR to her Family and our Friends!
How's that for blame-shifting?
At least your WW talks to you!
Maybe I AM better off than you?!?!

Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
As far as the gin is concerned Way Way too much of that for me right now, Saturday morning was my awakening that I was using it as antidepressant # 2.


I understand.....I was drinking too much...I've cut back.
I haven't had to take an anti-anxiety pill in over a week!
The pills I was given for sleep....I'm breaking them in HALF!....and getting good rest!!! hurray

Originally Posted By: tryingtofeelgood
Keep the faith, Find that church!
If Jesus is your co-pilot, you need to change seats


Every day......I pray for my WW and DD......open their eyes to your Will Lord.......open their hearts to your Love Lord.....Lord wrap your arms around them so they can feel your Love and your guidance.
Only God can change them.
I have to leave them in His care.
TTFG.....YOU are a MB Warrior!!!......and I am proud of you!


BH(Me)= 55
WW(Her)=43
DD=24 (My step-daughter, been raising her since the age of 8, SHE'S MY DAUGHTER!!)
Married=13 yrs
Together=16.5 yrs
THIS IS MY STORY
WW moved out of the home = May 1,2011
D-Day=July 4, 2011
Dear Wife: I'm COMPLETELY CRAZY about you!.....as of Aug-2012 forget that last part....Good Luck to you and GOODBYE!!
"Mourn the woman she was. Know the woman she is."
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I can't remember what thread I read this prayer:
Lord, take her, break her, save her.

Thank you Bill for your kind words.

Hope yor day was a productive one!


Me: BH 40
WW 39
S13, D9
Married 15 yrs together 19!!!
D Day July 11,2011
WW in P.A. with OW
WW wants D
Almost done
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I think a more proper response is not that God will change them, but they will change if they go to God.

Make sense?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
I think a more proper response is not that God will change them, but they will change if they go to God.

Make sense?


SURE IT DOES!!
God will do what is needed to change their circumstances to suit HIS purpose.
And when they are in the furnace....they'll change!
What will we (I) do in the meantime?


BH(Me)= 55
WW(Her)=43
DD=24 (My step-daughter, been raising her since the age of 8, SHE'S MY DAUGHTER!!)
Married=13 yrs
Together=16.5 yrs
THIS IS MY STORY
WW moved out of the home = May 1,2011
D-Day=July 4, 2011
Dear Wife: I'm COMPLETELY CRAZY about you!.....as of Aug-2012 forget that last part....Good Luck to you and GOODBYE!!
"Mourn the woman she was. Know the woman she is."
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Originally Posted By: BillCarolina
Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
I think a more proper response is not that God will change them, but they will change if they go to God.

Make sense?


SURE IT DOES!!
God will do what is needed to change their circumstances to suit HIS purpose.
And when they are in the furnace....they'll change!
What will we (I) do in the meantime?

Plan B Bill, we'll follow the MB plans.


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
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