OK,out of respect for the moderator's guideline, let's look at things in a bit more positive light then.

Well, I think the 1st A, 4 yrs ago, was not handled properly. One of the golden rule of R is "NC", which was not done that time. Although WW may claim that she never talked to OM afterwards until the last day at the job, I frankly do not believe that. She apparantly had such strong crush on him to the point of asking her H to let her sleep with him? And, yet she managed not to exchange any word with him after the 1st d-day for over 3 yrs? I find this hard to believe. My suspicion is that there was some kind of minimal contact at least going on all throughout. Maybe sporadic, maybe under more like controlled EA state. Regardless, the failure of not enforcing a strict NC then was a giant mistake. This NC would have meant quitting her job of course.

Even if she indeed never talked to him, NC in the form of quitting job, would have eliminated the need to say the final farewell which started the 2nd A.

So, now with her being in new job, NC would be much easier to enforce and be kept, and she sounds very committed to R at this point with sincere remorse, which was another element lacking the first time around.

This may sound unorthodox, but I suggest this. Ask her to take poly to make sure this is indeed the only indiscretion she ever had. Thru poly, check if she indeed did not have the contiuous EA or PA before the date they reconnected. Check if she indeed stopped contacting him. Also, check if she still misses him, which I am sure she will fail.

I am a big advocate of Poly. Poly has many added benefit people do not give credit for. It is an embarassing experience to subject oneself to such invasive tool, and it is an experience to remind her that it can be used again in future to dig any more discretion, thus can be a psychological deterrant of a sort. The aspect of embarassment works as a form of punishment as well. Punishment sounds bad, but you have to remember there has to be a consequence to such atrocious behavior. Also, on top of that, it detects lies or confirms the truth.

As for your resentment, there is no easy answer. The only advice I can give you is there is no reason to rush D, even if that is truly what you want. Why don't you give yourself 6 months to a year and decide? D is very hard with kids, but you have the "luxury" of not having to worrry about such and can walk away relatively easily anytime you decide to. So, do not put pressure upon yourself to make decision so urgently.

If you just cannot stand the sight of your W, then I would suggest separation for a while, but if things are not that bad then you might as well stay together feeling things out. Right now your mind is a jumbled mess and must be very confused. After some time, you may regain some composure to think level-headed to decide whether to R or D.

I am sorry you are in this pain, but remember there are many out there who had truly horrific situation and yet still managed to pull thru a successful R. You are not alone.

Just wanted to point out that Harley does not recommend separation except as a last resort because it increases the risk of divorce. He should only separate if he decides to divorce. (or go into plan b) If he decides to stay married and "can't stand the sight of her" then he should most certainly not separate in order to overcome that. Separation would make it worse, not better.

Well, my statement may have come across the wrong way, but I was indeed advising him to stay together with her unless he really cannot help it. I totally agree separation is rarely helpful to bring two people together. It usually is counter-productive and brings about more wedge between them.

Having said that, it is still his decision. Only he knows what and how much he can tolerate.

Of course it his decision, but if he decides to stay married then separation would be counterproductive and would not be a MB recovery tactic. We would help him with a MB plan of recovery if that is his decision.

There have been some people here on MB who have successfully recovered from a LTA. It's not common, but it does happen.

I absolutely agree, Neak. There are several cases (including your citation of SchoolBus's case) in which LTAs with EA and PA components were reconciled....

AND IN EVERY CASE THAT I KNOW OF, THEY INVOLVED WHs, NOT WWs!

Shall we start listing the cases of BHs posting here who went through six months, ten months, or YEARS of struggle, even effectively breaking up the affair, only to find that the WW's response is (paraphrasing), "Okay, I can't have HIM, but I certainly don't want YOU!" No, on second thought, it would take too long. Instead I'll ask you to supply one to support your position. After that I'll list the dozens that support mine.

I am VERY MUCH pro-marriage. I think it's the ideal form of domestic existence. I support the idea of Medavoy having a loving, caring wife, with whom he can share all the joys and efforts that life offers and demands. That said, I would urge him to find such a mate, and the best way to get there is jettisoning the flawed model he's currently saddled with.

Regardless of the odds of what his wayward wife will do, the plans are for his recovery, not hers.

Plan A gives him the opportunity to straighten out any regrets he may have about the r. It gives her a chance to straighten up or ship out. Plan B is a healing opportuntity where the bar is set high for her return so as to prevent a false recovery. He can heal himself through the plans while she either remains wayward or agrees to do the work.

There is always a chance a wayward will remain wayward. I dont see why calculating the odds is a concern when the plans will help him regardless.

I think you should go to Plan B in order to get your thoughts straight.

Yes, this is a marriage building site. Can you save it? Possibly.

All I can do is tell you that you really have to take into account her ability to commit to never speaking to OM again and how much of a chance you wish to take on having kids with this woman and dealing with this again.

Chew on it all in Plan B, then choose your path.

I am going to take a more positive note. I've been reading and not posting, but will just add my thoughts and own experience here...

My wife cheated 2x at 2 different jobs over the span of 6 years (though both were relatively short A's).

Is it hard to recover after multiple affairs? Heck yes! Is it impossible? Heck no! BUT!!!! It takes two to tango here... She has to be a million times committed to recovery at all times. Anything less than full commitment will be disastrous. Anything less than full compliance to the (strict) rules of no contact, EP's, meeting en's. She must be willing to account for her time in 5 minute increments and have 100% full open and honest disclosure on everything.

She MUST be 100% on board with the recovery plan or it will fail. And most of all.... She MUST be proactive in taking the burden of fixing what she screwed up, providing restitution where possible and compensating you fairly.


CV

IF she is willing to do that, and you are willing to walk, run, crawl next to her during the recovery process, you can survive, thrive and enjoy a life together. But it will require her to become virtually a new person.

Remember to take the time to mourn the death of your "old" wife. It is an important part of recovering with the "new" one... And it will be hard because your new one will have the same mannerisms, looks, smell, voice...

I'm going to jump in, here, with my two cents.

In my opinion, Mike's WW is not a serial cheater. She was unfaithful with one man. The A may have ended upon discovery, but it started again because the conditions surrounding it didn't change. It appears that the marriage continued on in its pre-affair state, which always leaves it vulnerable to resumption of an affair, or the beginning of another one.

Mike, whether you stay with WW is your call. But because you are still early into this, I would advise you to consider recovering this with your WW, using Marriage Builders tools. You can find those on this site. I would also strongly advise you to order the book "Surviving an Affair" which can be found in the bookstore on this site. You can also get it at Amazon or possibly at your public library.

You have indicated that your WW does not want to end the M and appears to be remorseful for her actions. When you say you 'gave her another chance' it sounds like you simply told her to not do it again, or you would divorce her. Is that correct? Because 'don't do it again' doesn't eliminate the conditions that makes a spouse vulnerable to an affair.

I think you can recover this, but it's going to take work from both of you. Would your WW consider counselling with the Harleys?

Mortarman

Now feel free to list as many who didn't succeed as you want. I never said the odds were good, just that there is a chance if both are willing to work at it.

I'm sure there are other success stories with BH's and LTA's. Maybe someone who regularly posts to BH's can provide some other models.

There haven't been that many LTA's on the board in my experience. But the ones that have recovered are the ones that dived right into this program. *ANY* affair cannot be overcome if the WS does not completely commit to this program of recovery, LT or ST affair. Of course the marriage is not going to recover unless the couple uses this program.

This is why I told him that unless she is fully on board, he is wasting his time. His marriage can recover. But there has to be an equal committment. Too often, the definition of success for some BH's is just staying together and as a result, they end up with a rotting fish. To them that is success. That is sure not Dr Harley's definition of success.

The advice that Dr Harley gives to LTA's is not much different than regular affairs but he does say they "are not easy." Here is one radio clip I found http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=1078

And then a post over on the private forum:

Mortarman fought hard for custody, which was the catalyst for the WW to open her eyes.

There's no kids here. There's nothing to fight for other than a marriage that has had multiple affairs (with same OM).

If this marriage is to recover, it has to be rebuilt from the ground up and from scratch.

I think you should go to Plan B

CV, you, and several others, have endorsed a Plan B for this poster. There may be some value in a Plan B before a Plan D (if only to get the betrayed spouse oriented to not having the wayward around).

Okay, fine. Now, and I'll repeat the earlier question, which no one has had the answer to, yet:

How does one implement a firm Plan B living in the same domicile with the wayward?

Without an answer to that, or a cogent, implementable plan on which spouse leaves, the "Do a Plan B" suggestion is just a platitude.

Well, that's the same question every BS who is still under the same roof as their WS has to ask themselves.

The solutions are many and varied. All of them involve separate living quarters. By it's very nature, the recommendation for a BS to go into Plan B also includes bringing about a separation of physical locale.

HTLD beat me to the answer, which leads to one other element to this.

I would NOT be suggesting Plan D if there were children involved. Why? Because one thing a Plan A/B cycle will do is serve as a educational exercise for those incomplete personalities about what a decent, moral person will do to protect the interests of innocent - in such cases, they themselves.

For that reason, AndyM, TimB, Lost, LM, IS, SMM, BillC, T2S, Strike2, etc, etc, did (are doing) the right, noble, and courageous thing by waging the fight. Young eyes were watching....and learning.

Sounds like Clinton saying I did not have sex with that woman.
But how did Monica pull out the dress out of the closet will Clinton's semen on it?

Any way can any marriage be saved, usually, even this one, but, this one has a track experience that shows the odds of recovery won't stick.

Then when doc H points out when multiple afairs, still young, no kids, best to pull the plug. I don't see how to point this out is anti MB. This is not saying don't attempt recovery but the odds are higher against success.

To not point this out is a diservice to all BS's.

That advice falls under I wouldn't do that if I were you that people have given that knew better or been there, done that, got the t shirt to prove it.

Absolutely. And that is a very big "if", one that rests almost entirely on WW and what she is willing to do.

Time will tell if she's recovery material or not. Personally, I long thought Mrs. Mortarman was a lost cause. Regardless of what actually caused Mrs. M's defogging, that it happened at all has made me more cautious in my predictions of who will and won't succeed.

Although I don't try and forecast who will ultimately come around and who will stay a brain-scrambled alien, I'm absolutely a hardliner when it comes to trying R with a spouse who is not on fully on board. It shouldn't be attempted until the WS is ready to swallow the whole enchilada.

Good, balanced advice, IMO.