One doesn't implement Plan B when they live together, that is an oxymoron. The first step would be to separate obviously.

The first step would be to separate obviously.

Good. Agreed.

Now, who moves? Who stays in the marital home, and who suffers the disruption and loss of leverage in any resulting dissolution action by leaving. As the respected author of "Men, Don't Leave Your Home", I would assume you would support forcing the WW out, right?

Uhhhh, how does one DO that, especially in the estrogen-soaked civil environment we (sadly) inhabit?

Let's cut right to the chase - No WW relocation = no Plan B. No Plan B leaves only.......Plan D. Seems like we spent a great deal of time getting back to my original premise, folks!

I am not trying to condemn the people you have listed, so I will state this is general terms. Do you have any examples of people who did a stellar Plan A, and then entered a DARK PLAN B?

This isn't about the gender differences. The only difference that DrH allows for gender is the length of Plan A. The rest of the program follows the same no matter the gender. That is the beauty of this program.

We could also list a bunch of BW's who have done stellar plan A's and Plan B's and their WH left, and never looked back. What does that prove? It doesn't mean a dern thing.

I would suggest a stellar Plan A, with plans made to enter Plan B, and to stay DARK.

I don't have any idea why the discussion jumped to plan b. First off, he hasn't even decided ifmhe wants to stay married and secondly, she has supposedly ended the affair, so plan b would not be warranted. I guess I am not understanding why there is any plan b talk?

To me, this is real cut and dried. He decides whether or not he wants to try and if so, she either gets on board or not. If not, then it should be plan D, IMO.

What am I missing?

The bolded statement (I bolded it by the way) concerns me. Why does it matter it was cheating with only one co-worker? Cheating is cheating. She had sex with him multiple times. Who truly knows how many instances she was with him. She might have been with him many more times than she's admitting to. In that statement above, you're minimizing what she did. It's natural and I understand it. People minimize cheating in all sorts of ways "Thank God it was with just one person", "Thank God he wasn't in love with her", "Thank God there wasn't any backdoor activity", "Thank God they didn't have any threesomes", "Thank God it ended after a few weeks."

Elswyth, I think he doesn't understand that the fact that she had an affair with one coworker indicates she has sloppy personal boundaries with all of them. I have no doubt that she leaves that door wide open and has friendships that consist of personal conversations. It just so happens that this guy did the best job of meeting those needs that led to an affair. If she observed appropriate boundaries around men, in general, this one would not have got through.

And someone who has a workplace affair is a very unprofessional person to begin with. A loose cannon.

Mel,

I was suggesting Plan B not as a means to end the affair but as a means to let him think straight. You�re right, the affair is over.

The questions, if he stays, are this:

What is she willing to do to make sure this never happens again with any man? Will she voluntarily submit to the plan laid out by MB and build the boundaries she hasn�t shown up to now? Is this really worth it? Is she capable of making such a change?

I was once engaged to a woman that was extremely impulsive. She did what felt good, to heck with who she hurt. She�s still a miserable soul who has been married four times. I was blessed to get her out of my life.

Is this WW a person who can change, or is she someone who is who she is and it�s just a matter of time before she does this again?

Medavoy, it may well be a good idea to cut to the chase and ask your WW if she will take a poly.

I think that is about the only way you will get a good assessment of how serious she is about R and how truthful she is being.

If she says no, you know she is still being secretive.

Of course if you are ready and certain that you will go straight to a D, then a poly is moot.

Where are you up to?

Hi! Thanks for all the answers!

To answer some of the questions...

I'm as sure as I can be (in my position) that the first affair and the communication did stop 4 years ago, and it wasn't resumed until 7 months ago when she wrote the "good-bye" letter. Why? Because my wife treated me very well, she was very loving and caring, and I couldn't see absolutely any sign of a possible affair going on. Right from December on (when she told me she wrote the letter), I could see again all signs that a cheating spouse displays. I was incredibly stupid (I am still beating myself) to put them on the stress she might feel at the new job. After all the tornado we experienced 4 years ago, I simply couldn't imagine she would do something like that again - and with the same man who almost ruined our marriage back then (that hurts the most).

Sure - I think most of the posters are right - she was probably in a "low fog" situation, otherwise she wouldn't have written him out of the blue. But I clearly saw the signs 4 years ago, I clearly saw the signs this year (which I've stupidly misattributed to something else) - I just didn't see/feel anything whatsoever in the meantime - on the contrary. Everything checks with the dates she's given me, so I am leaning towards believing this is indeed the case. Of course, why should I trust her now... true. In fact, I distrust her. But that's my gut feeling - she can't control herself very well, so I would have felt it in my gut if something was up.

I agree - I didn't handle the first affair properly 4 years ago. I wasn't aware of the precise steps one has to take in a situation like this. Even now, reading the posts, I don't know exactly what Plan A, Plan B etc are... I will research the website in depth. One marries somebody else and expects to fully trust the other half, instead of going to he pains of affair-proof the marriage etc. Lesson learned I guess.

I am thinking about poly. How does one go about it? Where and how can you take it?

Again, as I mentioned, she gave me all her passwords, e-mail, skype, etc etc. I have access to her phone and to the phone bills with full record etc. So far the NC rule seems to be in place. She is still very remorseful, she says she wants to buy the book and commit herself 100% towards recovering the marriage.

The problem is with me - I just don't know yet if I want to embark on this battle. Some days I feel like I want to give her a chance... some days I feel like running away from her as fast as possible. I can't stand the idea of my wife having sex repeatedly with the same man she promised not to see anymore, of her daily lies, of the incredible level of deceit this year, of broken promises... The thought of her being tender and intimate and loving with another guy, waking up besides him in the morning. I keep thinking, how can she still love me if she did all this? She says she still loves me very much, and she says she knows she was a "monster" and wants a chance to redeem herself and save everything, no matter how long it takes, how hard it is. But these are just words... said after I caught her. She slept with him 30 times, she could have stopped, she didn't for several months. Right now I just want to figure out if I do want to give her a third chance. The thought that I would be stupid to do so keeps bothering me every minute.

Well you have a decision to make. You can probably save this if u want.

And fwiw just because ur wife was treating you good doesn't mean she wasn't involved with POSOM. I learned that mistake the hard way. WW are masters of deception. She has had almost 4 years to drive it very underground.

No way was it over if they worked together not a chance in he!!

WW's actions over time will tell you all you need to know. You will get your best information by watching, not listening.

Start here, http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html and read the articles on how A's start, how they should end, and how to R.

Read lots of stories on here, too. Begin getting a feel for what the fog sounds like, and what a remorseful FWS looks like.

The great thing here is you have plenty of time. There's plenty of time to watch WW's actions, plenty of time to learn, plenty of time to decide what you want to do.

As long as you don't rush into anything, and don't settle for anything less than a full commitment to a whole new lifestyle that doesn't leave room for infidelity to get in, you'll make the right choice. Time and more knowledge really will tell you whether you should R or D.

Let me emphasize my belief that, when there are no children, D is the easier option. Not everyone takes the easier option, and for some it is worth the extra struggle. From your description of WW, it does sound like right at this moment she's willing to do whatever you need to heal, but continue to observe and make sure she sticks with it if you do decide to try and R. She needs a whole new way of life if she is to leave her adultery behind for good.

I think it would be a very good thing for her to post on here, counsel directly with the Harleys, or both.

You have lots of homework to do! Ill try find you some links. Ande remember the key phrase 'trust but verify' NEVER blind trust (like we all did before the A). MBers who have never had an affair are still told to check up on their partner. Everyody makes mistakes, small and large.



Every betrayed spouse feels this way. Around here we call it the rollercoaster - up one day, down the next! You will want to call a lawyer about a D one day then forgive her entirely the next with no strings.

You are not yet in a position to make a decision imo. For one thing it is very early days, for another she has to prove herself to you, pay you just compensation by making any amends you ask her for, before you can begin to feel at all safe.

You are perfectly free to 'see where it goes' and start doing the plans (which will benefit you regardless) and see how well she does in them.

I would start with Plan A, which is to get her to agree to end the affair and agree to all EPs and conditions for recovery. Plan B only comes in if she refuses to meet conditions. We can find you a list of EPS and recovery conditions.

She needs to end the affair officially and go NC, by writing an NC letter (she has indicated that she will - but she needs to DO this, we can put NC letter examples up for you) NC means no contact or sight of OM of any description (is there any chance she will ever run into him? If so that avenue of contact needs to be closed)

You will need to expose the affair to people who will support your marriage and who have influence with her.

You also need to expose to OMs partner/family anyone who can have a word with him and keep him in line. If he has betrayed somebody too they need to know

DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE YOU ARE ABOUT TO EXPOSE.

It will be to her benefit, but if she gets scared she will warn the OM and tell her freinds and family that you are just jealous and not to be believed.

Then I would look into taking a poly by googling providers in your area. If you can tell us where you are located, others on here may be able to recommend somewhere good.

I'm in the New York City area... any suggestions for polygraph tests around here?

In the meantime, my wife keeps begging to try and recover the marriage.
However, the images in my head became more and more vivid as time goes by. Also, the feeling of total betrayal is getting more and more acute.

I guess I need to choose the right path for me... before I consider what concrete steps I should take.

Med, as I said before, I think , since you have no kids, that divorce is the best solution for you. But IF YOU want to save the marriage, I disagree with some of the other posters. If I were you, my actions would depend on hers. Not her words....her actions. IF she takes a Poly (make sure that she follows through), is completely transparent (in everything, no secrets OF ANY KIND)and PROVES her love NOW (we already know that she didn't love you while she cheated), then you might have reason to take her back. But the key is that these must be ACTIONS, her promises and tears mean nothing.

My wife is REQUIRED to prove everything she does, where she goes , who she talks to, what she talks about, literally everything. The main reason we are still together, is that she is not only enthusiatically on board, but wants to show proofs of her love every day, and follows through. We, as a couple, follow the POJA, we communicate and make quality time for each other every day, we are reducing LB's to almost none, and praise and show affection almost constantly. WE are in a much better place now than I could have ever dreamed, even BEFORE the affair. She says that this is what she always dreamed our marriage would be.

I agree with mirrormirror, words mean nothing, she must be willing to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.


I remember feeling this way. I thought that if I did any MB stuff, such as asking for NC or EPs, it was like I was promising him forgiveness - something i wasnt ready to promise him.

I wanted to move staight to Plan FU. But I noticed that often people on here who do that, let the WS back because they miss them too much. Worst of all they let them back without any firm assurances or plans.

Doing the recovery plans simply says - There are no guarantees from me, but if you even hope to have a chance of EARNING my forgiveness, I need to see these specific firm actions from you. If your actions make me feel safer and more like forgiving you, then great.

There is nothing stopping you from starting and then deciding to dump her further on.

I would say divorce her if you feel firm about it and are certain, but if you are not you wont be able to withstand her pleading.

The best way to withstand her pleading imo is insisting it is backed up with actions.

I am in Plan B, I havent seen my H since June and I am doing so great and feeling happy. He was very sorry and threw himself a pity party but he wasnt willing to do any real work and he proved to me that his words were very empty and wishy-washy. He wanted me to stay in the M, but he didnt want to do NC.

I am glad that I gave him the option to either pass or fail my expectations. It means I have no regrets and dont feel tempted to contact him, though I missed him a great deal at first.

Plan B means the only way he can now contact me is by taking the action of writing an NC letter to OW, and since he hasnt done that yet I feel very safe and cheerful and reassured I did the right thing.

You dont have to do MB for her - you can follow it for you, to help you weather the rollercoaster effect.

If she becomes spectacularly repentant and creates an amazing marriage with you - then fantastic, but that remains to be seen from her actions.