I'm new here, but not new to marriage or affairs. My husband has cheated more than once. I am at a crossroads at the moment trying to decide where I go from here. He has issues with telling the truth, even when the truth seems to be the best/easiest way. We had "started over" after I found text messages between the two of them and he told me it had been going on over a year, but just talk and he had never been physically intimate with her. Oh, I am talking about the recent affair. So, after we had gone through only a month of counseling (separately), I found out that he not only had been physically intimate with her, but at my home and my child (married himself) caught them. I say caught, but thank God...didn't actually "see" anything. But, now H is telling me they didn't actually um...well, do the act itself because of the interruption. He acts remorseful and seems to be different "this time". He has gone back to his counselor at his own initiative and vows he has always loved me and he himself doesn't understand why he did this. My children's relationship with him is at a stand still. We have always been an extremely close family. I have told H that I will stand behind him, that he needs to figure out if he is the man he has presented himself to be to those he loves and that love him, or if he is really the alter of the man we have not known and do not want to know. Am I wrong to stay? I want OUT of this house. My mind doesn't stop thinking and wondering, was she here, or there....did she see my children's pictures, my parents pictures...did she walk across this floor...etc. I can't turn my mind off. I am trying to function, trying to help my children muddle through this, trying to hide what has happened and keep my perspective at work and....trying to help him. He is an emotional wreck and humiliated. He and I have gone through the initial information and columns on MB and he acts like he is interested in studying and following the process within MB. Do we have a chance, again? Or should I accept the fact that he can never be the man I thought he was. We grew up together and have been married many, many years even though we are still in our early 40s. Thanks everyone and if nothing else, please pray for my family.

How many bites at the apple are you prepared to give to this loser you're currently married to?

Here's the problem in executing a cogent recovery with him in a nutshell:

He has issues with telling the truth, even when the truth seems to be the best/easiest way.

With that flaw still extant, almost everything you effectuate to prevent his engaging in yet another affair will fail. Get his e-mail passwords? He'll set up another account. Monitor his cell usage? He'll acquire a per-usage cell. Everything he will do to assure you that he is being faithful can be avoided.

So, does he realize that he "has issues with telling the truth", and is he willing to work on that precise problem?

I am sorry you find yourself here. Marriage Builders is a great forum and Dr. Harley's MB program has helped many many marriages survive and recover from affairs. BUT it's a narrow road that cannot be deviated from.

The first thing you need to do is to expose your H's affair to your children. They know something is going on and need to know the truth. Children over the age of four are old enough to understand.

Your H needs to send a No Contact letter to this most recent adultery partner (AP) and never contact any of the former APs.

Your H needs to live a transparent lifestyle with you, including shared passwords, accounting for time and money spent. If he carries a cell phone, you should make sure you have access to it any time you want, and many people install a spy-ware type of program on the phone. Also, a key-logger on the computer is very helpful for accountability.

Together you need to create extraordinary precautions (EP) to prevent another affair. The EPs are non-negotiable. It's what he must do to make the marriage safe for you.

He needs to offer what Dr. Harley calls Just Compensation, which means that he does his work in creating a marriage that is better than it was before. (This would mean, among a host of other new habits, ending the dishonesty forever.)

I would insist on a polygraph test so I could grasp the entirety of the deceit.

Many people in your situation have found that the only way to recover from their spouse's affair was to sell their home and move. Drastic, but so is the pain from a spouse's affair.

A really good way to get started would be sign up for the Online course or get phone counseling from this website.

CanIsurvive, welcome to Marriage Builders.

Are you married? If so, how long? How did his last marriage end?

Who is the OW and if she is married, do her husband know?

CanI,

Of course you have a chance of success, if you both want to rebuild your marriage and you both commit to making it work. There is a huge amount to overcome here, but you can only start at the beginning, as everybody has to.

As a BW trying to overcome my H's long-term affair, I urge you to take the safest, surest route and get your H's agreement to completing the MB online course. Do not try and do this yourselves using the MB materials; it will be to easy to interpret them wrongly, or become discouraged when you face difficulties. If you do the online course, you have permanent access directly to Dr Harley, and you can post your questions or problems for him to answer on the private here. Click the Courses link at the top of every page.

Your H should drop the individual counselling and focus only on the MB coaching, in my opinion. He does not need to look inside himself to find out why he did this or "if he has presented himself to be to those he loves and that love him, or if he is really the alter of the man we have not known and do not want to know". All he needs to do is to commit to being the man he wants to be, and practice the behaviours that create that man. That means acting as if he is married and not tom-catting around with loose women who will have affairs with married men. That means protecting his marriage and YOU. The MB coaching will show him how to do that, and Dr Harley will kick his butt if he fails to do that.

Your children's relationship with him will recover fast if you tell them that you are doing the course and that you are committing to rebuilding your marriage, and also if he apologises to them for behaviour that could have resulted in the breakdown of their family.

Incidentally, why didn't your married son tell you that he had stumbled upon his father in your home with that woman? How did you find out that in fact he had? You need to tell him that he must tell you of anything else he is aware of, or becomes aware of. Your son probably thought he was protecting you, but he needs to understand that he was actually protecting his father's adultery, and that was morally wrong.

You should move house. You are making life difficult for yourself trying to overcome the fact that they were together in your home. I couldn't stay in my house if my H and OW had ever been there; it wouldn't be my home any more. Move house.

I got this from her post:

"We grew up together and have been married many, many years even though we are still in our early 40s. " I didn't see anything to indicate that either had been married before, but I hope she'll fill us in.

I gathered from her post that her married son actually walked in on H and OW attempting sex in her home, but he did not tell her this. The (grown up) children all seem to know about the affair, because she says that their relationship with him has collapsed.

Thanks, SC.

CanI, welcome to Marriage Builders. You've got a lot on your plate. Yes, this can be overcome, but you'll both have a lot of work to do.

Start reading the articles on this site. There's a wealth of knowledge here. Also, order the book Surviving an Affair. Today. Right now. You can get it in the bookstore on this site, or through Amazon or other booksellers.

Your WH, of course, is a liar. It's what waywards do. I second the suggestion for a polygraph to make sure everything's out on the table.

Who is the skank he was running with? Is she married? Do they work together?

I would strongly suggest that you move from that house. It has been tainted by the affair and you will be perpetually triggered just by living there. Short of that, you could consider redoing every room in the place to rid it of the skank's presence there. Moving is probably the best thing you can do.

Do both; the redoing to help you cope in the immediate term (and to help it sell) and the move for the long-term future.

Yes, been married 27 years, he has only been married to me. Childhood sweethearts...blah blah blah. she is married, with children in the home and has a good husband. She is a known cheater but I do not know if he knows about my H. Counselor told me it isn't a good idea for me to be the messenger due to his position in a certain career that could be dangerous for me and my children.

Unfortunately, that is terrible advice. Most counselors are completely inept and ignorant when it comes to saving marriages from affairs. Your counselor doesn't have the slightest idea what she is doing. This should have been your first step. See, affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret from the OW's husband only serves to enable the affair.

The OW's husband should be informed TODAY so he can protect himself and his children from your husband and his sleazy wife. This is information he has a right to know.

My suggestion would be to pick up the phone and call him today. Don't FOREWARN your husband. Start off the call by telling him about the affair and offer to give him the evidence. Make sure he writes down your phone # and email address in case he has follow up questions.

The man has to be told. Not telling him is immoral and is dangerous to your marriage. It also does not help your husband in his recovery to help him hide his crime against this man. Don't be an enabler!

Thank you, your words are very helpful. The answers of my son are that "I believe" he was under the impression that I knew. OR it stems from the fact of the previous affair when he was a small child and it was...well, extremely ugly in my home and H's parents home where H was staying. Our son has many vivid memories of that time and in a way, he was being forced to be that little boy in the middle of things all over again. He didn't actually "catch" them. The circumstances where that it was pretty obvious what his father was up to, but H is very good at covering and my son was trying his best to believe his Daddy was not being that person again. I do plan on talking with him more on the subject but at the moment I am giving him a little time to get through the raw portion of the uncovering. I found out when I caught H in a small lie after we had "recommitted" and made new promises to each other of no lies, no hidden activities, etc. I meant it.....he lied.....I got angry......told him to leave. My son found out we were in the midst of something and told his younger sister he thought H was cheating on me again. He told her what happened that day and she immediately called me. I confronted H.

When Should An Affair Be Exposed?

CIS, if this is his second affair, that means he did not recover from the first one and a more global effort is warranted if you want to save your marriage. I suspect there have been many more you don't know about. I would make it a condition of your forgiveness [one of many conditions] that he pass a polygraph. Give him an opportunity to come clean before the test and hand him a list of questions. Give him one last chance to come clean before the test.

I would not suggest you stand behind him at all unless he makes a radical, 180 degree change in his lifestyle. Apparently, he has very inappropriate boundaries around women and will have to change his life to become so transparent that it would be impossible for him to do this again.

With a serial cheater, EVERYONE needs to know about his affairs. That is because the more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable.

I would give him a chance to earn your forgiveness by demonstrating trustworthy behavior and committing to a plan of recovery. If he won't do that, then you don't have a marriage. But he won't do that unless you raise the bar here.

It is up to you to lead your marriage out of this tarpit. Having no plan is a plan to FAIL.

Set him down and explain to him that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to settle for a loveless marriage. Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. never see or speak to the OW again FOR LIFE - send a no contact letter

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about the affair<s> � passing a polygraph

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. Hee is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage with a serial cheater.

I love your title for her.....I label her beneath a prostitute because she has NO excuses. At the very least, a prostitute needs money. She is a skank....one of those humans that should not be on this earth dirtying up our clean air. I love the concept of a polygraph and I plan on bringing that up. I want to insure I know it all and, let's be honest.....his word is not worth a penny cut in half.

They do not work together, but are in the same profession. Yes, married. She thinks she is all that and a bag of chips and he is older, over weight.

Yes, I want out of that house....and soon.

Thank you for your insight and making me feel not so alone in this!

Whose position - your H's, or OWH? And in what way "dangerous"? Physically? Financially?

It sounds to me as if the counsellor told him that OWH could "do something" dangerous to you and the kids. If that's what you mean, then words fail me that this was the advice.

Are you PAYING this person for such advice?

Is the OWH a pimp, I agree, those guys are dangerous



All others let r rip

Unless the OWH is a hit-man or mobster, call him and let him know what his wife has been up to.

If he is a cop, that is no reason to fear him. If you have a REAL fear he would do that, meet him at the station house and ask his captain to stand outside the door, tell him in a private room, and let him know that if anything happens, you WILL inform the captain that he is harassing your family. Fears like that should be based on REALITY, not on gossip that you have heard from the OTHER WOMAN, though.

Remember, the OTHER WOMAN lied to your husband. She is a liar. She lied about her husband, to get YOUR husband to be interested in her. She probably told your husband that her own husband was mean, hateful, and didn't pay her any attention...blah blah blah....that she was scared of him....blah blah blah....

Her lips moved. She lied.

SB