BH, the thing is that unless you start taking a more proactive approach to saving your marriage, she will have another affair. Second and third affairs are not uncommon in marriages that don't recover. And since you have been wasting away over on Divorce Busters, I know there is no plan there. Having no plan is a plan to fail. Allowing her to linger away in her fog like this with no plan only serves to cement that state of mind. As long as she remains in a state of entitled fog, she will have no reason to return to the marriage.

All you will end up with is a body and not a marriage. Having her dead body in the house is not the same as having a marriage.

Isn't this sort of a ridiculous conversation if she cannot even AFFORD an apartment? How will she afford to fight you in court for that 50/50%? Does she have money for a hot shot attorney?

See, you have her by the balls and have the ability to squelch this fantasy real quick if you will just USE IT. But having these kinds of discussions with her, about 50-50 custody, only serves to FEED her fantasy. That has to stop. I would let her know you are not agreeing to 50/50 and CONTINUALLY POINT OUT THAT SHE DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY FOR AN APARTMENT AND CANNOT SUPPORT HERSELF. Let her know you will fight for 80/20 since she is so unstable. And if she doesn't like that she can hire a hot shot attorney. Oh, and does she have the money to do that?

You have to let her know you will not cooperate with her at all. That will give her second thoughts about this fantasy. cooperating with someone whose goal is to destroy your marriage will result in a destroyed marriage.

I would deflate this apartment plan immediately. Let her know immediately that you are not going to finance her swingin' single life.

I would also suggest you move the family funds somewhere safe so she can't raid them. Waywards have been known to clean out the checking and savings accounts. They will also rack up huge credit card debt to get cash. Close all these avenues asap.

I didn't see where you specifically called OM's wives/friends to let them know.

Call them today so she will not be wanted in that new town especially around other husbands.

I'm a little confused. Why did OM's wife call your WW to inform her of his death? Did she know they were having an affair?

And have you confirmed that this guy is actually dead? Have you seen the obituary?

Neak,

I truly appreciate your support. I have not thought of it as you have, and it is serious food for thought and something for me to look into. I sincerely appreciate the prayers your offered.

BH

Thanks for receiving my advice in the spirit it was given. Her world is coming apart. She needs you to be a rock. She needs to see you consistently doing things that show that you respect yourself and not allow her to manipulate you with tears, anger, or other world experience. Don't be angry and for goodness sake don't cry, beg or plead with her. She is throwing out every idea of where to "look for herself". These are all selfish, childish actions. And her saying "you were just a sperm donor". She is showing contempt towards you. Its dehumanizing and must not be allowed. When she insults you or disrespects you, end the conversation. Oh and the next time she tells you that you were just a sperm donor. Get up in her grill and tell her "that her comment says more about her then it does about you. And that for you to be a "sperm donor" that would make her a "sperm receptacle" and apparently she is willing to be one for multiple men. And I would also tell her that if she thinks shes going to find herself by going heals up underneath multiple partners, all she is going to have is a lot of memories of ceiling designs.

Hi MelodyLane,

You are tough as nails and helping me step outside of the box I was in before posting here. I sincerely appreciate your wisdom. It is hard to see things clearly sometimes when I am so close to it. I understand I need to retake control of this situation from my spouse. To summarize your advice (and this includes the other great posters that have been commenting today):

1. Inform her mom, family of what is going on.
2. Inform her friends of what is going on.
3. Sit her down and explain what continuing on this path will mean and that I will fight her 100% and use all of my resources against her, i.e. it will be ugly, brutal, and we will never be friends again, and I will go for 80/20 custody. Even if I lose, it will be brutal and we all walk away damaged because I am going to fight with blood for our marriage and our kids.
4. Tell her what I want: a romantic, loving, nurturing marriage with radical honesty between both of us. She needs to step up first and earn my forgiveness and do the things listed in your first e-mail to give our marriage a chance, or I will not want to be in a marriage with her and will give her nothing and fight for the kids.
5. No alimony or support at all if she leaves. No apartment, nothing!

Is that the gist of your advise? Is there anything else to think about?

Should I contact Dr. Harley for counseling/coaching before implementing? I am currently using a DB coach once per week. The DB approach has had some results with some 180s and 'as ifs', sort of a partial plan A. But given how the power relationship has shifted with the death of the OM, it seems to be time to go "all in" as you suggest and change approach.

BH

And yes you are correct, we are not seperated as we are living under one roof still.

And you not what galls me more than anything, she actually said crying when the guy died: "I have done nothing wrong, I can't even go to the funeral." This was before she got drunk and I had to take the kids to bed and then hold her head in a bucket the next morning and all night. She still refuses to think she cheated on me and does not call it cheating since marriage is "only on paper" and I decided our marriage ended when i decided to meet the OM!

This was the OM's first wife that called, not his current wife. My wife is distant friends with the first wife, not the second. I do not know how to contact any of them unfortunately.

I have not seen the obituary, as it was out of town.

Our savings and checking are only in my name and I took her cards away. She still has credit cards but you are making me to grab those too when i get back from my trip.

Blackhawk, as you have discovered first hand., the DB approach is very ineffective because all you are doing is enabling her destructive agenda by helping her hide the affair. She doesn't need an enabler, she needs someone to lead her out of the fog with a PLAN. And that is how MB differs from DB: there is an actual plan to save your marriage.

Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has saved thousands of marriages using these tactics and he would tell you that it is very hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. I don't know of anyone who has saved a marriage by enabling a destructive, fogged out, wayward wife.

This affair could have likely been killed a very long time ago and you would be well on your way to recovery if you had not followed the destructive DB advice to help HIDE the affair. Affairs thrIve on secrecy so keeping it a secret all this time has been a major contributor to your wife's fog. It is very RARE to see a WW this foggy, this far out and I know why. She has been surrounded by enablers.

Please don't be a part of the problem anymore, Sir. Be part of the solution and be a leader in your marriage instead of an enabler.

You don't need a counselor to enact the plan I outlined above. All you need is a willingness to start standing up for your marriage. Once you get her commitment to work on the marriage, THEN you might need coaching to guide your recovery.

This is more evidence of her fog. I would be sure and refer to this as ADULTERY at every opportunity.

Does the OMs wife know that your wife was having an affair with her husband? My concern is that your wife has contacted her and this poor woman is not aware that your wife the fox in the henhouse. Is your wife contacting this poor woman?

Frankly, unsure, but highly doubtful. She was getting info from the first ex-wife, not the current wife, plus her best friend who is also I guess enabling this. I do not have anyone's contact info, so difficult to do anything about contacing the friends.

Yes, take anything you can. Of course, if these cards are in her name only she can call her card issuer and get new ones. Don't let that stop you! Hamper her financially as much as you can. Don't be a meany, though. If she needs something dainty from the store, certainly pay for it. When you go with her to get it.If she asks for money to pay the gas bill, pay it yourself. If she wants to buy groceries, go with her and pay for them yourself. Oh, and you can feed her, too.

Go listen to the second radio clip on this thread http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2518985#Post2518985

Dr Harley explains to a man why it is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. I have seen so very many marriages saved over the years from exposure and it is astonishing to me that divorce busters will BAN people from their forum for even recommending it! Dr Harley calls exposure the single most effective way to save a marriage from an affair.

She also has all of these other divorced and remarried friends that I think are her "shining stars" that she began contacting in spring/summer when I guess the EA started and she was searching for rationalizations to act on the EA. They may be ebabling her also.

And what was your response to all this? Did you address her fogginess? Did you point out that if there was nothing wrong with her affair then she should feel free to go?

The point I am trying to make is that part of the reason she is so fogged out is because no one is talking reality to her. That only fuels and cements her fog.

By the way, Blackhawk - don't tell her about this website. We have tools here for killing affairs. You don't want her to know about them or tip your hand in any way to her.

There may be a time when you'll be telling her about Marriage Builders, but that time is not now.