So she came home with a divorce packet tonight, although google maps shows her nowhere near a courthouse, guess maybe someone got it for her? What's the right strategy there?

I don't think it was a keylogger, although I've seen RATs on my computer though she doesnt know how to use them. They may have been getting access or packets some other way. (I'm obviusly not a hacker) Possible that there is spyware on my phone, but it also may be a mobile cell tower?

Hi abe,

Good to have you posting an update.

1. couldn't she have gotten the divorce papers from a lawyer?
2. She's pregnant, be nice to her - you are in plan A - don't accuse or question her.
3. When you mean that the mobile cell tower is spying on you, chances are, you are thinking too much about being spied on, because that thought is not realistic.

If you are unsure if you tend to paranoid too much, because of your own actions in the past and because of her signs that are confusing you, why don't you take your evidence to a certified psychologist and ask them if they think you are:
a. just cautious and careful not to lose your family
b. projecting the guilt of your own affair onto her
c. tending to paranoid thinking.

You know, it is difficult to judge from a distance, not knowing your entire history with your family and not seeing the concrete evidence. You do sound a bit hectic and chaotic here and there though. For that reason, just to be on the safe side talk to someone who is a professional. They will be able to tell if the hectic thinking is from the stress of the affair, or if the stresses of the past year are getting to you in a way that could be really dangerous to your health.

I am an MD myself, but I really think this is something you should let a professional look into, just in case. Just to make sure that you are not focussing on the wrong problem here.

Please keep us updated.

God's blessings,

Happyheart

She WANTS you to fight for the marriage.

So FIGHT.

You need to make arrangements for child care. You need to be ready to take full custody of the children, NOW.

Because you need to write a Plan B letter that basically tells her:

Stop your affair
I will take the children and YOU leave the house
The children will remain HOME where they belong, with me
YOU leave, because the kids and I do not need to suffer because of YOUR affair
I love you, I want to work on the marriage, I am willing to work and change the marriage, I believe in you
You are welcome to come home when you are willing to stop all contact with your affair partner AND go into marriage coaching with me to make this marriage safe from all future affairs

Until that point, there will be NO contact between us. Contact me via ______(intermediary)



Make the point that YOU are making the choices.

She wants a strong man. She needs you to be strong. So far, you are panicked, weak, worried, wondering, and do not know what to do.

She thinks she is in the power position.

Take it from her. Start driving the bus instead of letting her throw you under it.

Thank you very much for the advice, which I am trying to reconcile. I have ordered the books about self-deception. I mentioned this fact last night to my wife, she said "why only now do you realize." I'm willing to fight for my marriage. I don't know if Plan B is appropriate yet. I don't know that there is an affair or who it is with.

For instance, there is the OWW's husband. He has a blog in which he is wearing a "duh, winning t-shirt" and sitting in front of a store which he thinks OW and I visited. He is the same height, color, and same facial hair as me. He posts about ice cream trucks, my kids call me and tell me they just visited the ice cream truck. He posts about liking fish, same day my wife wants fish for dinner. He posts about trail mix, same day my wife begins eating trailmix. He posts about going to Disneyworld, same day my wife wants to go to Disneyworld. He posts about going to Universal Studios, same day my wife wants to go to Universal Studios. His wife posts about going to some special breakfast at Disneyworld, my wife wants to go to the breakfast for her birthday. He posts "you down with OPP now," "you took one of my beers, now I'm going to take one of yours," etc. My wife denies any involvement or talking to him since right after she found out. However, back then she told him "I want to have an affair, too" (he supposedly said "that's not a good idea") and told her that he checked for STDs, was clean, and that she should check also.

Then there is the local "gay?" realtor. He has a blog where he posts smiles, flowers, and rainbows. He loves everyone and everything, including himself. He loves photography and cooking and 80s music, juat like my wife (my wife tells me we have nothing in common, without realizing I like those things too, of course I don't know her/understand her). I repeatedly find his pens in her car, like right after she returned from LV after finding out. He posts a video "taking a load off [OW's first name] mind" right after the story breaks. He has several houses, and as a realtor has access to any house for sale. He puts them in a trust right after I start looking at his assets online. He posts about going to a local beach town for his birthday, and then she tells me that she wants to go there for her birthday. She finds out she is pregnant with our 3rd, and he posts a picture of 3 kids running in his backyard. She finds out that she is pregnant with our 4th, and he posts a picture taking out 4 cookies out of the oven. He reads books about the "law of attraction" and karma, including that "liars will be lied to" and "cheaters will be cheated." He posts scenes from "It's a Wonderful Life." I imagine he is mocking me and generally snarky.

Then there are other possibilities, anyone from her work, anyone from her gym (she says she went to the gym at night every night right after she found out, but gym records show she never went at night), friends of OW's husband. I worry about an ever expanding list of possibilities. I don't want to be chasing windmills.

In terms of paranoid, I even wonder whether other posters are directing their posts to me. For instance, someone posts about financial and radical honesty, and I think it may be written in the style of one of the above persons. And I realize I have not been radically honest. I don't know if I'll ever hear the truth myself unless I come completely clean. Just for instance, I set up a separate bank account to finance a PI, and because she had a separate bank account which her entire paycheck went into (yes, she does pay some bills). I have a separate CC which she does not have access, which at $15K is mostly trips to Hawaii and SF and LV and new wedding rings, but also invesigatory activies. So again the self-deception/investigatory issue.

My therapist says the whole relationship got off on the wrong foot, there were problems before the affair, and that I should trust my intuition and focus on my intentions, not anyone else's intentions. I haven't spoken with her about the self-deception/victimhood issues in depth yet.

I am wiling to fight for the marriage, but not windmills, so my plan is A, to be nice (she is pregnant, suffering from getstational diabetes and "postpartum" depression), to care for myself/kids, maybe hire a PI, but keep myself mentally stable and a hold on reality. I'll trust my intuition but not prematurely/falsely accuse, realize that self-deception/victimhood can play a role in my conclusions, and that others may be playing on my insecurities/weaknesses. I have arrangements for childcare if need be, and can call on my parents. I don't want full custody, but would deal with it if I had to. I can't remember a worse time in my life, though, and I promise to never again make such a mess. I don't know if I can make amends without further hurting her and the OW's husband, but I'll try not to cause anymore harm myself.

Everything you posted could be coincidence. It could also be that OW's H has been tracking your wife's FB acct, and posting things that are similar in nature, only to pester and annoy you.

When you read about self-deception, you will see that you mostly cause your own problems. You place blame on other people, then act in ways against them when you should be acting in their best interests.

You seem to be running in panic and suspicion. Please, see a medical professional. A counselor cannot help you, and books can explain things, but you need to be checked out.


SB

Dear Abe,

Good for you that you are in plan A.
Please remember, that you had an affair yourself and that you have no business looking at the blog of OW's husband. It is not healthy for you, and it is a form of breaking NC.
Also I do not think you are gaining anything by reading the blog of this realtor.

If your wife is indeed having an affair, you will find the evidence, because a person, that is involved in an affair becomes sloppy and careless about it. Nobody is so good, that they won't forget to delete a text message sometimes.
Just stop talking about it, so your wife is not worried anymore. If something is going on, you will find something in her phone with time and with the keylogger on your computer.

If your wife is going away in the evening to the fitness club and really goes somewhere else, that is not acceptable and is not helping your marriage recover from your affair. If the two of you are going to stay married, you will both have to work to meet each others needs and share 15 hous (20+ in the recovery phase) of undivided attention, doing nice things together.

Have you already been able to speak with her to get her on board with MB? The affair was not long ago. Maybe the two of you can read surviving an affair together. Have you tried to go on dates with her and kept the conversation light?

As you have young children, try to get enough sleep and exercise, because it can be draining. Maybe the two of you can do some sport together so that you can have your recreational companionship and you wouldn't have to worry about where she is. Or take the children to play a game outside.

Have you done something romantic for you lately? Does she let you meet her emotional needs?

Good luck,

Happyheart

P.S. If you tend to think that other users are addressing you, that does worry me a bit. Just ask for feedback of your therapist on that, if you're unsure about such things. (2 know more than 1, you know)

I agree with Schoolbus's post!

Thank you for both of your advice. At this point, my wife has withdrawn and refuses to do anything alone with me, doesn't want to do things with the kids, and has refused to go to MC other than a few months after she first found out. I will stop looking at the blog postings. It's not like they will be stupid enough to post a picture of themselves with my wife, anyway. I've been in therapy for the last 2 years, and saw a psychiatrist. I think that much of my paranoia is guilt driven, and much of the other post just sounded exactly like me. Like the other poster, I realize that I habitually self-deceive in order to justify my manipulation of others. For instance, although I am not engaging in any inappropriate behaviors, I still have not told my wife absolutely everything, and I'm afraid that she would leave me if I gave her another excuse. The affair was the major part of an overall sex addiction. I suspect that she or others actually know the truth about how bad it was, but just want me to admit it, or punish me for having the audacity to try to save the marriage and not let her go. That's why my wife doesn't want to plan for the future, and refuses to go to MC and says its my issues. She believes that eventually I will have to admit, or I will engage in some other behavior. I think I was also in denial and deceived in other situations, work, etc., but saw myself as the victim. Even now, on this board, I wonder if I am self-deceiving and hoping others agree with me that my evidence amounts to an affair, or give me advice to discover it, so I can feel right, vindicated and less guilty. So it's complicated, but it would probably become less complicated if I told the truth about everything. She would leave, the marriage would be over, maybe she would even tell me her truths. But I keep thinking that my guilt will go away if I just don't create any new lies or engage in inappropriate behavior. And then I think if I can catch and stop her lies, I can repair or save the marriage. However, in trying to catch her, so as to shift blame, or protect myself, I am also still creating new lies. Of course, she may be blameworthy, but I guess it's better to maintain integrity myself. I'm not brave enough (although sometimes I tell myself I don't want to be unnecessarily cruel) to tell her everything, although she knows that I had an addiction, or to let her go. At the same time, it seems I'm not brave enough to do whatever it might be to save my marriage. However, I'll read the self-deception books, although it's not like a book can be strength, conviction or integrity. I want to live a life of integrity, I'm just wondering how it's possible without losing everything because of what has happened.

Lying just brings on more lies. It is hard to keep track of what you said and so on.
If you lie, sometimes you get away with it, but other times you have to cover up with more lies and if anyone find out (and eventually someone will) they do not trust you anymore. And you still have the consequences. Not only of the first lie, but also from the second, third and so on.

I had a habit of telling 'white' lies to people, but with my husband I made the concious decision to tell the truth every time. And it carries over in the rest of the world too.

If you make the decision to become a man who tells the truth, you become a better person for it. Look your marriage is practically in shambles anyway now. So what did all the lying bring? You had the affair, but got caught anyway didn't you? And now your not happy and neither is your wife. Just make the decision, that, starting today, you will tell the truth. Which also means that if she asks you if you put the letter in the mailbox you don't say: Yes I did (and do it right away next morning) because you think it does not matter and it keeps away stress. Just make the decision and it becomes easy with time, because you have become truthful abe.

Plan A is not to lure your wife back into a marriage, so that you can behave the same way as you did before. No, it is meant to also make you a better person. Just try not arguing with her, asking about her day, bringing her a little present, ofering a foot massage, etc. And you will see that you don't miss yelling at her, or trying to be right, or lying to get off the hook. You will notice in time, that those things don't make you a happy person.

Is there any chance that you can get your wife to do marriagebuilders with you? The two of you have children and are expecting a new baby. If you tell her you want to become a truly good husband and want to have a happy marriage with her, where the two of you can be in love, would she want to give it a try?

I don't know exactly how old your childen are, but little children can take a toll on marriage, because you tend to spend less time togeter, just laughing, having fun, being together.
How much time have you been spending with your wife?
If she refuses to spend time, maybe you can entice her with something that sooths her sore back or anything. You know her best.

Take care,

Happyheart

For your sanity, Abe, Google "The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy," and quit throwing bull's-eyes around the random clusters. Snoop, monitor, do not confront without concrete evidence, and calm down.

@happyheart, thanks, I like it, truthful abe, I'll try it. We have kids, 7, 4, 8 mos and 1 due in Feb., and they've suffered a lot. About the same time she became suspicious in 2008/2009 she moved her mom and nephew in, and I said yes to go along. We have 1400 square feet.

Once I confronted her after recording, she wants no physical contact, glares at me, sleeps on the couch, and shudders if I touch her. I figured that she was punishing me for getting close to the truth, and she hated me for being a hypocrite and stopping her when she is so miserable at home.

She says she has no interest in working on marriage, won't go to MC, so doubt she would do marriagebuilders. She says she doesn't care, what's the use. She says she is moving out at the end of October. I told her about the self-deception books I ordered, and this briefly piqued her interest, and I asked her to hold off on filing papers, but don't know if she will. Part of me thinks that she is trying to push me out and won't file or move.

@ holdherhand, thanks, I'll try to calm down. I'm so exhausted, and I continually feel like I'm being set up for the kill. I'm worried about my ability to sustain my job and provide. I'm continually very close to wanting to give up, thinking what's the use, she doesn't want me, hates me even, as she just keeps saying "why can't you let me go."

Abe, I'll give you a trifecta of reads to help you center and ground - absorb these to center yourself for Plan A;

First, the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy;

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/09/11/the-texas-sharpshooter-fallacy/


Second, Quit Catastrophizing:

http://artofmanliness.com/2010/04/01/building-your-resilinecy-part-vi-quit-catastrophizing/





Third, Be the Rock;

http://artofmanliness.com/2009/09/27/being-the-rock/


Center yourself, read up on Plan A, and proceed.

Thank you, very good advice!