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I found this thread in the archives and thought it worth reviving. I would be interested in hearing opinions on this. I bolded the text I found most interesting I've decided to write about some of the basics of Plan A...
I originally created a post on Plan B… and after having a few sessions with Steve Harley… he convinced me to stay with Plan A… and outlined for me some vital elements that were missing from my interpretation of Plan A. This is what I wish to share with anyone who has an interest. Comments here include my discussions with Steve Harley and may, because of the particulars of my situation, not be appropriate for everyone's situation. Again, this is my take on Plan A.
I welcome as many comments on other points of view... I am not the expert... you've got to go the Harley's for that!
First a few quotes from the book...
quote:
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(#3.) The (betrayed) spouse needs to know that he/she had done his/her best to save their marriage. (page 76 of "Surviving An Affair"(SAA))
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...and...
quote:
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(#4.) If the (betrayed) spouse follows the plans (A & B), and they(the plans) fail, the (betrayed) spouse would no longer have any feelings of love for the wayward spouse. (page 76 of SAA)
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To this end... one needs to note a few important aspects of Plan A...
Both Plan A and Plan B are a cohesive collection of steps that lead one down a very narrow path of marital recovery… They must work together if Plan A does not work by itself.
You start Plan B only after some time in Plan A... a normal amount of time in Plan A could/should be about 6 months... but can be as little almost nothing to much more than 6 months.
Plan B can only be as effective as Plan A was in setting up a foundation for the establishing a "safe" environment for the wayward spouse to return!
That environment created in Plan A must also be "non-threatening", yet "changing" where the wayward can clearly see that there are improvements made in the betrayed's ability to meet the wayward's emotional needs.
Continuing in Plan A is recommended until the wayward ultimately show signs of complete rejection of accepting there have been improvements by the betrayed… and/or the betrayed's feelings turn to one of overt anger… and resentment!
Plan B should be put off as long as possible and builds off the benefits derived from Plan A!
Damaging a good track record of Plan A can be done in as little as one day of Love Busting and what the betrayed remembers is the most recent actions before Plan B!
Plan B has to have a seamless transition from Plan A, because once the betrayed is in Plan B there is no more laying down a foundation!
The main element of Plan A is to have the waiting spouse avoid angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, annoying behavior and dishonesty at all costs! These are the five most common forms of Love Busters!
By avoiding all possible Love Busters there are no withdrawals from the Love Bank of the wayward spouse. Any withdrawals weaken the case for a "safe" environment for the wayward to return to.
In general… anything that would make the wayward unhappy can be deemed as a Love Buster!. One time Love Busters are bad enough… but repetitive occurrences are disastrous.
The wayward defines the Love Buster… not the waiting spouse.
There is an exception that Steve Harley recognizes (as far as a "valid" Love Buster… and that would be, actions needed to protect the waiting spouse and/or children especially from physical harm. These actions, although they may be perceived as Love Busters by the wayward… can not be tolerated!
Additionally "active divorce proceedings" require that only facts (as objectively as possible) be presented to the courts… with honest truthfulness being very important. This, Steve Harley regards as a "gray" area of Love Busting.
The waiting spouse must keep the focus that they are still married. That they still have their spouse!
Deposits into the Love Bank of the wayward should still be attempted…even if the waiting spouse doesn't know the actual needs of the wayward… At a minimum "trial and error" in determining the important emotional needs can be used.
The waiting spouse must reassess their concept of "level of fairness"… and be willing to be the catalyst of all actions needed to improve the chance of recovery. This is sometimes referred to as the "doormat" issue… Having to do it all with no contribution from the wayward… sometimes even to the detriment of the waiting's self-respect/self-esteem…. Steve asks the rhetorical question… "Would you be a doormat for 3 months if you'd get $1,000,000 at the end?"
Avoid those you would suck you into believing your self-esteem/respect will suffer. You will have the rest of your life to rebuild it… if it does suffer. In most cases… doing the more noble action is a builder of self-respect/esteem.
"You have no rights when your married"… if you believe in divorce as not being an option! The taker cannot take over in Plan A! Steve Harley says… at divorce time… if during Plan A you keep your self-respect, and self-esteem as the most important issues… that you "stood up for yourself"… the judge will say "good for you… now you're single!"
Focus must be on building back that passion and realizing that that romantic love is VERY conditional as was the process of falling in love.
For those who pray… should pray for "clarity" of the wayward's mind… and your own "patience and focus".
If you accept Plan A... seek also the support and fellowship of the people on the Forum... you'll need it!
I have a post already on Plan B… see Plan B - 101. My experiences of Plan A and Plan B, and other's here at the forum, are meant to enlighten… not be treated as a replacement for formal counseling.
Jim Found HERE
Last edited by LostNtime; 10/14/11 01:56 PM.
Me = BH
DDay Dec. 2010
D filed Oct 2011 (by me)
D final 3/16/12
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There are a few mistakes, but for the most part it is pretty good, especially given the utter lack of good information at that time. 1. Plan A should not last longer than 3-4 weeks for a woman 2. Continuing in Plan A is recommended until the wayward ultimately show signs of complete rejection of accepting there have been improvements by the betrayed… and/or the betrayed's feelings turn to one of overt anger… and resentment! I don't agree with this one because most WS show signs of rejection on day 1. Most do not believe or care about the BS' changes. Nor is the BS usually able to meet the WS' needs anyway, because the lovebank is obviously closed. 3. In general… anything that would make the wayward unhappy can be deemed as a Love Buster!. One time Love Busters are bad enough… but repetitive occurrences are disastrous. This is obviously wrong because the MAIN FOCUS of Plan A, exposure, always makes the WS very unhappy. I have never known a WS who was happy about exposure initially. Another important note is the issue of sacrifice and being a "doormat." Dr Harley clarified this over on the weekend forum: Plan A should never involve sacrifice. In other words, you can be as encouraging as possible about your willingness to meet his emotional needs without actually doing it, and still be in Plan A. And you can defend yourself from your husband's abuse (calling the police or calling his lover's husband) and still be in Plan A. The point of plan A is that you are making an effort to do your part to make your marriage successful, but from my perspective, it should never involve personal sacrifice.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Losttime, in years past, the path to busting up an affair was very fuzzy and vague. Surviving an Affair and HNHN were silent on the issue of exposure. Yet, occasionally board members would counsel with the Harleys [Steve or Jennifer] or go to the weekend seminars [with Dr Harley]. They would come back with marching orders to expose the affair sometimes. And it would make an amazing difference.
Yet there was great debate on this issue on the board because there were no articles or books about it. Many old timers felt like the key to success was appeasement, but noticably, most of those advocates had really bad marriages. [not NSR, but others]
So along comes the radio show in 2006 and Dr Harley is telling callers to "hang up and expose the affair right now!! Everyone should know!"
Some folks here sent him an email, which sparked the "Exposure" article and its addition to HNHN. This brought clarity to what Plan A really means. Dr Harley even states in his exposure article that it is the best way to recover a marriage.
In view of that, the most correct and effective guide for Plan A after reading all of Dr Harley's materials, attending the weekend seminar and listening to EVERY radio ever made, is Pepperband's Carrot and Stick.. That is the spirit of Plan A as Dr Harley intended and is the most effective guide we have.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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This is the one that best reflects Dr Harley's views and is the most effective in my view: The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
The carrot of Plan A
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
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Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks Mel. I do realize that exposure is an invaluable tool for breaking the affair and was developed after the book SAA was written.
As far as plan b timing, I think that is dependant on the individual (BS) and how much they can take without constant LB's and damage to their mental health.
Its also my understaning that plan B will not get your spouse back and is not designed to. It is strickly for the BS to get relief and actually lessens the chance of R.
But I know very little and am still trying to learn.
Me = BH
DDay Dec. 2010
D filed Oct 2011 (by me)
D final 3/16/12
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Thanks Mel. I do realize that exposure is an invaluable tool for breaking the affair and was developed after the book SAA was written. Dr Harley said he has pretty much always recommended exposure but was not absolutely convinced of its effectiveness at first. When he became convinced of its effectiveness, he took a more public stand on it and now calls it the most effective way to bust up an affair. As far as plan b timing, I think that is dependant on the individual (BS) and how much they can take without constant LB's and damage to their mental health. That applies to MEN. For women it is 3-4 weeks unless they are counseling with Dr Harley and even then he is pretty strict about it not lasting longer than 4 weeks. ts also my understaning that plan B will not get your spouse back and is not designed to. It is strickly for the BS to get relief and actually lessens the chance of R. It does not LESSEN the chance of reconciliation, it increases it because if the BS stays in Plan A too long, the chances of reconciliation goes down because of the mental deterioration of the spouse. If the BS stays in Plan the appropriate amount of time and gets out before that happens, he/she leaves when there is still love for the WS. THAT affords the best chance possible for reconciliation.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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3-4 weeks for woman is what I keep reading, but I don't want to make the generalization that all women are the same in how much they can take in plan A.
Didn't Dr H mention on his radio show a couple of weeks ago that neither Jon nor Sue were in love after her affair ended? Even tho Jon went into plan B. But that his plan for Recovery restored their love.
If the BSs love bank 'freezes' in plan B, then how can he/she be ready for D at the end of plan B? I believe that the LB$ will still drop in plan B, but not nearly as fast as it does in plan A. Is that correct in your opinion?
I believe that a BS HAS to loose a certain amount of love for their WS to do what they need to do.
Did Dr. H rewrite SAA?
Me = BH
DDay Dec. 2010
D filed Oct 2011 (by me)
D final 3/16/12
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If the BSs love bank 'freezes' in plan B, then how can he/she be ready for D at the end of plan B? I believe that the LB$ will still drop in plan B, but not nearly as fast as it does in plan A. Is that correct in your opinion? It doesn't 'freeze', it just does not have withdrawals. Since there are few if any deposits (emotional needs being met), it allows the betrayed to get used to a separate life. One without the wayward. One that is fully developed and not dependant on whether the wayward's affair ends and they seek reconciliation or not. They are ready for D at that point because they (the betrayed) has a sense of zero regret of their part in trying to save the marriage and has zero desperate need to cling to the wayward. They still feel love. They are dissappointed at that juncture but they can bravely and and with inner strength and an assemblance of joy move onward to a good life.
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3-4 weeks for woman is what I keep reading, but I don't want to make the generalization that all women are the same in how much they can take in plan A. This is what Dr Harley says. 3-4 weeks. Most women are the same when it comes to Plan A. If the BSs love bank 'freezes' in plan B, then how can he/she be ready for D at the end of plan B? I believe that the LB$ will still drop in plan B, but not nearly as fast as it does in plan A. Is that correct in your opinion? No, it doesn't freeze it. It just stops it from going deep into the red. The BS has a sense of detachment which makes it much easier to move into divorce.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MelodyLane:
The primary reason for abandoning plan A for plan B is protection. The stress experienced in plan A (trying to care for someone too long who is hurting you more deeply than you ever have, or ever will, experience) can leave you physically and emotionally damaged. So the question each person must ask themselves is, "how tough am I?"
My experience is that men are tougher mentally and physically than women. By that, I mean that women seem to start falling apart emotionally and physically after just a few months, or even a few weeks, of plan A. Men, on the other hand, seem to be able to keep it up for years before experiencing health problems.
If I don't know a person too well, I tend to lean to the safe side by recommending 3-4 weeks of plan A for women, and 6 months for men. But if a woman is no worse for wear after a few weeks, or a man is feeling okay after 6 months, there's no reason to end plan A at that point. As you can see, it's inexact, and depends on how the person is doing. A good support system (like the support people often receive on the Forum) can often keep a person in plan A much longer.
Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Me = BH
DDay Dec. 2010
D filed Oct 2011 (by me)
D final 3/16/12
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LostNtime,
How are things? Did you get the house sold?
Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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TJ/
Keep in mind that "Surviving an Affair" has been revised and reprinted since this original thread back in 1999. The copy I have says "Ninth printing, September 2006" and the parts that were quoted by NSR back then read differently in the version I have now. They are similar but not word for word.
I think it's important that people realize that over the years Dr. Harley has expounded and clarified even more since the original writing of this book and has made an effort to keep it updated through reprintings and articles.
There used to be a group around here that would nitpick Dr. H's words and compare them to his writings to try and catch inconsistencies (reminded me of the Pharisees). I am so thankful that that kind of nonsense just doesn't fly here anymore.
/TJ
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Any advice for executing Plan A while your spouse is actively having an affair? I catch them together ever few days and snap a few pictures. The purpose is to force her out of the house. The problem is that when I catch them together a Angry Outburst usually ensues. The obvious thing to do is to keep my cool, but that is really hard to do sometimes.
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Any advice for executing Plan A while your spouse is actively having an affair? I catch them together ever few days and snap a few pictures. The purpose is to force her out of the house. The problem is that when I catch them together a Angry Outburst usually ensues. The obvious thing to do is to keep my cool, but that is really hard to do sometimes. But you always Plan A while your spouse is actively having an affair, PS. That's when Plan A is used - didn't you know that? Everyone on this site right now, who is in Plan A, is in that Plan because there is an active affair. Read what they are doing. Read what advice they are getting.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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SugarCane,
You are right.... I know what Plan A is.... My problem is I'm in a forced Plan A because of young kids..... Im really past my tolerance limit. Ideally i would have gone to Plan B after about 8 weeks. During the first 8 weeks I was doing pretty well. Do you know of any post that gives techniques for dealing with situations like this. I suppose best thing to do is stop looking for it since my spouse has agreed to move out in a month or two.
Thanks
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Phoenix, one thing that Dr. Harley says helps a man (not a woman!) Plan A longer is a support group, like this forum.
Another thing that can help is antidepressant medication, which can help you remain rational and override your emotional responses to execute a strategic plan to recover your marriage. You sound like you could really benefit from this. You need to figure out some way to do this regardless of whether you use antidepressants to help or not.
have you considered contacting Dr. Harley directly on his radio show?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Phoenix, one thing that Dr. Harley says helps a man (not a woman!) Plan A longer is a support group, like this forum.
Another thing that can help is antidepressant medication, which can help you remain rational and override your emotional responses to execute a strategic plan to recover your marriage. You sound like you could really benefit from this. You need to figure out some way to do this regardless of whether you use antidepressants to help or not.
have you considered contacting Dr. Harley directly on his radio show? The mental health industry is getting rich off me. I have a Child psych, a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a MC  . I started taking viibryd about two weeks ago. Latest Ssri on the market. Not much change yet but it takes a few weeks. I've had two sessions with Steve and my wife has had one. He is recommending separation but I didn't ask him for any pointers between now and seperation time. Writing Dr. Harley is a good idea. Thanks
Last edited by PhoenixStar; 12/15/11 11:08 PM.
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I can't imagine doing an extended Plan A, and I am not familiar with your sitch. But if you are looking for inspiration for an extended Plan A (albeit a woman's Plan A), one that sticks out for me is Neak's. But she had to eventually move into a brief Plan B. Actually, from memory, Mimi also did a good Plan A with a lot of carrot and stick.
I am not familiar with male Plan A's sorry. GJM has been doing a great effort but his has been short from memory. Also check out Bob Pure, pretty sure he A'd for a fair while.
If Dr Harley is recommending separation, are you getting your ducks in a row for Plan B?
Last edited by Caracal; 12/16/11 04:33 AM. Reason: more info
Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.
WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.
Plan B has set me free.
"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
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