If you really must talk to WH through IM about the car, just state what you want him to do.

Maybe it can be something like, "Dear WAYTURD, Your wife would like to know what your intentions are with the car. If you are going to sell it, she would like 1/2 of the proceeds deposited into XXXX account. If you intend to keep it, please deposit $XXX into XXX account by (date). Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. IM"

Something like that should suffice.

How's the weather down under? It's chilly here, but we had a glorious weekend last weekend, so no complaining. It's like 10 degrees though.

Thanks Scotty, that is perfect. Now I just need to figure out how much money I can get away with asking to fund a girly holiday.

Why do you seem so reluctant for IM to contact? Just curious, so far in two months of Plan B IM has only had to contact once about banking issue. Other then that, there has been no need. I realise that the less contact between IM and WH the better it is, the darker it is. But any other reason?

The weather here is hitting the low 20's each day, sunshine and I am eating a late breakfast outside soaking it in.

And I get my toes painted tomorrow... Oh dear, my poor poor bank balance.

Nope, just for the reason you stated. I just don't want it to be too much back and forth. It is better for you that way.

I would figure out what the car is worth, and then ask for half of what the value is after everything is paid off(or is it paid off?).

(((BANK BALANCE))) you poor thing Tehehe

I have a confession and want to clear my conscience.

I have relapsed in Plan B, and I have lied on my thread.

First the lie. I told you all that I had deleted WH's email sent in reply to my Plan B letter. I didn't.

I want to apologise for the lie. I am sorry for being dishonest to my support network. Why the lie... maybe not wanting to admit that I was too weak to cut the connection with WH. Why keep the email? Probably the same reason. Clinging to the memory of a husand and marriage that no longer exist in reality. And I knew you would all disagree with this action, so it was a selfish lie as well. Lying is not something I usually do, and I am not comfortable with it, especially when I know you are all giving your time so generously. I want to own up in a sense, take responsibility and hope my mistakes might help others do Plan B better.

So I went against all of the MB advice, my IC's advice, and my IM's advice. IC told me the email was toxic, and that I should get rid of it. IM said similar, and suggested if I couldn't delete it to forward it to her and she would only pass on the details if WH had launched into a confession (which I strangely hoped for). Pigheaded me kept it anyway.

I read it this week. Really, I always knew it was only a matter of time. I am embarrassed as I can see that there are aspects of a junkie looking longingly at the next fix, keeping it in my pocket and savouring it, just by knowing it is there. What made me finally open it? Sabotage my Plan B? Set back my recovery? Hmmm. Weak again I guess. I became more and more curious about WH's final words in a way. Had he confessed? Given me the answers to the questions I have? Apologised? Of course not. These were just toxic thoughts that only slow my recovery.

And for anyone thinking that contact with a WS will help ease the pain, I can now assure you that it won't. What it will do is return you to aspects of D Day, like the loss of appetite, not being able to sleep well even with sleeping tablets, etc. We all know what that is like.

Reading his words did prove to me I have come a long way (even despite my relapse). I have mixed emotions about what he wrote. But the biggest chord it struck in me is that my husband really is dead, replaced by WH. I don't like or respect this WH. I hope the setback to my recovery will be brief. Actually, I feel I am able to recover much quicker then previously. I am processing what I read, trying to filter out the elements of truth that might be hidden amongst the fog, but only the parts that are relevant to me becoming a better person for recovery or future relationships. I am not obsessing over what was written like I would have done at the time of entering Plan B. I will try to learn what I can and file it away, and work on making necessary changes in me.

Now what I have learned from my relapse... BS really need to remove ALL temptations, ALL triggers. Because in some ways these temptations and triggers meet some of a BS's EN's, however small. They keep US addicted to the relationship that once was, keep us clinging to the past, of how our WS's and marriages USED to be. This contact just hurts us... why be a masochist? That is certainly not going to help us become the best we can be. Also important to note, contact, however small or indirect, can damage a BS's lovebank. I think this email contact has made a considerable withdrawl from mine. If it had been the withdrawal that drained my lovebank entirely, I would regret that should WH want to recover our marriage.

So stay dark... don't manipulate Plan B as I have done. Contact is contact, regardless of whether it is direct or indirect, because it slows us from moving forward. The wayward's really aren't worth it. We BS can be pretty creative with our justifications for contact with a wayward. Whatever it is you tempt yourself with wanting, a confession like I did, guilt, shame, affair details, whatever, are worth nothing to a BS without a WS's remorse, commitment to recovery and EP's.

It is strange how anxious I feel about having let you all down, people I have never met. I am feeling a bit vulnerable owning up to this, but I also trust that some fellow MB'ers will help me grow and learn from this. My fellow MB'ers will hold me accountable. A verbal butt-kicking may be the only way, tough love hahahaha. Thank-you.

Drop and give me 20, soldier!

And....

Oh KR, you made me literally LOL, and that doesn't happen often.

Caracal. You already know that it didn't help you, so I won't be too harsh on you. I also understand what it is like to feel like you have let strangers on a forum down, and feel so completely guilty over it. Have you read my thread? I also feel like it helps keep me accountable having someone I don't want to let down.

Now, my question is this, when did you do it? How long ago? Was it before that post about what to do with his things?

Yes SIR! And... thanks.

Scotland, I feel you are coming in to help me clear up the mess I have made, like a naughty kid But I am relieved you are still showing support. Thank you.

I have dipped in and out of it since deciding to enter Plan B, and have recently started to read it from the start to finish... but it is looong Scotty, so only up to page 85 at the moment. You have only been in Plan B for a few weeks by that stage. And you certainly are a master so I will continue reading and learning. Clearly I need to!

Friday (it is now Sunday here). It was before the post about his items. I can see that there might be a connection about the photos and things, that I might have been triggered. The car I had already decided to try and finalise long ago. Had already told IM to just wait until after all of the difficult dates (my b'day, then wedding anniversary and yesterday 10 year anniversary since death of in-laws) cause I didn't want to have extra to deal with. And I have survived them, better then I thought. Though I guess I have also relapsed... maybe not as good as I thought!

Didn't want you to miss out on any punishment you wanted.

Now listen up! What color are your toenails?!

Now I really don't care about your toenails,(I think women dress for other women accually), but I do care if you are activlely taking care of you, and not wallowing in the past.

Let him eat your dust as you continue on with your life. A Wayward is a toxic person and you don't need to remind yourself about who he was, he is gone now.

Ha CP, you have just knocked some sense into me... at least I hope it was into me rather then knocked senseless!

You are right. Reading that email was to experience 100% exposure to WH as he truly is now. It ain't pretty. Why subject myself to that again... nope, no way. It only reinforces to me the need to be dark. I'll learn from the mistake. Thanks.

And Scotland is asking questions designed to have me thinking about whether I am reacting or acting. Another good thing.

Phew, where would I be without this forum?

Caracal, exactly. I was trying to point out to you that you broke contact by reading that email and then your brain wanted to get some more contact, so you decided to deal with the mementos and furniture. That's why, after you made your confession, I asked about when you had read the email, to show you(and anyone reading along) that breaking Plan B really does snowball, and it is NOT worth it.

If you think my story is long, you should read Queenie's. I have been reading it along the way. I also read Mimi's thread. They really helped me.

And don't think that I am a master at Plan B. I have made my mistakes. That's how I came to realize that whenever I broke Plan B, even by looking out the window, that it would cause me to want to break it more and in bigger ways. I got some crazy ideas a few times, but knowing that I would have to come on here and confess it to this forum kept me on the straight and narrow. So I know how you feel.

Isn't it nice to know that you are quite normal?

Caracal,


I am so glad you have Scotty writing to you. She is so wise.

Hugs to you. And for the reasons above, don't do it again. You are going to be so wonderful in the future. I just know it.

AM

You poor thing! You have been trying to heal this whole time with that toxic email in your back pocket. That isnt going to work, silly.


NOW are you ready to feel a bit better?



I have skated so close to doing this myself and spying on softlad that I am not going to give you a hard time. The punishment for it falls entirely upon you, so there is no need!

I have not yet had to resist a message from softlad and your reaction to reading an email tells me thoroughly that it wont be worth it. So I want to thank you for being honest and helping me prepare for that. It isnt easy to be honest about something you are ashamed of.





I agree with you about removing temptations. I knew that driving a strange work-car would make me tempted to spy on OWs house, so I 'thought' I had removed that temptation. The one day I forgot about that and found myself in one, I came within a whisker of breaking Plan B.

It was not my duty of care to myself or commitment to Plan B or saving my marriage that stopped me. No, it was the realisation that I would have to come on here and say so that stopped me.

Let us hold you accountable. It will help you as it helped me.

Yep, just like the recovering alcoholic that chooses to have "just one drink". I totally get this now. Just had to learn the hard way. No more lessons needed for me on this.

I have promised myself, and all of you, that from here on in I will tell the truth, warts and all. I am accountable for my choices. Although I am glad that this time I have helped you (and hopefully others) learn from and avoid my mistake, I will now try to help by setting the example.

If I relapse again now, someone can re-post this and make me feel really ashamed. No thanks. Boy, how do the waywards live with themselves?

I will!

Seriously though, it has made me double check the locks on my Plan B that are possible temptations. There are still pitfalls for me to fall into and you being honest about yours has made me look at them more seriously.

I have felt that pull to cheat on my own recovery. It is very possible that we will all fall. And we will only graze our own knees.

I have decided to post WH's email in response to my Plan B letter. I know I have learned a lot reading other BS's contacts with waywards and hope this might help some others. I hope it might reinforce to anyone considering caving in to temptation as I did that the wayward really does not have anything to offer a BS unless it is commitment to recovery, NC for life, and EP's in place. It does not paint me in an attractive light, nor our marriage. I feel pretty exposed but glad that I can also see WH for what he is now; no way would I have been able to read this two months ago and have any objectivity. MB has educated me, made me stronger. Oh, and WH is a one-fingered typist so you will have to bear with the lack of punctuation, etc if you want to read some wayward thoughts.

dear caracal,
well that has been the hardest and most upsetting reading lve ever read and has an effect on me that l cant even begin to explain.when we were first married we both were young and l think now looking back at it we didnt talk enough about issues uppsetting each other such as the effect of my long hours working at robs and not spending more time together.l also have spent time looking back on what l was wanting back on our early years of married life and really was buying a house and having kids which l no you were not keen on at all and seen to be less keen on as years went on,maybe something you may not have been happy with in our relationship? so many things were said between us over the years and never really followed up on,resecpting each others feelings/needs and giving each other the understanding they needed.l now no what a average husband lve been over the years in understanding your needs and talking to you with the resecpt you should have treated with.we are both strong willed and would not back down at times and think about the other ones point of view,not a good thing.the thing lve reliased now is that all l wanted was some effection+hugs each day and not the cold shoulder so to speak,also support when working long hours to acheive goals that we once had together,lam a simple person who doesnt need fancy [censored] just a warm place to be when coming home.l felt like l was stuck in london at times when you went back to see family,trying to earn money and keeping our house open,but l so wanted to see my family but had to bite my toung so that l didnt upset you as you were not dealing with it well anyway.when we come back from our last trip l felt so alone as l come home at night and not getting your support in these tough times,as you no l didnt want to work at alexs again and when you were unhappy again l couldnt deal with that again.so thats why l said you should go home,but wanted you to stay and be with me but you didnt reliase my hurt,and when you left it was like another nail in my coffin,and once again l was left in london.all this may not make sense to you but lam upset and not good at putting my feeling on a computer,over the years we have shared so many good times together but you gave me the cold shoulder for so long and pushed me away with out telling me why which broke my heart.you are a fantastic lady and have made me who lam today{good parts}and l never wanted to hurt you like l have done,and will never forgive myself for that.l totally understand the no contact thing as l caused to much hurt.lam [censored] at this and hate all of this..
sorry, Mr Caracal . always wanted to be part of your life

I am writing this as a sort of therapy, to learn and grow. Whether for recovery, or more likely a future relationship. The things I pick out is that I did not meet WH's EN's. I consider his top EN's are admiration, affection... and I am not too sure about the third, it is between DS, attractiveness, SF or RC? It is a hard one to judge as some of the babble is outright delusional, a total re-write of history. Still, there are grains of truth in there.

I can see my flaws in not POJAing enough. Neither of us did.

Aside from the last two months before I returned to Aus (which was pretty stressful all around), we had good UA. Actually, before I returned to Aus there was definitely a significant drop in UA.

It is strange, but with hindsight I think I wasn't bad at meeting admiration, affection and DS. Not perfect by any means, but I know I was not totally missing the mark. I can be very hard on myself and reading my thread at the start, I can see I am always someone who takes too much blame on. My mother also always tells me this. So I am unsure how much truth is in this letter. I know my Plan A was really good at meeting admiration and affection... doing this came naturally to me, I am used to doing it. And WH struggled to maintain the "brick wall" (his words even) in Plan A, acknowledging that I was "tearing it down, brick by brick".

I actually wonder if much of the trouble was WH's failure with HO... his failure to communicate with me his real needs.

I can see that this letter does not answer my questions about the affair or our marriage. I will gather what I can from it, process it, and file it away.

I want to come come out of this making the changes needed for ME. I had a great thought today. WH may realise some of his flaws, but he is not trying to change them (once the novelty of the OW wears off). I am committed to using MB principles in a future relationship. I never want to lose the romantic love again, to have a husband whose boundaries are weak. And I am proud that I am not someone who picks up and has an affair as a way to solve any marital problems. I am committed.

Some good news too... yesterday I was talking with my parents over dinner, with lots of laugther. My dad actually got all teary and said that it is sooo good to hear me laughing so naturally again. They both said it has been a looong time. Hooray! AND I feel like a light switch has gone on in my head. I feel STRONGER. I hope this is not because I have had a fix... I will wait and see. My thoughts have definitely changed for the better. Maybe getting rid of this toxic email from my pocket has lifted a weight from my shoulders. A weight that was of my own making, I could have deleted it at the start. Silly me.

You're gonna file that email under "G" right? (If you don't get this, ask me.)

And I got a real ROFL out of THIS.
Oh yea, WH had a real problem with his HO. I had to look at it twice. I now know why we short form it O&H usually. HAHAHAHAHAHA

I know why you posted that email on here(or at least why you said that you did), but I wouldn't have wasted the space on your thread. It's not worth the time it took you to post it. BLECH.

I am glad to hear that you are laughing again. It will help people see that MB and Plan b is the right choice for you. Carry on.

I'm asking?

Actually, lets hope all WH's failure with O&H leads them to have troubles with their HO!

Thanks for the words of affirmation Scotty. No matter how objective I tried to be when I read the email, subjective thoughts crept in. I can't help but worry "was it all my fault? I must have made him miserable". But then I can see the blameshifting, the absolute lack of taking responsibility (I broke HIS heart ), his not mentioning once that HE HAD AN AFFAIR. I think anyone reading my thread from the get go would also know that I really want to have kids. WH has rewritten this. And he conveniently forgets that I worked long hours with commuting, and that he returned to Australia for a family visit without me. I am not defending myself here, because actually I don't think I need to. What I want is for others who are blaming the affair on themselves to see that a wayward will do anything to not accept responsibility for the pain they have caused and the wrong that on some level they know they are doing (otherwise why blameshift?). A perfrect example of just how foggy WH is... he talks about so desperately wanting to be with family, yet he has left his family behind to go to another country to be with skank!
Most of that letter seems to me to be all about a

I got my toes painted yesterday. And picked up some uni brochures to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. And I am still laughing!