I think that initially after D Day many BS feel and think like a victim. I know I did. I felt victimised by WH's choices and actions. The betrayal of my trust in the one person I trusted with my life. Total devestation. My husband and I were a victim of crime years ago and I can now see that I was acting the victim in many ways after discovering the affair. Actually, more so.

And if I acted the victim... my WH acted the perpetrator. Not just in his having an affair, and the cruelty of that choice and action. But in certain things he said and did.

I have thought a lot about the fracture that must start to happen in the wayward's personality and thought processes to allow them to continue hurting someone who loves them, who they have loved over many years and likely still do.

Shortly after D Day WH rang me and said he never me to hurt me.

I said if this is true, stop having an affair.

He went quiet.

I then asked for OW's name, that as his wife I had a right to know her name.

He refused, he "didn't see the point".

I fell silent.

Then he told me the name of an acquaintance of ours (lets call her Tanya), who he knew I had initially suspected.

I was shocked, and again quiet. I then said I thought it was someone else, and asked if it was really Tanya.

He laughed. Actually LAUGHED. Said it wasn't Tanya.

WH WAS TAUNTING ME ABOUT WHO THE OW WAS, ABOUT HOW I DID NOT KNOW!!!

I know other BS's will have examples of cruelty of the wayward. Some much worse than this one. I have other examples as well, because the cruelty spreads. They can't stop.

Think of what becoming wayward involves.

The lying to BS, family, friends and themselves. The constant justifying that their behaviour is okay.

The shifting of the morals and beliefs they once held.

And imagine witnessing the pain they have caused. When they look into the eyes of the betrayed, or hear the pain in their voice, think how awful that must feel.

And how do they cope? They deny. They put a lot of effort in refusing to see or acknowledge the betrayed's pain. They deny the truth, and the feelings of shame and guilt that occasionally theatens to break through the fog. They wayward must maintain the fog at all costs, because without it, they have to see who they have become. And no no no, that won't do. So they stamp on any of those threatening feelings with ever more denial. And with denial, they allow themselves to become even crueler.

I am surviving an affair. I will not remain a victim. But until a wayward comes out of the fog and atones for the harm caused, they remain a perpetrator.

Hmmm, some dark thoughts of mine. Just wanted to share.

Was I chosen and targeted to be a victim?

No doubt. Looking back OW always had it in for me and prob relished getting a knife in my back. WH needed a scapegoat for his guilt.

Am I one? While being betrayed, yes. But now?

Like Beyonce, I'M A SURVIVOR.

I have had a hard time letting go of some of the cruel things my now XH did to me during the divorce. Most had to do with division of property....I felt he took EVERYTHING he could get and that if he was sorry at all for what he did he would have been more generous than the judge made him be.

I finally talked to my dh about it yesterday....I feel better now.

They are cruel....I think the basic character flaw of selishness is behind it all.

So Caracal.....you DO know my Foggy Wife!!

And I do not believe your thoughts are dark.....I'd call them insightful, accurate and show true emotion....which is more than either of us can say of our Spouses at the present time.

THANK YOU for sharing.

I agree......Mine is doing that too!!

You're right SW, selfishness is a big part. Selfishness and being egocentric. Because to think of others, means facing the effect of their actions on others. Better to act like a 2-year-old, ME ME ME!

My H never used to be selfish, and I have read other posters that can't believe the degeneration of a spouse once they become wayward. So in some sense, maybe the wayward is also being cruel to themselves. Losing what was once so good about them, losing what made them who they were and losing the reasons we loved them.

Thank you for sharing. I think you all must be talking about the man I am married too. Just when that fog starts to go, BAM another cold front comes in.

Best line I heard from my husband "She really liked you as a friend"
Yeah like that is going to make me feel a whole lot better, not only you but my friend betrayed and made a mockery of me.

Funny enough Indie, I have listened quite a bit to Diana Ross' I WILL SURVIVE.

We all will .

I could have sworn that was Gloria Gaynor! Did Diana Ross do a version?

It was G.G. Though, I have a strong preference for the cover by Cake.

Oops, just went and checked my father's CD, and you're right DR did do a cover, but it was not good IMO.

The Cake version rocks

They also have a turkey version for Thanksgiving.

The original "music video" of GG doing it is priceless.

Beyonce did an "I am a Survivor" song for one of the Charlie Angel movies. I think as Destiny's Child not Beyonce.

This is interesting, about the state of mind of the WS

But I see your taking it further.

I too felt like a victim, but WS's easily flip that notion on us, projecting themselves as the victim. Making us feel as we are the perpetrator, the one who is exposing, not allowing our WS to be happy.

It's self justification at any cost and to avoid any pain at all costs. We as BS's are a reminder to them of the damage that is being inflicted so almost instinctually they try to force us away. Not because they don't love us, but because we are causing them pain and their need for self preservation supersedes anything.

The cruelty, the gas lighting, the fog, the limbo, is all a state of mind. The process of emotional fusion, the loss of self. If it wasn't a state of mind, plan A would ultimately kill most A, but sadly it doesn't in most cases.

Have you ever wondered why some WS appear so physically and emotionally drained, crying and depressed, but still carry out their A as if they are happy?

It's the unconscious being ahead of the conscious. They will do whatever they have to, to avoid confronting themselves, their body, their tears and depression are all signs of that, but they have yet to accept it.

For most D-day, and for some a significant time after, is a loss of self, we scramble, we justify, we even deny like our WS's, we simply cannot fathom that this is truly happening to us. We have lost balance in our life. But we let ourselves fall apart, because we really have no choice in the matter.

That falling apart is a crucial step because actually we are falling inward and together allowing us to regain balance between self and emotional intimacy.

Often what you see w/ a WS is that as soon as they feel like they are falling apart they do everything they can to stop that process because they feel as if they will lose themselves. Exposure brings that out, it forces them to confront. But often what do we see here after exposure? Anger, rage, I mean you name it. A host of defense mechanisms to prevent them from confronting and falling inward. But it's that paradox that really could save them. It seems counterintuitive to them.

I think you would be very hard pressed to find a BS who hasn't learned a great deal about themselves and about marriage throughout this terribly painful process.

And it's that painful process that WS avoid. It's why some never leave that state of mind. It truly is a sickness. Whether it's passive dependency, those who look to others for their happiness, or emotional fusion, the A to them, the falling in love is a temporary escape, a "sudden collapse of one's ego boundaries."

Affairs are self destructive by nature and they don't last for a host of reasons, but mainly most people simply cannot carry on this type of fused relationship, it would literally destroy them if they tried. And they do try.

The need to feel closer and closer to their A partner is actually causing them to move farther and farther away because they lose all identity in that cycle. There is no growth cycle like there is in healthy a relationship. When there is no growth, there is no separateness. Their need for validation and fusion ultimately kills the A because in that non growth cycle as they move closer and closer they literally consume one another until there is nothing left. That need, that addiction.........

When one A partner is happy the other A partner is happy and when one is sad the other is sad and this is when problems start to arise. They no longer feel safe, they have lost their ability to self validate. They rely completely on their A partner to make them secure. But they are so fused together emotionally to their A partner that they both lack the ability to validate anything anymore. All they can say is "we are happy or we are sad" They look at each other with a reflected sense of self.

Well you might be thinking that is validation, they are saying they are both happy or sad, but it's not the self validation that is needed to remain separate and the self soothing that comes from that type of validation. It simply doesn't exist between the two, b/c before this total fusion occurred they relied on one another to validate and sooth. And that ability disappeared when they became emotionally fused. They emotionally became one person, without the ability to self validate and sooth.

Some people can remain in this state indefinitely, but they will destroy everything around them, their family, their children's lives, their friendships.....everything.

But like I said most people can't keep up with that cycle. It's why A partners break up then get back together, multiple times in some cases. They reach such a gridlock in their fusion they have no choice but to separate. But they instantly return because when they separate they enter the growth cycle and their ability to self sooth and validate during that cycle is lost on them so they return to each other.

A lot of people are able to recognize this sub consciously that something is wrong, so the A just dies out, b/c the cycle is never ending. Typically one partner has had enough.

What does it look like if they never do leave that cycle?

A permanent state of limbo, this constant back and forth. One A partner pulling away, one trying to remain fused, then both of them getting closer b/c they start to become too separate, they get too close to entering that growth phase where self confrontation is..........a endless cycle of nothing but fusion and non growth in there affair.

"What does it look like if they never do leave that cycle?"

Go look at Finnigan's thread from yesterday . . .

yup surprise, surprise

I honestly do not know why people are so dumbfounded when the cycle just repeats itself over and over.

My WW's parents. Her stepdad and mother, their affairage has lasted 20 years, it would take me a year to write down how it has destroyed everything around them.

My wayward mother in law is so delusional you literally cannot carry a conversation on with her, she lacks the capacity to listen if it doesn't involve her.

You could tell her you are having a heart attack and she would respond with a story about how she got up in the morning and made herself breakfast.

ROFL

My dad is in an affairage. I had returned home to recover from the deep wounds of betrayal. She blew up on me after a couple of days, completely nuclear explosive blow up. Why?

I HAD NOT ASKED HER HOW HER DAY WAS!!!!!

I mean she was yelling, throwing things, completely nuts. But my dad was paying attention to somebody else then her and she couldn't stand it.

It's true, at July & Aug, I'm very angery & yelling a lot not like what I'm before, I feel my WH doesn't care me, I feel his heart is not here, even I didn't know his EA at that time, but I feel something wrong. he told me his EA at Sept, he promise come back, but now he said he need think again, I'm very confused.

my story "stay or leave?"

The amusing part is that it is funny, but not at the same time.

It's so typical.

You should of smacked her.

Honestly......I'm surprised there is not a reality tv show dedicated to just wayward spouses, I would never miss an episode.


Side note, don't take this personally w/ regards to your father as I don't know the specifics, but all POSOM's & POSOW's are straight up cowards.

It's probably why Wayward Step Dad gets along so well with WW's POSOM.

Wayward Step Dad has gas lighted my WW thru email and txt, my family and I, behind my back, never to me directly.

Have called him out each and every time, it got so bad that basically I said if it happened again, next time I saw him it wasn't going to be pretty, that I had no problem putting him in his place in front of everyone next time he was at our home for a get together.


Instantly shut his mouth.......never once had the guts to say anything to my face.


Remember that, they may piss and moan, but when you confront them and let them know the world doesn't revolve around them and you have no problem handling them......

They run like scared cats.