Yes, and the way to buffer is to follow Dr Harley's advice and designate an intermediary. Which she has already done. No contact is a condition of recovery that she is committed to. It is not "limited" contact, but NO contact. EVER. Parents don't ever need to speak to each other directly. There is nothing to be said that can't be communicated through an intermediary. People in Plan B do it every day. It is no big deal.

What is important is not whether you and I "agree or disagree" but whether Dr Harley agrees. And that is the point here.

And sure, there might be future events, like graduations, etc, but even those are rare and maintaining no contact is not difficult in a crowd.

The important thing is to help her find ways to achieve no contact instead of trying to conjure excuses for her to break it. Like Dr Harley told her, find a way to make it work. And that is what we are here for, isn't it?

And what is Dr Harley's stance on contact?

here

What to Do When You (or Your Spouse) Becomes Pregnant with a Lover's Child

Thanks, Mel. I actually have bookmarked those links since I first found MB.

JL, I really appreciate your feedback, because I do respect you--particularly the insight you offer into how to change one's attitude towards a spouse in a way that will nurture a better relationship. I learned a lot about how to treat my husband better. I had hoped that eventually it would change his attitude towards me.

As for the threat of divorce, I have had to seriously explain to him why that option is possible if he continues to refuse change. Yesterday he had an appointment to get on anti-anxiety meds and he skipped. So...no meds. That was a huge concern, since it's a step that he NEEDS in order to reform the abusive tendancies and he's refusing. How much time is enough before it's time to follow through on a threat?

As for BH never seeing OC again, I would never do that to him. I even signed a contract that guaranteed him visitation in the event of divorce, which OM signed as well. I already caused so much hurt with my A that I couldn't possibly hurt him again by withholding OC.

I have been open and honest about why NC is necessary while still trying to protect BH's feelings. BH still feels like I need to "deal with" any residual feelings for OM and stop being a "baby" about the no contact thing, but he really doesn't understand just how serious my feelings for OM were and why any contact whatsoever is damaging. I try to explain; he shuts down and says I'm selfish and it's not best for OC. I am willing to do NC by any and all means, even if it means missing an important event (thus putting my M first), but I NEED to see some effort from BH that he'll start working on his issues too. Thus far I have seen NONE. Not a one. He's had over a year to work on my list:

1. Get on anti-anxiety meds
2. Get professional counseling (preferably with Steve Harley, but anyone at this point would be a step)
3. Go to anger management classes

Those are my top 3, then we can work better on building love with that foundation set. But he takes my threats of leaving as a joke so he has no real motivation to take even one step. Eventually I will have to follow through, but I don't know how much time to give him.

The hardest part is that he can be so incredibly sweet one minute then have explosive anger at the drop of a pin. I fear the pin dropping, since it sets back progress so severely. The roller coaster of emotions is exhausting.

Just a quick update, if you're interested.

This weekend I told my BH I was seriously considering a divorce and leaving (with the OC) because I see no desire for change in his part. Well, that night we FINALLY were able to discuss exactly what I need from him to have any hope of a future. He finally saw the value of no contact and is willing to support me in keeping it. He agreed to talk to Dr. Harley and any other counselor who can help with his anger, agreed to doing the full MB program with me, agreed to get on meds if needed, and even read a chapter of Love Busters last night. He was a completely new man who actually wants to work the program! It was a prayer answered to finally get him on board.

It was a great conversation, and yesterday I saw him put some changes into action, and we're going to schedule a call to Dr. Harley as well and purchase the program. I am guardedly excited right now, but I feel like if we can implement these changes I can finally know in my heart that it was the right decision to stay with him (at the cost of OC's intact family, which is what Dr. Harley would usually recommend in my case).

Way to go, wanthealing. You did GOOD!

Dr Harley posted this this morning:

Thanks, Mel! I just read your excerpt to BH and he is in total agreement. He's going to spend extra time on that chapter. Finally BH has come around to see that Dr. Harley knows what he's talking about and truly is our marriage's only chance to repair all of the damage we have done to each other. With both of us now repentant for our own love busters and eager to change for the better, I am feeling incredible joy and hope--joy I've been praying for for almost a decade!

Watching a 1963 movie on TCM this morning Rory Calhoun said: A long journey begins with the first step. Good for you.

awesome!

How are things going?

To be honest, not good, Fled. BH continues to put OC above me when visitation gets inconvenient. I'm still insisting NC, but I never realized how hard it would be to raise an OC with a third party in this type of situation. And I'm finding people to be increasingly unreliable in supporting us so that I can keep NC. No one gets how necessary NC is.

BH thinks I should be able to co-exist with OM and just "get over it." He really doesn't understand how seeing OM could trigger old feelings to surface. I've tried to explain to him. For example, BH admits that seeing his old girlfriends could bring up old feelings. Well, what if that girlfriend was the mother of his child? Wouldn't that be even harder to "get over"? That's why NC is so necessary. I am trying so hard to fix myself, fix our M, create a loving, safe home for us, but we keep circling back to the same problems--all going back to maintaining NC. But I'm sticking to my guns, no matter how much it upsets BH. It's just hard. I'm tired of hard.

All I can do is pray for the strength for today and deal with tomorrow tomorrow, I guess. Thanks for asking though, Fled.

Why can't BH's parents be the im and handle exchanges?

I echo everybody that there are a lot of red flags with you BH's attitude towards no contact.

From a legal standpoint, OM is on the birth certificate so he is legally entitled to the rights and responsibilities that entails. There are facilities where exchanges can be set up where Mom drops the kid off in the front door, and Dad picks the kid up at the back door. There is no contact between either party - have you explored these options?

I will look into that. I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs an IM like this, though if a fee is involved, BH will not agree. We are already pinching pennies to get by after all the court costs fighting OM.

My in-laws are not emotionally able to handle helping right now. There is still a lot of hurt, and right now they want to make it difficult so that OM goes away. Well, he's not going away so I'm trying to figure out a way to make it work so that I can keep NC. Everyone seems to think I'm crazy and selfish making it difficult for BH. I appreciate the suggestions, though! I'll keep researching alternatives.

want are you staying at home with the little one or is she in day care?

if in day care can you set something up with them for pick up and drop offs?

maybe try and have the attorneys work out different hours

if you are home with her then that shoots that one in the can obviously

I'm a stay-at-home mom.

Whose idea was it to tell the OM you were pregnant with his child?

road

out of curiousity. what does that matter at this point?

While it's "water under the bridge," here's the progression of events:

Even before my A BH and I were on the brink of divorce (due to BH's abuse issues), then after my A and when I got pregnant OM wanted to marry me and have an intact family with OC, so he knew from the beginning that I was pregnant. It wasn't until after OC was born that BH decided he wanted to stay with me so we fought OM in court...but by then OM knew OC was his and wanted to know OC and was determined to be involved in OC's life. OM was willing to keep NC for my sake, but BH is the one who doesn't like it. It's burdensome to him. That's the problem, and that's what makes recovery very difficult for us.

Pops, how does your family function with your W having contact with OM? How do you ever heal that way? I don't think I could ever see OM without having feelings for him again.