Let's see. Please send her here so we can speak to her.


That is because she doesn't understand this is a waste of good time that won't protect her from you. You are wasting your time [and hers] flapping your lips when you could be working on affair proofing your marriage.

Therapy will not fix you. Establishing appropriate boundaries WILL.

Let her decide.

If you need to find yourself, look inside your shoes. It's simpler and cheaper than therapy

If however you want to affair proof your marriage - take actions (also simple and cheap, but which so far have been unconsidered by you throughout your marriage) such as no contact with old girlfriends for example. or loose boundaries with any woman.

It sounds simplistic. But so is stomping on the brake to stop the car going over the cliff. Sometimes action is called for.

It would let you off the hook to find a syndrome or childhood trauma in therapy that neatly 'explains' your infidelity but being an MBer is not about being let off the hook.

Its about facing the simple and ugly truth that you liked the admiration of strange women and risked your marriage for no more than a cheap thrill.

And also facing the simple truth that you can decide to stop risking your happiness for cheap thrills at any point you decide to STOP.

This may sound like sense to her, it may not. Theres only one way to find out isnt there?

You talking about needing to be fixed is a way for you to avoid taking full blame and responsibility for your actions. It allows you to blame it on a mental problem or something outside of your control. It is also an excuse you could use in the future - oops, I thought I was "fixed" but it turns out I wasn't.

Stop that. You are responsible for your actions and you screwed up. You can't change the past, but you can make better choices now and in the future.

Focus on actions you can take right now to affair-proof your marriage.

#1, 2004, a few chats / 1 time meeting with Adult Friendfinder contact. Didn't go anywhere.
#2, 2004, a few chats / 1 time meeting with Adult Friendfinder contact. Didn't go anywhere.
#3, 2004, patronized an escort from eros website.
#4, 2006, a few months EA with work person, met twice to "hang out", did not get physical. Communicated via work email.
#5, 2009, 6 mo, fb and then in person affair with former HS girlfriend. Verbal NC 9/2009 and wife's DDay was 10/2011. no additional NC yet since DDay.
#6, 2009, 2-3 mo EA via fb with former neighbor. no NC, wife's DDay was 9/2009
#7, 2011, 2 mo EA via fb with former HS friend . no NC yet, wife's DDay was 10/2011

+1 "experiment-which-shall-not-be-named"

How many of these people are you still in contact with? It looks like three.

As of now, none. I permanently deleted the fb accounts that I used to communicate with 5 and 7.

I have had no contact with 6 since the time frame involved.

I have not sent a formal NC letter to 5/6/7 and had no further communication with any of the others after the time frame involved.

That's not what Melody said. And that one-word change you threw in there certainly changed the tenor of her comment from neutral to negative.

Did you do that on purpose, or are you reading something into this that wasn't there? Please communicate this clearly to your BW. Don't change our wording.

Schlage, *sigh* I think this may be third time I am posting to you trying to get to the bottom of this. That is a sign that you are not being fully honest.

You were also supposed to list the NC date and dday for your BW on all of these. That is missing for 1-4.

For 1-4 also if there was ANY physical contact AT ALL (hugging, groping, a peck) please list exactly what it was.

Nos 1-3, so you chatted, met up one time and never spoke again? When you met, what did you do? Watch a movie? Sit in a car and talk? At the end of the date did you say, never contact me again?

I have learned the hard way that vague language like "didn't go anywhere" means you are leaving something out. Please cut and paste the above and fill in the information you are leaving out.

Also you left out the thing from 2008. I understand you don't want to go into all the details but you could still list with length of time and when was date of last contact with tha tperson

Sorry, that was unintentional. I thought she would take it as a negative either way it's worded. I didn't say anything about that comment to my wife. I just said this to her:


Sorry, when I say "didn't go anywhere" I meant that I did not speak or chat or contact them in any way ever again. I didn't think it necessary to send an NC letter to those people.

Let me try this again.

#1, 2004, a few chats / 1 time meeting with Adult Friendfinder contact. Met at a restaurant and talked in person for about 10-15 minutes. No physical contact except possibly an initial handshake and/or hug. I don't remember. Did not contact the person in any way after that. DDay was 9/2009.

#2, 2004, a few chats / 1 time meeting with Adult Friendfinder contact. Met at a downtown pub, played a game of pool and had a beer and talked while we played. No physical contact except possibly an initial handshake and/or hug. I don't remember. Did not contact the person in any way after that. No NC letter. DDay was today since I just remembered #2 while writing out the long post for you guys.

#3, 2004, patronized an escort from eros website. Had oral and regular sex with a condom. No contact after that date. No NC letter. DDAy was 10/2011.

#4, 2006, a few months EA with work person, met twice to "hang out", did not get physical. Possibly a hug goodbye when I moved away. Communicated via work email. Last contact of any kind was when I ran into her on base here because she was on a work thing here maybe 6 months after I left MD. The nature of that encounter was not a "rekindling" in any way - just a "what have you been up to how's life" thing. No NC letter. DDay was either 9/2009 or 10/2011. I don't remember which.

#5, 2009, 6 mo, fb and then in person affair with former HS girlfriend. Hotel sex during a series of 4 work trips. Verbal NC 9/2009 and wife's DDay was 10/2011. no additional NC yet since DDay.

#6, 2009, 2-3 mo EA via fb with former neighbor. no NC, wife's DDay was 9/2009

#7, 2011, 2 mo EA via fb with former HS friend. no NC yet, wife's DDay was 10/2011

So once you add in the 2008 incident, is this the complete list? Any additional ddays are going to make it that much harder to recover (as you can see) so it would be best to get it all on the table NOW and not hide anything else.

If this is the complete list, I would give it to your BW, answer any and all questions she may have for you regarding the list and then submit to a polygraph.

This recovery isn't going anywhere until you have a) fessed up to everything and b) your BW has some assurance that you are finally being radically honest.

The tester can tailor the questions to only be asking that you haven't intentionally left anything out. chickadee, whose H was a serial cheater, had this type of poly done.

Schlag:

You said:

"I met her in person on four short business trips to the east coast from April through August of 2009. I didn't feel like I loved her but she told me she loved me and I said it back to her because I didn't want to admit that I was using her to feel good. I still don't believe that I loved her but that question is one that gave me trouble on the polygraph. so I don't know. It's complicated and I'm trying to sort it out."



The reason you "had trouble" with this question on the lie detector is because polygraphs are designed to identify deception. Your behavior in this situation - telling the OW that you were "in love" with her was DECEPTION. The polygraph would pick this up; the polygrapher would need to go through his questions and make sure to section out the questions more carefully in order to be sure he was getting through to the underlying issue before he could get an accurate read.

You cannot ask a question about deception using a polygraph unless you know there was deception involved. My guess is that is what happened.


SB

I'm here. I'm Amy, the wife.

What Schlag96 is leaving out is he gave me his passwords and access to his phone back after the emotional affair that I caught in Sept. 2009 to make me feel "safe" and he just had fake e-mails and fake facebook pages to facilitate the affairs. He also had a pay as you go phone that I didn't know about so he wouldn't get caught on his real phone. Lies upon lies upon lies. So, giving me his passwords and phone access and all of that doesn't make me feel safe AT ALL.

�We judge others by their behavior. We judge ourselves by our intentions.�

Welcome to MB, Amy. It is good that you have come here.

You need to start your own thread and stay off your husband's. Posting to his thread will lead to quarrels and disruption. You each need your own thread on which to get help.

Hi Ama.
Welcome to MARRIAGE BUILDERS !!!

There's that sense Mel was talking about. Welcome, Amalynn. I'm sure you're going to be advised to start your own thread, so I'll go ahead and say it.

NOBODY here would blame you one bit for walking away from this mess. However, if you want to try to repair this, there are people here to help you. Probably better done on your own thread.

Amalynn, thanks for signing up so we can speak to you. I fully understand that giving you the passwords does nothing. This is why he needs to set up a lifestyle that makes it virtually impossible for him to cheat. When I asked him what would prevent him from having another affair, he gave me nothing except a load of crap and psychobabble that made me very concerned for you.

What it will take is for you to have access to EVERY computer he is on, [even if he has to get another job] every cell phone he uses, and to never spend the night apart again. Even that will not be enough but I am not going to say it here because we have spy techniques we will only share with you.

In short, he has to make a DRAMATIC 180 radical change to transform his life in a way that it would be impossible for him to cheat again. That is what it will take.

His going to therapy is a complete and total waste of time. It is a distraction from the main issue, which is changing his personal behavior. If he is off flapping his lips at a therapist's office, then he is not focused on making the necessary changes to affair proof your marriage.

Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist and the founder of Marriage Builders and here is what he says about such therapy:



here

here

here

NOTHING your husband has told us makes me believe you are safe with him. That can change, but as long as focuses on nonsense like "finding himself" and other foolishness, he is not focused on ways to change his behavior in a way that would effect an affair proof marriage. He is not safe until that happens.