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I just read Trueheart's Letter....what do we do when they DON'T see themselves with us the rest of their lives? When they are angry and tell us they can't wait to be with someone who isn't a sick lying [censored]? ...what can I do besides live to serve her, be there for her, send NC letters, and do as much EPs as I can?
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Put in the time .... then ask what do we do when they DON'T see themselves with us the rest of their lives? You have not yet put in the TIME .... and you are not getting any guarantee. That's what is bothering you.
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...what do we do when they DON'T see themselves with us the rest of their lives? You accept that as a consequence of your actions, sir.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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I'm working on EP's for my work. I have gone to my supervisor and the main boss above that this morning and had a meeting about finding a way to have full tracking / logging / accountability for Amy in some way. They are going to make it a priority to figure out if it's possible and how to do it. If I can't solve the work computer issue then more drastic measures will be necessary.
Last night Amy created an administrator password on our home desktop computer until such time as she can install whatever monitoring you guys tell her to. So if I want to get on the computer I have to have her log in, and once she goes to bed it is logged off so I can't get on. This seems somewhat passive to me unless I missed something else regarding EPs. Allowing your BW to monitor your computer interactions is passive and puts the responibility on her. You have proven yourself to be very dangerous on the computer and around women. As a BW, I would not feel reassured with what you have offered up in the way of EPs thus far. If you look at HPB/tst's list, you will see a stellar example of an active form of implementing EPs. Yours actually need to be stronger than his since you have had so many affairs online, ie, if you were my WH I would not want you using the internet at all. What about your cell phone? Do you have internet/texting capability on that? If so you should remove it. You never responded to my post regarding the poly. Are you going to submit to that test regarding the fact that you are not intentionally hiding any other affairs?
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This seems somewhat passive to me unless I missed something else regarding EPs. Allowing your BW to monitor your computer interactions is passive and puts the responibility on her.
You have proven yourself to be very dangerous on the computer and around women. As a BW, I would not feel reassured with what you have offered up in the way of EPs thus far.
If you look at HPB/tst's list, you will see a stellar example of an active form of implementing EPs. Yours actually need to be stronger than his since you have had so many affairs online, ie, if you were my WH I would not want you using the internet at all. What about your cell phone? Do you have internet/texting capability on that? If so you should remove it.
You never responded to my post regarding the poly. Are you going to submit to that test regarding the fact that you are not intentionally hiding any other affairs? I don't know what you mean by HPB/tst's list? I listed earlier EP's that we have already done - deleting my facebook permanently, deleting fake facebooks and emails. Changed the passwords to random strings so I can never recover them. She just thinks that I can create new ones, which is a valid concern and is why it's necessary for the monitoring and/or poly. I already took a polygraph a week ago. I passed the questions about touching minors and about having sex with anyone but Amy and the two others during our marriage. I passed the question about having seen the OW in person since 9/2009. The other two questions gave me trouble - whether I was in love with the former HS girlfriend, and a question about oral sex with anyone else during our marriage. There's no one else that I have had oral sex with. At the time of the polygraph I was still hiding the fact that I had performed oral sex on the prostitute. I suspect even though the question was about anyone ELSE I still showed deception because I was hiding something about it. The question on love is difficult - I didn't think I was in love with her but maybe I am in denial because I know how terrible that was to do to Amy. Maybe I loved the feeling I got from the affair. I wondered about being with the OW and whether I would be happier but always concluded that would be a pipe dream and not something I wanted.
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HPBs list of EPs is the link of Extraordinary Precaution thread that was linked to you earlier - EP thread HERE
Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
3 cats
Married 23 years, together 24
Divorcing
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I missed that post, sorry. Thanks. I have written a letter to send to all friends and family. Dear family and friends,
I have lived a double life of lies and deceit over the last 8 years of my marriage.
I have gone repeatedly outside of my marriage for sexual fulfillment in various ways, culminating in a 5 month affair in 2009 with a former girlfriend and an emotional affair a few months ago.
In living this double life, I have lied to every one of you in some way or another.
I want you to know that I am terribly sorry for doing this to you, and to Amy - whom you all love and you all know is an amazing woman.
Right now I am committing myself to making the kinds of changes in my life and putting up extreme precautions to prevent myself from being able to do this again in the future. I pray that Amy can one day believe in me again.
I appreciate all of your support for Amy and I in this difficult time.
Eric
Last edited by Schlag; 10/26/11 12:27 PM.
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Here's my list of EP's.
Let me know what you think.
1. I will switch phones with you so that I don't have internet access on my phone. I will switch my phone number to a new one if you want. I will confirm whether or not texts can be accessed on the Verizon site and if not, disable texting on my phone.
2. I have already eliminated all social networking accounts. I will not make any more.
3. I will take polygraphs as often as I need to in the future to prove anything that can't be demonstrated otherwise.
4. I will install (or you can) software on the home computer so that everything I do is transparent. I will return the work laptop to the office permanently and buy one for you to use that you can password protect or install monitoring.
5. You already have access to all financial accounts.
6. I will work with an attorney to write a post-nuptial agreement.
7. I will quit my membership at the gym and only work out at home or close by.
8. I will not use cash. If I ever need cash for anything I will go through you.
9. I will explain to you the particulars of my pay statement so you know what everything is and where every penny of ours is going.
10. I will go to bed with you every night and not stay up later than you.
11. I will be 100% accountable with my time.
12. I will figure out how to be accountable on my work computer or get a job where I can.
13. I will protect you and your feelings above all else.
14. I will not participate in any one-on-one meetings with anyone of the opposite sex.
15. I will not discuss my personal marriage issues with anyone of the opposite sex.
16. I will not attend clubs, strip joints, or any such establishment
17. I will use the MB policy of joint agreement as a basis for all decisions.
18. I will be open and honest with you at all times about the past and present.
19. I will tell you where I need to go if it's not work or home, and if I need to make an adjustment to my schedule, I will notify you of the change immediately.
20. I will make your phone calls my highest priority by answering them or returning them immediately.
21. I will avoid all chat rooms, porn, member sites, etc.
22. I will commit to at least 15 hours of undivided attention with you to meet each other's emotional needs every week.
23. If any former contact finds a way to make contact, I will immediately end the contact and notify you.
24. I will put up any other boundary you ask of me.
25. I will read my "letter to myself" every morning, as well as Romans 6 through 8 and Hebrews 10:26 every single day to remind myself that one slip means losing you and my family and my eternal salvation.
26. I will bring you with me on any work travel, or I won't go.
27. I will not drink alcohol unless in the presence of you, and won't drink more than you consider appropriate.
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Always the contrarian, I'm going to disagree with you on this, IG. As a mtter of fact, I don't have to, because you refuted your statement almost immediately, but in doing so you provided Schlag with the answer to his issue:
[b][color:#FF0000]I even have vultures circling around me seeking to make good on my vulnerability No the vultures are not a temptation! ew are you kidding... Ok, NG, I do like your �just say no whatever the temptation� attitude. And I agree with it 100 per cent. But EPs DO keep temptations out..... I see a hot sports car parked on the street. I'd like to drive off in it, and I know enough about cars to be able to hot-wire start it. I do NOT do so, becasue in the greater scheme of things, enjoying such a joy-ride would likely bring high levels of misery and stress (arrest, etc) down on myself and my family. People do steal cars, though . In certain situations they just ignore the consequences so they can get the rush of stealing the car. But nobody wakes up one day and decides to steal a car out of nowhere. Same thing with affairs � nobody gets up totally faithful and with good boundaries in the morning and sleeps with an escort before the day is out. It always starts small. Stealing sweets, hanging out with bad friends, who justify bad actions comes before the car theft. Just as flirting online/inappropriate conversations etc comes before the affair. Yes temptations are �there� in that they exist out there in the world somewhere. But sexual temptations shouldn�t be a part of the life of anyone who is married. I am just trying to explain to Schlag that if temptations are there it is because he has allowed them to be. I.e. She had recently gotten divorced and was talking about her dysfunctions with sex. It triggered that need in me to feel like a man by showing her what I could do for her. He shouldn�t have been talking to a woman about her sex life at all. He created the temptation. He went looking for it. Thats why Shlag's focus should be on EPs, rather than complaining they are pointless because they are 'everywhere'. They are where you allow them. Inside or out.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I missed that post, sorry. Thanks. Don't miss any more posts, okay? Re-read everything in your thread carefully and make a todo list from what you are reading, then go through the list and do it all. On your list, include questions that people have asked you as well as things you need to go do. If you want your marriage to continue, don't leave any of this undone, or any post unread.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Right now my wife hates me and doesn't have any interest in EPs.
She switched the "Legal Separation" to "Dissolution of Marriage" last night.
It's just so awful that two years ago I blew my chance to fix things because I didn't have the help I needed here. I didn't institute radical truth or joint agreement - I half-assed some EP's but they were basically meaningless and now she feels that I already had my chance to fix it when I never really had the chance. #7 wouldn't have happened if I had done things right. We'd be two years into recovery and exploring how to meet each other's EN's instead of living this hell.
I just feel so lost. I am consumed with regret.
Last edited by Schlag; 10/26/11 04:05 PM.
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Divorces don't happen in an instant. You should be more concerned about righting the wrong by being the best man and husband you can be than having a second or third or fourth.... how many chances is it now?
Stop worrying about whether or not you get to go back to being her husband in a comfort zone. You should never want to go back there anyway.
Court her. Be kind and patient and all those things that a selfish person cannot sincerely do.
Do it without expectation of a single kindness from her.
Do it without self-flagellating about how bad you are. She already knows. She feels it. Stop it. It looks like you're trying to win by pity.
Be the best you can be because it's the right thing to do. Become the man you were meant to be without expectation of reward.
Got it?
Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1 The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"? The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!" If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Yeah, Thanks. I needed that.
Last edited by Schlag; 10/26/11 04:47 PM.
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Your wife needs help with all the babies. I was breastfeeding my four month old when my WH lit the bomb on my family. I was able to get a nanny to help because some days I couldn't get out of bed. I have a ton of kids, and the best thing you can do for her is get her help.
Can you hire someone for housework, cooking, with the kids?
I remember my hell after D-day and having the extra hands around the house so I could go die in my bed was what I needed.
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Here's my list of EP's.
Schlag,
Just a comment or two.
1. I will switch phones with you so that I don't have internet access on my phone. I will switch my phone number to a new one if you want[color:#000099]Just change it. take charge on switching your number. I will confirm whether or not texts can be accessed on the Verizon site and if not, disable texting on my phone.
2. I have already eliminated all social networking accounts. I will not make any more. I would add that you would not access the internet without her present, or unless necessary for business and only for business
3. I will take polygraphs as often as I need to in the future to prove anything that can't be demonstrated otherwise.
4. I will install (or you can) software on the home computer so that everything I do is transparent. I will return the work laptop to the office permanently and buy one for you to use that you can password protect or install monitoring.
5. You already have access to all financial accounts.
6. I will work with an attorney to write a post-nuptial agreement.
7. I will quit my membership at the gym and only work out at home or close by.
8. I will not use cash. If I ever need cash for anything I will go through you.
9. I will explain to you the particulars of my pay statement so you know what everything is and where every penny of ours is going.
10. I will go to bed with you every night and not stay up later than you.
11. I will be 100% accountable with my time in _x_ increments..
12. I will figure out how to be accountable on my work computer or get a job where I can.
13. I will protect you and your feelings above all else.
14. I will not participate in any one-on-one meetings or personal conversations with anyone of the opposite sex.
15. I will not discuss my personal marriage issues with anyone of the opposite sex.
16. I will not attend clubs, strip joints, or any such establishment
17. I will use the MB policy of joint agreement as a basis for all decisions.
18. I will be open and honest with you at all times about the past and present.
19. I will tell you where I need to go if it's not work or home, and if I need to make an adjustment to my schedule, I will notify you of the change immediately.
20. I will make your phone calls my highest priority by answering them or returning them immediately.
21. I will avoid all chat rooms, porn, member sites, etc.
22. I will commit to at least 15 hours of undivided attention with you to meet each other's emotional needs every week.
23. If any former contact finds a way to make contact, I will immediately end the contact and notify you.
24. I will put up any other boundary you ask of me.
25. I will read my "letter to myself" every morning, as well as Romans 6 through 8 and Hebrews 10:26 every single day to remind myself that one slip means losing you and my family and my eternal salvationI seriously doubt you will lose your eternal salvation if you forget one of 25+ eps. If you mean another affair, i'm with you here..
26. I will bring you with me on any work travel, or I won't go.
27. I will not drink alcohol unless in the presence of you, and won't drink more than you consider appropriate.[/color]
CV
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Right now my wife hates me and doesn't have any interest in EPs.
She switched the "Legal Separation" to "Dissolution of Marriage" last night.
It's just so awful that two years ago I blew my chance to fix things because I didn't have the help I needed here. I didn't institute radical truth or joint agreement - I half-assed some EP's but they were basically meaningless and now she feels that I already had my chance to fix it when I never really had the chance. #7 wouldn't have happened if I had done things right. We'd be two years into recovery and exploring how to meet each other's EN's instead of living this hell.
I just feel so lost. I am consumed with regret. Schlag, A lot can happen between here and divorce court. Ok... She doesn't have interest in Eps. Work them for yourself so you are a better person regardless of whether she stays or bails. You can't fix the past, but you can change who you are now and who you will be in the future. CV
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In any relationship for the rest of your life going forward will need EP's. You are a danger to women.
If you are to raise your precious babies do it right. Demonstrate for them the man you want them to either marry or become.
Live your EP's everyday so you know you are a man of character, integrity, and honor.
Last edited by itistoughlove; 10/26/11 04:48 PM.
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Your wife needs help with all the babies. I was breastfeeding my four month old when my WH lit the bomb on my family. I was able to get a nanny to help because some days I couldn't get out of bed. I have a ton of kids, and the best thing you can do for her is get her help.
Can you hire someone for housework, cooking, with the kids?
I remember my hell after D-day and having the extra hands around the house so I could go die in my bed was what I needed. I can't hire someone but I can help her. I already helped her before and things are no different now. i always cooked and did laundry and such. More than her. we hired a cleaning lady every 2-4 weeks to catch up but I'll probably have to clean more now. Also her mom and stepdad were here last week and my mom is now here for a week. ******************************** Side issue - I'm having a problem "trickling truth". She keeps saying that. I want to be honest and am trying to be honest. i give her details when she asks specific questions, usually because I don't remember the details until she asks about them. Then she gets pissed off all over again. Everything I did except #7 was 2.5+ years ago and I have a terrible memory as it is. I'm thinking about putting together a written document of everything I can remember with as much detail as I can. Would this be good? It still doesn't change the fact that when she asks me about specific things I remember them.
Last edited by Schlag; 10/26/11 04:50 PM.
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Right now my wife hates me and doesn't have any interest in EPs.
She switched the "Legal Separation" to "Dissolution of Marriage" last night.
It's just so awful that two years ago I blew my chance to fix things because I didn't have the help I needed here. I didn't institute radical truth or joint agreement - I half-assed some EP's but they were basically meaningless and now she feels that I already had my chance to fix it when I never really had the chance. #7 wouldn't have happened if I had done things right. We'd be two years into recovery and exploring how to meet each other's EN's instead of living this hell.
I just feel so lost. I am consumed with regret. Schlag, Do you realize that the EP's really have nothing specific to do with your current wife? These are things you are going to need to do regardless if your marriage survives or not. I think you are doing and saying these things to get your wife back and I believe thats the wrong justification. Right now you need to concentrate on becoming the Christian man you were designed to be regardless of how your wife reacts.
BH: 46
FWW: 44
3 DD: 20,17,11
Married 24 years
PA/EA: 5/08
DDay: 6/08
NC: 8/08
Previous EA 1998 confessed 8/08
In Recovery
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********************************
Side issue - I'm having a problem "trickling truth". She keeps saying that.
I want to be honest and am trying to be honest. i give her details when she asks specific questions, usually because I don't remember the details until she asks about them. Then she gets pissed off all over again.
Everything I did except #7 was 2.5+ years ago and I have a terrible memory as it is.
I'm thinking about putting together a written document of everything I can remember with as much detail as I can. Would this be good? It still doesn't change the fact that when she asks me about specific things I remember them. A document would be great. Something you could write out or print and give to her. Remember it will hurt her to read it all. Do this... Make a calendar as best you can. Fill in all the specific details (just facts) and then write it out in a story type of form. Avoid saying things like "I felt my wife was X. Keep it about you and what you did only. Give her time to read it and process it. Then give her time to ask any questions she has and answer them totally, making yourself available to answer follow up questions she may have. encourage her to write the questions down so you can answer them as well. As you do this, your memory may return CV
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