suggestion: you might want to consider your OWN TONE before you make snippy little posts like this to very the people you have asked for HELP. None of us have to help you. We all have families and lives of our own. Who has time to post to someone who repays our charity with ungrateful little tomes like this?

Sugarcane and Susie are both valuable, knowlegable posters who are in a postion to help you quite a bit. Running them off is not WISE. You can use all the help you can get and if you are going to treat board members like this, I am sure not willing to sacrifice any of own time here either.

This is help ?

This is what set the tone with me.

And SQ was collateral damage.
I do owe SQ an apology,
and it will be forthcoming.

This is gratitude? You are shooting at the helicopters. Do you plan on running off everyone with your ingratitude?

Stop this DD. What you are doing is not uncommon, but trust me it will NOT serve you well. Bring a little humility to the table. Stop focusing on the manner of delivery and instead focus on the message and the advice. These people are very skilled in helping men like you in the situation you are in. Please listen to them.

Sometimes their manner is no nonsense because they hear the same story day after day. Day after day they watch men like you reject their advice and subsequently watch marriages crash and burn.

Back up, slow down and LISTEN. READ. Post questions. Listen carefully to the replies. Read some more. You have a lot to learn and fortunately you have stumbled upon an invaluable resource---the vets on this board.

Post details when asked. No one here is interested in tracking you down and stealing your children, but details of ages, length of marriage, identity of OM DO matter. No one asks questions here out of idle curiosity.

DD, THIS was my first post to you. I took some time composing it and I don't see anything wrong with its tone.

I'm sure you thank me for it, although you haven't said so.

Below was my second post to you. You wouldn't give the age of you child as you were trying not to be identified.

I thought the age of your child was very important, because if she was 2, then perhaps you could not make her understand about the affair, but if she was 8, then you most certainly could. This was all connected to ending the situation of your living in the house with your wife and trying not to let your child know that you are estranged because she is having an affair. You should not have been trying to do that - not if you were trying to use Marriage Builders, anyway.

The details we were asking were important, but you seemed determined not to tell us something as non-identifying as the age of your child. Did you know that you would be advised to do things differently once we knew the full details of what you hadn't done so far? Since you've been here for a while, you must have done.

Other people had frustrations with your evasions too, and the evasions were all connected with your unwillingness to do anything to fight for your family. Exposure is the first tool in the affair-fighting armoury, and that includes exposing to the other person's spouse, and to your children.

It turned out that not only had you not exposed to anyone, you hadn't even tried to discover OM's identity. You hadn't tried to bust up the affair, and you were willing to le your wife live with you and have sex with whomever she pleased - and you were asking about Plan B under those circumstances. What a mess. No wonder this information had to be dragged out of you.

Well, you don't have to answer any questions, and you do don't have to take any advice - though I am at a loss to know why you wouldn't fight for your child's future.

We've seen this before, DD. A poster will come here, full of of anger, hurt and frustration over their spouse's infidelity.

They come here for comfort and commiseration. And you'll get a good dose of that. But you're on a site that is unlike many others. Most sites will commiserate with you, and that's ALL they'll do. That's easy. We don't do only that, here.

When a poster like you comes on the board, we immediately pull out our marriage-saving equipment and get to work. That's sometimes startling to a new poster and they balk at the thought that they may be able to help themselves. Many times they don't like hearing what they need to do to try to end their spouse's affair. It's unsavory to them, maybe. Or maybe it sounds like too much work, or maybe it sounds too intrusive into their spouse's secret life. We try to disabuse the betrayed spouse of those notions while outlining what they can do to try to end their spouse's affair.

DD, your WW's affair is garden-variety. I know you think it's 'different' or that your situation is 'special' but I can assure you that it is not.

For you to distract yourself with side-topics like taking exception to the posting styles of some posters is a time-suck. Don't waste your time there. Listen to what they are saying. There is a wealth of knowledge here. USE US. That's why we're here. We've been in your 'special' situation.

As far as the posters you've dismissed: I happen to 'know' them well from my posting time here. I know they are quick to forgive the outbursts of new posters because they know you are hurting. I suspect Susie and Sugar will be on deck and ready to help you, because that's why they're here. (My apologies to Susie and Sugar for speaking for them )

So please listen to what they advise and let's try to get your wife back home with you, okay?

First I want to say, that I appreciate the clarifications posted my everyone, as well as the rational advice offered,
especially SC & SQ to whom, as a result I owe apologies.

I can see and admit, that I was myopically focused on comments taken out of context.

And I read other things, posted by the same individuals with the same tainted perspective. I was out of line.

And for that, I formally apologize to SC and SQ.

I also have to admit, that I was to a certain degree overwhelmed by the volume of input received that I didn't as SW indicated, "Back up, slow down and LISTEN. READ." Thank you, SW.


Second,
Given the "forever" lifespan of information placed on the internet, I go to what some would consider extreme measures to protect my privacy and avoid disclosing information of any granularity on a venue that is literally by definition "wide open to the world" forever.

Circumstances, yes. Specifics that can be correlated, no.
Sorry, but that's not going to change. I will forever be what some consider "overly cautious" and question the "need to know" of information requests. I fail to see or agree there's a necessity of detailing for example, exact ages, locations, dates,
and circumstantial details from which one could infer a correlation. (bits of information, not necessarily disclosed all at once, but in multiple instances that can be "glued together" (i.e., 45m, 40f, Houston, 9m child) = fits the description of "The Jones" pathetic example I know but I think it demonstrates my point.) IF this detracts from the input that can be provided, I will accept that limitation.


DD

DD you need a plan, and the only question the vets will ask are the necessary questions to help make and execute the plan to be most successful. Not answering the questions will only lead you astray. And reduces your chances of success.

And I think a meteore will hit you before people will actually figure out who you are from answering the general questions.

In addition, you need to bust up the affair, and you can not do that secretly, things are going to come out.

I was horrified to share the dirty laundry, that was trashy I thought, invasion of privacy, a personal matter. But I had a choice, try to safe the marriage, or move on. And later on I discovered how many people already knew.

Anyways, don't disclose names etc, you don't want a google search to find you, but yes, do answer the questions so the vets can help you make the best plan possible for you! Good luck!

You are very gracious, DD. I appreciate your apology.

Now, shut up and LISTEN! (Except when we ask you questions - then you may speak!)

That Sugar. She's a caution, ain't she.

I understand your desire to remain private online because I am the same way. As far as how much info you need to give: We don't want names, locations or kid's names. Nothing like that. As a matter of fact, the moderators will edit those out as a way of keeping you safe on this site.

No one is going to ask you for identifying info. But there are general things you'll be asked so the posters can get a better sense of how to help you tackle this. If you don't know why the info is needed, ask. If you're comfortable with the reason, supply it. If not, just say you're not comfortable supplying that info. But again, the posters aren't going to ask you for personally identifying info.

DD, did you get the OM's wifes information? Did you copy and paste his facebook contacts into a word doc?

ML

I did.

There are a few "similarities"/duplicates on the friends lists between the wife's and OM's, with the saddest being a little girl, who I am assuming is the OM's child.

It adds to the hurt, knowing two innocent childrens families are going to be destroyed as a result of their parents selfishness.

I'm at the point that I can't tolerate the lying, the shamelessness and mallice anymore, because she seems perfectly content on keeping up her bad behavior until she forces me to initiate a divorce. (Which is what I believe she wants, to avoid her being tagged as "the bad guy".) It's such warped thinking, I have a hard time believing it's the same person who not too long ago said, "I love you."

I am considering exposure of the OM in an attempt to stop the affair, but I have to wonder if like I said earlier it will do anything other than ingrain the resentment and unwilling to forgive mindset and ratchet up the bad havior out of spite, worsening the circumstances for our child, and myself in the future.

Resentment is a consequence of the fog, which is caused by the affair. If you effectively kill the affair, this won't be a problem. What typically happens is that when the fog wears off, the WW actually THANKS the BH for the exposure, because it brought her back to her senses.

Now, you will rachet up the spiteful behavior if you do a half assed exposure. The reason is because a half assed exposure is just enough to piss off the affairees but not enough to kill the affair. It is like bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight. You just infuriate your opponent and cause him to shoot harder.

You WILL infuriate her when you first expose the affair. Just count on that. You have to understand that this is just like bringing in a crowd of people to the crackhouse to watch the crackheads get high. They are FURIOUS that you interrupted their high, but when the drug wears off, they are grateful that you got them out of the crackhouse. Do you see what I mean?

There are no guarantees with exposure, but it is your BEST CHANCE at saving your marriage. Like I said earlier, affairs thrive on secrecy, so there is no other weapon that is as effective as exposure in killing them.

Your marriage CAN survive her temporary fury over exposure, but it can't survive an ongoing affair. You should not be afraid of her anger. Just expect it and focus on killing her affair. THAT will give you the best chance of saving your marriage.

Exposure should be done with precision and thought to get the best outcome. It should be done on the same day in order to effect a TSUNAMI. You will want to CALL family members and the OM's wife personally. CALL THE OM'S WIFE FIRST AND THEN MOVE ONTO THE OTHER CALLS. Be sure and give the OMW's your wife's cell phone # and work # in case she wants to call her. You need to enlist her parents, close sibs, family members and friends to call her up and try and persuade her to end her affair.

When you speak to her folks tell them about the affair, explain you love your wife and are doing everything in your power to save your marriage. Tell them you are calling them because they are an influential person in her life. ASK THEM TO CALL HER AND USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO PERSUADE HER TO END HER AFFAIR. It would also be great if her parents could call the OM and tell him to BUZZ OFF. They should make it clear to your WW and the OM that he will not be allowed to darken their doorstep.

I would then move onto to a facebook exposure of the OM's contacts. Start with his parents. Ask them to call you personally. Expose to the OM's other contacts. If he has alot, then prioritize them starting with parents, family, married friends. Try and expose to the OMW's parents too.

Here are some sample letters you can use [be sure and change your fb picture to one of you, your wife, and your children] SEND THE LETTER OUT VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE AND SPACE IT 60 SECONDS APART SO YOU ARE NOT SHUT DOWN FOR FLOODING:

After you have done this, I would sit down any children age 4 and above and tell them all about their mother's affair. Tell them why adultery is immoral and give them the NAME of the OM. He is the enemy of their family and they have a right to know who the fox in the henhouse is. Tell them you are doing everything in your power to save their family. They should feel perfectly free to question their mother on the reasons why she is destroying their family. That is their RIGHT.

They have to know the facts about the tension in their home or they will conclude they are the cause. Little kids can deal with the truth much better than lies and if you lie to them, you will just be teaching them that dishonesty is acceptable.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

You know what women want? They want a husband who will fight for their marriage and who is man enough to put her in her place. She hates you because you tolerate her abuse. Yes, she will be angry at first, but you will see her turn into a pussycat once she sees you won't tolerate the abuse anymore. She will take a new look at you if you start fighting.

And see, you are in a position to win. The OM is not going to leave his wife over a cheap piece of side action. And even if he did, their affair would never last. You are in the best position to win because a) you have history with her, b) you are the father of her children, c) you are her husband. You have a distinct advantage over this loser.

As soon as you start raising holy hell with loser boy, he will run like the dog he is. OM are pansies. You start giving him hell, and he will run. You can win if you just start fighting, DD.

Yes. WW will get hissing, spitting mad and she will get over it.
Expect it. Do not get mad back. Just deflect the venom (and it will be exorcist level stuff she will throw at you).
Yes. The kids will be upset. But them being upset by the truth is more empowering to them then being upset by the unknown situation in their family. Knowledge is power even for the young ones. They are people too you know.

p.s. if she tries to throw you out, tell her no thankee Bob!! And if she tries to take your children [a common threat] just tell her you will get a court order to bring them back and will use evidence of her adultery with a married man to do so. We had judges who were so infuriated at this ploy with a wayward wife who snatched the kids out of their home, that he gave the BH possession of the home and told the WW to go home and pack and get out!! And leave the kids with the H.

You need to paint her a very ugly picture of the future if she tries to bring any legal action. Remind her that you can subpeona loserboy to court to give testimony of his adultery, which would speak to her fitness as a parent.

Expect her to make some wild threats and just counter them calmly so she understands that you have the upper hand and won't be rolling over and playing dead. Most WW's have this fantasy that they can just kick their H out at will.

Here is the message you should be sending to this scumbag who has assaulted your family - you need to run that bastage off!!:

I understand the method.

But there's an aspect I don't think anyone's addressed.

Given, " Tell them you are calling them because they are an influential person in her life. ASK THEM TO CALL HER ANDUSETHEIR INFLUENCE TO PERSUADE HER TO END HER AFFAIR."

In the circumstance where there is no one from either her family or mine who would have any influence on her, and there is literally ONE friend who would remotely have an opportunity to "get through to her", and this friend knows the behavior she's engaging in and had / continues to express her displeasure and get her to wake up, and even her pleas of common sense fall on deaf ears.......exposure is of no benefit other than being viewed as smearing.

If there is any hope of reconciliation, the last thing I want is for "the world" to know about my wifes bad behavior.

This is why I am considering exposure from the OM perspective.

Does a "one sided exposure" have less of an impact ?

You don't know who will or won't have an influence on her, so don't pre-judge that. You don't know. So don't rule out anyone. Often NO ONE will have any influence over her, but having her hear from others will force her to see herself through their eyes. It is a much needed cold splash of reality. Just the exposure has a great negative effect on the affair and her attitude towards the affair.

Another way it has great benefit is your WW will know she can never have a future with the OM because if the whole family knows all about it, she can't ever bring him around. They will know she is shagging a married man so she can't introduce him as some new boyfriend in the future. '


It is the exact OPPOSITE. If there is to be any hope of reconciliation, the last thing you want is for the affair to be kept secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy, after all! Keep in mind, exposure is a positive thing, not a negative thing.