Hahaha. I'm off tomorrow. I'll call if I find my phone! If you're unlucky I'll sing.


CV

Had an absolute blast last night. Although its not something I plan on doing regularly (I'm not a bar/club guy), it was still fun.

Also, Ive to realize I probably don't have much of a chance at getting DD. I work 60 - 70 hrs a week with no family around to help care for daughter while I work. I have to keep the 2 jobs.

Working the 2 jobs makes it extremely difficult, with no support, to even get my parenting time. I know that someone might say "make a sacrifice" but its either work 2 jobs and get to a financially stable place or 1 job and struggle.

It would seem ww may end up with everything she wants.

Well, tonight, I'm gonna take advantage of an opportunity to learn some kung fu. A Master teacher, whom I work with, offered to drastically reduce my rate because of the help I gave him during his marital problems.

So I found out ww has filed bankruptcy. I'm wondering if anyone else has had any experience with bankruptcy during divorce? Also, what about the ensuing custody battle and they both impact the divorce process? I've sent my lawyer these same questions but I wanted to see if others had similar experience while I await his reply...

Would still love to hear of anyone's experience with the above. I realized, too, that she's filing a BK but due to her poor credit, most of the stuff was in my name and on my credit. Her BK won't impact that meaning she won't be free and clear like she thinks. Maybe I'm wrong.

On another note, went to my first Kung Fu class tonight and I'm beat. It was great, though. I will definitely be going back.

I'm actually extra glad I went. It helped me get through the first Halloween not trick or treating with DD. Its okay though. I get stronger day by day. I have to keep thinking I'm exactly where God wants me to be.

You should change your screen name to kato now :-).

On a serious note, if she files chapter 7 (most common), she is free and clear of all debt. It will all fall on you. It's a clean wipe of her credit and debt. she can exempt certain things (car for instance if she's paying on it), but you are left holding the bag.

Sorry I missed ur call. Ended up spending fam time and turned the phone down. I'm off tomorrow tho.

CV

I was thinking last night, am I getting to the point of no return when it comes to my desire to reconcile? I really don't know if I'm there yet, but I may be getting there pretty soon. IDK. I am having fun just doing things by myself and for myself. I'm sure not having spoken to my wife since June has played a large part in that.

I was reading on another forum about a guy in a similar situation who's ww got dumped by her AP and came crying back. But he already had a gf and refused. I don't have a gf and I'm not looking for one since I'm still married but I seem to relate to him very well. Deep down I know it would be at least worth a shot to try for my daughter's sake but I'm not so sure it would be the best thing for me or for us anymore.

I really can't say for sure because ww is still in the thick of the fog but I'm really starting to wonder.

Only time will tell Mark.
Don't try to pigeon hole what you would do.
Cross that bridge if you ever get there and your emotional state towards it will be in a totally different place....so....who knows your position by then. You don't even need to know now.

Yeah,I do understand but I do know without a doubt that I CAN live without her and I'm having a pretty good time doing it right now.

I know I can't say for sure what I would do but it wasn't even something I ever imagined even thinking months ago. Now it's a consideration. Maybe it's a sign that progress is being made on my road to personal recovery. IDK.

I think I might have broken a toe at Kung Fu class tonight. I may be limping around both my jobs tomorrow but I think I'll make it. If I can get through what has easily been the most tramatic experience of my life, no toe is gonna keep me down.

It won't because in the words of the group, Destiny's Child, I'M A SURVIVOR!!!

I posted on your other thread. I'm posting so others can see.

I filed for bankruptcy while the divorce was pending. Here are the effects:

1. No affect on custody. Don't even think about bringing it up in the custody hearing

2. She will have to declare all joint debts. Her accountabily for those debts will be discharged and everything will be on you. You won't be able to get her to pay some of those discharged debts in the property settlement either because the bankruptcy trumps the divorce decree.

3. Nothing on the property division side can get completed until her bankruptcy is discharged.

4. Was it chapter 7 or chapter 13 bankruptcy? Huge difference. Chapter 7 wipes out everything. Chapter 13 puts you on a payment plan. A means test determines what you are eligible for. You want to get at a minimum temporary orders for custody and child support in before the bankruptcy. In my case, without paying child support, I would have been chapter 13. With child support I paid included, I qualified for chapt 7.

5. If I were you, I would consider bankruptcy too.

6. If both of you file for bankruptcy, it makes property division much easier - there are no debts to divide and you are not taking from Peter to pay Paul on the final settlement.

7. One mistake we made was exWW and I filing for bankruptcy separate. ExWW was not able to scrape up enough funds to pay a lawyer until about 8 months after I filed my bankruptcy. It ended up delaying the property division by about a year.

Honestly? Bankruptcy gets a bad rap. It nukes your credit but it also allows you to rebuild - just running up debt while your credit rating tanks is much worse. I ended up filing for chapter 7 therefore wiping out all debts. We built a horse training and boarding business on debt and when she had her affair, all our business went elsewhere with no cashflow to pay the loans. Look at it as a bad business write off.

Fortunately, the only debts wiped out was credit card debt and business loans. All real debt (mortgage, cars, tractor, etc) was either sold and the loan paid in full or retained in the bankruptcy. The best money I ever spent was the 2K for the bankruptcy lawyer.

Here are some things I did prior to the bankruptcy:

- found an apartment to live in with a long enough lease to get me at least a year out from the discharge

- bought a car to replace my car that was falling apart and retained the new car as part of the bankruptcy. Bankruptcy court did not bat an eye - the car and my apartment where well within what someone with my means could reasonably expect to own. Don't go buying a 90K Porsche or a McMansion - that will raise a lot of eyebrows. Just be reasonable and show you are being reasponsible with money. They will work with you.

- I filed before my divorce started to get really expensive with lawyer fees. My lawyer knows he isn't going to be stiffed by a bankruptcy.

I filed in July 2009, I was discharged in Oct 2009 so I am two years out. In Aug 2010, I rented a really nice townhouse. While I was looking, the realtors all said I was a prime candidate for renting because I had no debt. It made me a very viable candidate for a renter. In March 2009, I got two credit cards with about a $250 limit on both. I always keep a $50 balance on each every month. In two years since my discharge, my credit score has gone from 500 to just a hair under 700. If I wanted to, I could qualify for a very competitive mortgage with the USDA with no money down to buy my townhouse. I haven't yet because of my custody battle but it is in my long term plans.

Bottom line, it's not the end of the world.

You are approaching it wrong. Drop the part time job so you can be around your daughter. Better yet, try and negotiate something like a 2-2-5 arrangement (Mon-Tues with you, Wed - Thurs with mom, swap weekends).

If you go with the mentality of having to work two jobs, you are establishing status quo with the courts. Therefore, you will get the Every Other Weekend Daddy Sc#$%job custody arrangement. This will mean you are paying 20-25% of your TAKE HOME PAY in child support. Since you have been working two jobs for awhile, your income for child support purposes will be computed on the two jobs. So, you will be stuck working two jobs so you can pay the 25% of the combined income to your STBX. Look at it this way, you will be working to support the government and your ex.

If you have a shared (50/50 residential time) custody arrangement, you have a very compelling arguement to the court that you can not work the two jobs because you have to be home for your daughter. If you divorce, you are not going to have the same standard of living anyways.

If you are struggling financially and part of the reason is crush debt, you may need to consider bankruptcy. Better to nuke and rebuild than to keep spinning your wheels.

The financial struggles are not due to crush debt. Its due to more going out than coming in. Just regular bills and the bear minimum at that.

Its almost like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I don't have a second job, I can't live. All my bills were behind and now I'm almost caught up. I never had any extra money to do things to help me "move on". Now I do and I'm enjoying life again, but it seems to have hurt me when it comes to my fight for my daughter. I needed it for the continued divorce/custody litigation and now I work too much. I CAN'T WIN.

Any advise on this predicament? I'm just ready to give up on everything...

Can you get a room mate to cover some expenses?
Can you find a way to live cheaper bill wise?
Can you reconstruct your life to be workable with less work?

That's all I can think of.......

Its as cheap as can be. I have a 2 br apartment (with one br belonging to daughter) where I only pay electric. I have no cable, no internet, no home phone (just my cell with cheapest plan I could get by with). I only use lights at home when I need to. I don't watch much TV unless its a movie at bedtime. What else can I do?

I don't do a lot outside of the Kung Fu classes which don't really cost anything because I helped the instructor during his marriage crisis and he wanted to show his appreciation. It doesn't cost money to go shoot the breeze with my buddies a couple of nights a week. I don't drink or do drugs. I'm at a bare minimum. I can't afford mediation, the GAL, the rest of my lawyers retainer without another job.

A few things - it looks like you have done a lot of stuff to pare down as best you could.

You might be able to get away with a 1 bedroom apartment - your daughter sleeps in your bed when you have her and you sleep on the couch. I would do this as a last resort.

Here's what's nice about the 2-2-5 arrangement. Let's say mom has them Mon, Tues, you have them Wed, THurs, then swap weekends. That gives you two weeknights every week to do a part time job. Then, you can try and swing working every other weekend or use that for you. It gives you more options for part time work than say a week on / week off schedule.

You gotta get creative. Look at it this way, what if god forbid your WW had passed away instead of having an affair. You would have had to totally re-arrange your life to take care of your daughter. A divorce isn't much different.

What are your expenses (no dollars, just what they are)? What are your temporary orders for spousal support, etc?

If you are paying a mortgage and an apartment, something is going to have to give.Very few people who aren't being targeted by the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters can afford this.

If you have a house and your WW lives in it and isn't paying anything, try and rectify that.

- Get her to kick in some rent (unlikely)
- Sell it, give her a bigger chunk of equity than otherwise entitled to give her a deposit and a couple months rent for a new place
- if no equity, rent it out.

I just want to t/j for a sec -

PSU, thank you for being able and willing to support mark with your unique insight. I'm always glad to see you posting to him, because I know you will give him the benefit of what you learned during your very painful experience.

end t/j.

One other thing, if you haven't yet, read David Ramsey's Total Money Makeover. What the book does is make you think about the tough choices:

- selling the house and renting something much smaller and cheaper
- get rid of the $500/month SUV and get a 10 year old beater car. Chances are your repair bills will be less than what you are paying on the car note.
- kick the Starbucks habit
- it gives you a plan if you are severely in the hole and how to get out of it to reduce long term damage (paying the mortgage and car loan before credit card payments, etc.)


I don't care what anyone says, unless you are extremly wealthy, divorce is a financial nuclear bomb. Many people are struggling and are in the same boat as you. In a divorce, there are two housholds to support instead of one.

I don't have a house payment. Our marital home is in foreclosure. She moved out of it a month after I did because she said she couldn't stay there and have peace.

I don't have a car payment right now. I'm driving a car (her car) with 166,000 miles on it. We agreed at the beginning (when things were amicable) that she could use my car for 2 months and I would get it back. Then she told me she would only give it back after I went to the bank and refinanced it. I told her that wasn't our agreement. She said if I didn't, she would go sell it (which I knew she couldn't do). I found out in June that she went and refinanced it (taking my name off of it) without my consent or approval.