So.....how do I summarize my life today? There are a million adjectives but the one I use the most frequently is "lucky".

In a nutshell....a big nutshell. My ex-hubby and I discovered this site and the writings of Dr. Harvey back in 2000 when we were in a marital crisis. Textbook I guess: unhappy wife, my needs were no longer being met, didn't feel "heard"...went outside the marriage... with a woman. She was married as well...we both had 2 children. Hubby and I did what we could....therapy..me going "no contact" with the other....etc. A divorce was the last thing my husband wanted, and having come from divorce myself, I couldn't believe I was contemplating causing the same kind of pain to my kids. But- I did. I felt that my needs were better met by this woman, I felt that my sexuality was trumping everything else. However, in the back of my mind, I also knew enough about myself that I did not label myself as straight or gay, but that I was just in love with whom I loved. So- we divorced, she divorced as well and we began the arduous task of blending families and dealing with the aftermath of divorce. Through it all however, my ex-husband remained the most amazing adult, he knew enough to not talk badly about me in front of the kids, he did whatever he could do to help me......even if it meant assisting me to have a better life.....without him. It was exactly this kind of stuff that kept me in conflict for years. My ex-husband was one of my greatest friends.

My relationship with my partner certainly beat all the odds and initial expectations, as we were together for a little under ten years. But it was a highly tumultuous relationship...filled with "drama" and "conflict" which I translated as "passion"- something that I felt my marriage had been lacking. Because...you know..he is a good guy, he was dependable, he wasn't hurtful and we didn't fight a lot. My immature and selfish brain decided that it was a "boring" existence.....but I can only say that my ex and I did have some legitimate issues.....but how I looked at things then is very different than how I look at things now.

Today......I finally had to get honest- with myself- and everyone else. I have not been happy for many years and will continue in therapy to get at my root causes....but the awareness I now have is proving instrumental in my personal growth and wisdom. Why am I "lucky"? Because my ex-hubby and I had one of the best divorces any one could ever thik of, almost "Demi and Bruce" level. We rose for the sake of the children. and while I continued to try and fit the square peg in the round hole of my new relationship, my ex-husband went forward with his life, focusing on our children and his business. However, he never began another relationship...but he truly felt that my sexuality was the defining issue in our divorce, so he says adamantly today that he never thought he and I could ever have a future together again. And because I truly wanted to make my relationship work, I maintained the boundaries that were in place and certainly never shared the internal struggle I continued to have. However, my partner always felt it, always knew it....and it was the underlying current that probably created most of our conflict...and kept the never ending cycle alive.

It finally came to the point that I was seeing that our relationship clearly brought out the "worst" in each other. We split again, and this time, in a vulnerable state, I "re-engaged" with my ex-husband....and the bells and whistles went off in this decade older brain. I finally saw what everyone else probably always saw, that the real love of my life, the real happiness for me lied with my ex-husband, in the life I had before, but was unable to fully appreciate.

Today, my ex-husband and I are reconciled, and will remarry again soon. We are licing a total fairy tale. Sometimes people will ask "if you didn't work out before, what makes you think you will work out again now?"...and my stock answer is simple: "because I am different and my prespective is different"....all this time I was hoping for unconditional love to come into my life, when, in fact, I had had it all along.

All that being said, I do not regreat the past 10 years, do not regret my former relationship, do not regret my divorce. Had none of that happened, I would never in a million years have the understanding I have now, the gratitude I have in my life, the absolute joy in having our family intact once again. Our children are happier and happier as we continue the transition into this new life. Because it is a transition....none of us are the same and in many ways, I am entering into another new relationship...but with someone who I have 23 years of history with, someone who has been my greatest friend, and someone who loves my children just as much as I.

so...yes...this is why I am "lucky".

Welcome to MB, KK.

DId you ever post here before? What was your posting name, if so?

Hi kk, welcome back to Marriage Builders. What precautions have been put in place to protect your husband from future affairs? If you are familiar with Dr Harley's work, you know that he views adultery as the worst thing that can happen to someone, worse than rape or physical assualt. And you did that to him. What extraordinary precautions have you put in place to ensure that doesn't happen again?

Dr Harley doesn't advocate unconditional love, because it is unrealistic in marriage, but he does advocate Just Compensation. Just compensation to the victim of an affair benefits the marriage and benefits you. He writes about it here: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

It almost seems like your affair has been swept under the rug like it was no more significant than a short camping trip. I hope that is not the case, because that would be tragic for your future, not to mention the horrendous message sent to your children. I am sure you don't want your children to believe that adultery is just another lifestyle choice. How have you overcome the message of that role modeling?

Hi,

Obviously to try and condense the complexities of my story of the past 10 years in a few paragraphs was bound to be pretty impossible. Part of my internal conflict for the past decade was based on the guilt and shame and remorse of my actions prior to the end of our marriage. This has been discussed at length many times with my ex-husband and I over the many years since our separation. I agree that infidelity and that kind of rejection is almost worse than death. And I know that because in my subsequent relationship I was on the receiving end. Do you believe in karma? I understand the need for "just compensation" and my ex-husband will tell you that he has seen me make a "living amends" to him and our children in the past years..and while that may seem impossible as we weren't together, we have continued to have a relationship..and just because we were no longer physically intimate does not mean I wasn't able to repent...to others..and to God. My ex husband also recognizes the dynamics that were at play in the marriage that brought us to such a point. Again.....while that is wonderful...and marriage is a two way street.....I recognize that much of what occurred had more to do with ME and my character defects than problems in the marriage. To even think my affair was "swept under the rug like a camping trip" only proves how little was expressed in the few paragraphs I wrote.

My ex-husband has told me that he does trust me..he long ago made the "decision to trust me again...until evidence produced to the contrary"....in 10 years I have been honest with him about my life and I have walked my talk. In 10 years he learned that he could be o.k. outside this relationship, that he was a self-sufficient individual and does not need outside validation from another. This is the person I was prior to our marriage...this is the person I have become/am becoming again.

As far as the whole thinking about "the reason there were not 2 affairs is probably due to lack of opportunity"....is somewhat rubbish. At least in my case, I had ample opportunities in my marriage, have had ample opportunities since my partner and I separated...and I am sure if I wanted I could act out as well now. No thanks. I agree there is really no such thing as "unconditional love"....of course we all have conditions. I simply used the term to drive the message of how wonderful this man is, how aware he is of the complexities of human nature..and how well he has loved me- in the greatest sense. He let me go.....and I came back......he gave me 10 years to figure out these hard lessons. People think that they leave one relationship and its struggles for the next, new, much improved relationship- that will simply have its own new struggles....and much like any "geographical cure", you take yourself wherever you go.

and as far as any "horrendous message" to our children: They were 4 and 10 at the time and we believe, unaware, of the timeline of things.....we do believe that they are still under the impression that my subsequent relationship did not begin til after their dad and I separated. However, without getting into inappropriate, unnecessary details, I have had many a discussion with them about how I have made many mistakes as an adult and have caused people pain as a result and that I continue to try and bring about healing. I recognize only too well the legacy I have created here with the divorce. My parents divorced, my father was unfaithful and I swore I would never be like that. I'll bet my kids are thinking the same thing. I sure hope they don't make the same mistakes as I.....but we talk about the reality that they will make mistakes all their own..and guilt and shame are self-defeating emotions and that learning from he mistakes and not repeating them will always be the real goal.

I'm asking again, kk,
Also, do you love your H today? Romantically and passionately, I mean - not only as a friend and the father of your children with whom you share a history?

I posted back in 2000/2001 I believe and my name may have been "candybars" or something like that.

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE my ex-husband! I am amazed at the passion I have for him today......and yes, passion that exceeds friendship and loyalty and parental bond. In further honesty, sexual issues were part of the marital difficulties.....but here is another piece as to what I know for sure now. Back when we were married, I was an obese stay at home mom with 2 young kids. I hated my body, I struggled everyday with my weight..I didn't feel that I was attractive....my ex was working mega amounts of OT, we had financial stresses..he was TIRED!!! Yes, he did become neglectful, yes, he didn't hear me, yes, I did not feel appreciated. I wasn't getting enough attention, emotionally and physically. BUT..I didn't recognize that he was busting his [censored] for me and the kids, I didn't recognize that in many ways, because of my low self-esteem, I enabled a lot of the neglect, I didn't feel worthy enough to communicate more assertively.

Today (and for years now) I am 100 lbs lighter, I work 2 jobs and have a good income, I know now what tired feels like! It was so funny in my subsequent relationship when often, things were in reverse- and she had some issues with me that I had with my ex-husband and I would think "omg, NOW I know what he must have felt like!"......lightening bulb after lightening bulb. Similarly, when ex-hub had no one to do his laundry, clean the house, hold at night, entertain the kids so he could get something done, etc..he thought to himself "[censored].....she used to do ALOT and I didn't appreciate it"...............

Emotionally, my ex-husband has met my needs more and more in recent years than he did at the end of our marriage. Today, as is usually the result, we have an awesome sex life. We are much more in sync. I feel more attractive so therefore I no longer have some of the "old tapes" in my head. They often say that when a couple's sex life is a problem, it is 90% of the relationship, when things are good, it is only 10%. Yup.....that's about how it is.

Our daughter is away at college, our son entering high school and has a busy active life. Ex-hub and I cherish our time together as a couple, so- this is not just about the kids. Truthfully, if my thinking about the kids was a dominating factor here, I would have never divorced in the first place. I am where I want to be as a whole woman.....looking to share her life with the best whole man she knows.

So, do I understand you correctly that, despite reading Dr Harley's writing and posting here, you divorced your H and pursued your affair?

Did you use the MB programme at all? Did you establish NC with OW? If so, how did the affair continue to the point that you left your H?

Having established NC, did you work with your H to rebuild your marriage? Did you work to meet each other's emotional needs - especially the four intimate needs (sex, conversation, physical affection and recreation)? Why did this fail, do you think?

How and why did you get in contact with OW again? Did you see doing so as wrong?

hmmmm....maybe now I am remembering why I stopped coming to this site. I see from your signature that your spouse cheated on you?

Let's see..yup.....went no contact.......yup, did marriage counseling.....yup.....it all sounded good .....and seemed good....til the crisis passed and he got complacent again. Real change takes months, years.......and ME, MYSELF, and I made the conscious selfish decision to stop trying....during our time when we were trying to rebuild....my dad died suddenly at 65...5 months later, my mom died suddenly at 61. NO excuses.....but at that time in my life I saw life as short....and I felt I deserved to be happy, admired, appreciated, desired...so MY SELFISH [censored] self reached out to OW...who still felt the same way and we were off.

I don't know how much more accountable and honest I can be. No blame game here. I believe people can change. and yes, I was unfaithful and yes, this was sheer infidelity. But my "affair" still saw the light of day and lasted for almost 10 years. Lots of first and second marriages don't last that long. I cheated in my marriage...but was faithful in my second relationship and knew enough this time to end it and not pursue something else beforehand. I have been with 2 people in 23 years. I am not a serial cheater and a good person........this my ex-husband knows.

I really appreciate the suggestions, policies, philosophy of this site and its founders.....but for folks who are looking to find concepts here (or anywhere) that will provide them with fool proof guarantees that if applied, their marriages will last and repair, I hate to burst your bubble- but humans are fallible and most people think with their emotions and not their heads......and no matter what we try to do or not do...we can't control anyone else but ourselves.

On that note.....I will probably use a little more self control here in terms of posting on this site.

sigh

My goodness - what is that supposed to mean?

Yes, my H had a long-term affair, as is stated in my signature for all to see. Why does that need questioning?

Seems to me that if you'd had just a little more (or a lot more) "guilt and shame" you might have STOPPED your affair 10 years ago and saved those around you a lot of pain. Such "guilt and shame" wouldn't have been "self-defeating" at all but rather a short-cut to where you find yourself today, back with your God-given husband where you belonged all along. Although YOU seemingly don't regret the last 10 years (which I still don't comprehend) I'm sure your husband, children and family sure wish you'd have behaved otherwise. A lesbian affair certainly wasn't their dream. To wear adultery and divorce on your sleeve like it's a gift that made you who you are today is to spit upon the people's lives you hurt and destroyed with your behavior.

You can't repent what you don't regret. If you did it and you're not sorry, what need is there to repent? Repent means to reconsider, to take back and if you wouldn't take back in your past, you are not truly repentant.

Look at it this way: The "re" in "repent" means thinking in past tense about the "pent" which is derived from "penance" which is to be sorry for or wish to take back. The very word contradicts your first post about "no regrets".

Point is...in certain situations ...such as improper sexual attractions to another person not your spouse..."Guilt and Shame" can be self-sustaining AND "shame and guilt" might just help a person obtain and express the gift of repentance were it to strike them upon the head [my hope for you].

Mr. Wondering

You sound really defensive here, and I don't know why you adopt that tone. You sound as if you are angry that you are being made to admit that you behaved cruelly to your H and kids, and OW's H and kids.

If that's how you feel, then I wonder what response you hoped to find when you posted your "lucky" story. Did you think that it would be seen as a love story here, one that had a romantic ending and worked out fine for everybody? Didn't you think that at least one person here would be appalled to read your joyous rendition of how you destroyed two families, despite having posted here and read Dr Harley's advice on how to overcome infidelity?

you are absolutely right......how foolish of me..I am a smart woman and should have recognized that this site is being visited by many unhappy people in unhappy marriages looking for help and support...

just like my ex husband and I were in 2000.....

poor judgement that I came here and posted about how happy we are today...

I will tell my ex that he should not forget the pain I caused him and the kids and all the family destruction etc

thanks for the reminder

yup- people tend to get defensive when they feel they are being attacked

and if u want to respond to my post that's fine for others to read because I won't see it

So when your H got complacent, you saw this as justification for you to cheat on him AGAIN, and this time take it further and break up your kids' home (and that of OW's kids). You did this despite reading on this board of the pain caused by infidelity to spouses, kids, the extended family...large numbers of innocent people - and despite seeing that pain first hand in your H and your own kids.

I pity your H and kids for what they will go through should you decide you "deserve to be happy, admired, appreciated and desired" again after a few years of marriage. I hope your H knows that the "good person" he is remarrying will hurt her own family and pursue her own selfish desires should he ever become "complacent" again.

"We can't control anybody but ourselves"...but it seems that you were not willing to control your behaviour and not be unfaithful AGAIN, despite seeing the pain it caused the first time round, and you were not able to control the choice to divorce, or the creation of a doomed affair relationship, nor of two broken families.

Thank you. I will do that.

It seems that you won't see what you wanted to see here.

Wait a minute this is a HAPPY story?????

So we should be linking this to all newly betrayed husband's encouraging them that 10 years from she'll be back and don't despair...your wayward wife has learned a valuable lesson in this and she won't likely cheat on her affair partner while she's gone because that's wrong.

Your affair lasting 10 years does not in any way make it special and to express otherwise is just mean and vulgar to do in the midst of victims of infidelity.

Mr. Wondering

Don't you mean you got complacent? And obviously you didn't go no contact.


You were "faithful" in your affair? How does that logic work? An affair is a shameful, vile relationship that leaves lots of destroyed lives in its path. The fact that you didn't wake up for 10 years does not speak well of you. An affair that lasted for 10 years is not something I would crow about. You might as well brag that you shot up heroin for 10 years. An affair is not a virtue, but a vice.

kk, I am happy that your affair is over, but your cavalier attitude about the selfish destruction of many lives is very alarming. What will happen in the future if your husband gets "complacent" again? Do you feel entitled to seek another affair at his expense and do this all over again to him? If you don't understand what you did wrong, then you are not likely to change your behavior.

What protection does your husband have from you in the future?

I'm not God so I can't KNOW your heart but I can plainly see a "change of attitude" is long overdue here. 10 years of wayward fogginess isn't overcome easily. Your husband and children (and you) deserve better. We can help you.

Mr. W

Shame and guilt are the friends of our conscience. They are our internal warning signals that we are in violation of our conscience. You should feel guilty about being bad. Ignoring those warning signs is like ignoring the smoke alarm when your house is on fire. Not too smart. People who do not have shame and guilt are typically sociopaths.

I don't get this. Why do posters show up here, determined to do whatever it takes to undermine the concepts of this site, puff out their chest to show how 'their' situation is different, and then turn tail and run the second their flimsy philosophy is questioned?

Anyway, kk, yes, I would say you ARE lucky. You're lucky the damage isn't worse than it could have been (although I certainly see a lot of red flags in your 'happyhappyhappy' posts, so that remains to be seen.) As it is, you damaged your marriage, your husband, your children, the OW, any family members who know, any friendships you had...but yeah, you were lucky. Someone could have been physically injured or something.

The thing you need to remember is that the final chapter of your adultery story has not yet been written.