Wife refused to communicate through the IM. The only communication we've had in months has been through my lawyer and GAL. I love that there is communication. I just don't want direct communication with her. I need it to be this way for ME.

I will make it clear to my lawyer and see where things go.

Its not unusual for waywards to refuse and to continue to try breaking Plan B. Scottys WH still passes messages through the kids. I have relatives of softlad trying to tell me stuff I dont need to hear.

He doesnt like it, poor bunny. Too. Bad.

Its not so much her refusal that bothers me, its that I almost feel as though the system is trying to force me to communicate directly with her.

I will make it clear to my lawyer my intentions and desires and just see where things go.

Get all of the material that you can that suggests that the two parties in a D don't communicate directly for at least 2 years, and that it is in the best interests of the children.

As much as MB makes sense to all of us reading here, and has become second nature, we need to remember that others don't understand it the way we do. When they see you saying that you don't want to directly communicate with your WS, they just think that you are playing games and that you don't have a valid reason for it. Show them that you most certainly DO have valid reasons. You can even tell them that an IM doesn't need to be permanent, but it is something that you will be doing now. Even explain that the IM is only going to be a filter, and still pass on all pertinent information.

It honestly boggles my mind that WSs seem to say so often that they don't want their BSs but they try so hard to keep communicating with the BS and refuse the IMs. What silly silly waywards.

Where can I find such information? Is there something here on the site and other places you know of that will support this?

I know that DrH has written about it. I also know that there are some other psychologists whom have also suggested it. I hope one of the vets who know better than I can point you in the right direction.

I am using my blackberry to post, and unfortunately, it limits what I can find. Sorry.

Please help. I'm looking for info to present in order to support my Plan b. Anyone know where to find some?

Reknowned psychologist and leading US expert on adultery and families, Dr. Willard Harley, author and founder of Marriage Builders, likens the trauma of an affair to rape. It is Dr. Harley, among other experts, who recommend ceasing direct communication with the adulterous spouse to lessen the emotional pain of witnessing the affair first hand.

Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr:

Quote: "The problem with a coninuation of contact is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the [wayward spouse] eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their wayward spouse back to them."


Dr. Deena Stacer, Ph.D, Founder and Director of the San Diego County High Conflict Intervention Program, recommends ceasing contact for a minimum of two years in order to protect the children:

Quote:In a breakup or divorce, with children, there may be high emotion and tension between the parents. This tension creates anxiety for the children as well as the parents. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, body language and in their parents behavior. To significantly reduce the amount of tension for all the family, the parents should follow two simple rules for the first two years, in order to control the communication and contact between the parents.

Number One: Eliminate all face-to-face communication between the parents, {including telephone contact} for a minimum of two years.

Number Two: all communication should be done in writing, using a memo format.

Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children.

Coparenting often fails, because it assumes that the parents can eventually get along. Our program assumes that with every interaction between the parents more anixety results creating less ability to agree of child sharing issues. If parents couldn't coparent while together, the gap now is wider between them since separatation and their anxiety level is increasing due to the ongoing court conflit.

Our program focuses the parents away from their feelings of failure to communicate and redirects their anger at each other to bonding more closely with their children instead.

Google the phrase

parallel parenting


refer to it as such

Well, it will all be over in the next few days. I sent reply to lawyer regarding "parallel parenting", etc. They stated the law does not operate with emotion, just facts. They said I am too emotional regarding the divorce and infidelity and said I need to let go and move on. The GAL will not entertain third-party communication. They stated I could sign the amended PO allowing email communication or just leave it.

They told me I can accept the property settlement giving her my car, freeing her of.any of my financial obligations and end it all now. I would have to accept the parenting situation as it is now and work on making it.better moving on forward.

If I don't accept, its another $300 upfront for mediation and $195/hr with a minimum of 3 hrs. Its an additional $2500 to them if mediation fails and the case goes to court.

Basically, lawyer, GAL, etc. are telling me to take things as they are or don't. That's my choice.

Seriously?
Parallel parenting takes the emotion out of the picture.
It is ideal for parents where one has attempted restraining orders against the other.

Can you sign the PO allowing email communication but give an email address that the IM will use to relay messages? (not volunteering that as the detail of said email contact?)

Very interesting.
Thanks, Reading.

Can you do email through an IM without making it real obvious? As in, set up a new email account that goes to to your IM and let your IM receive and send responses?

I had problems with my primary email account and ended up setting up a couple of new ones and blocking WXH on the old one. He is the only one who has that email address (well, I think he gave it to his mother). I set it up with the thought of having an IM, but ended up not feeling the need for it. When the last child is over 18 I will delete the account. He does not have my home phone number and I never answer when he calls my cell. It works for me.

So I'm going home (Texas) tomorrow for a well needed break. I may not have my day job when I return but I don't care. They told me on Monday that my time off request was denied due to holidays. I informed them that tickets were purchases and I would leave and not return until Tuesday. Oh well.

I haven't been home since last august with ww and DD. It'll be the first without ten since the emergency trip to see my sick grandfather bout 6 yrs ago. It feels kind weird and I'm not sure how I'll handle all the questions.

On Thursday, my lawyers office sent me a message stating it was my choice to either accept amending the PO or not and that they were amending at the request of the GAL to open lines of communication. They said communication is important for our daughter and that I should just let go and move on to do what's best for our daughter.

Today, I responded by saying that I was extremely disappointed they hadn't pursued getting PO dismissed based on ww's admittance to violating it repeatedly and the fact that its bogus to begin with. I told them that I felt I was being forced to directly communicate and that I decline the amendment based on it not being what's best for me OR DD. I stated that I have third party communication in place and that o would use that. I also told them I've made it clear to ww what it would take to directly communicate with me and to be a part of my life in the future. I told them I was not the one who created this barrier and that, while they may be used to adultery, this is my first experience and that it still is painful to deal with.

What do you guys think? Was this a good decision?

I vote you did well. You are communicating your wishes to your attorney.

You push parallel parenting as the plan.
Every time they mention GAL requesting co-parenting, tell them the GAL should study up on the parallel parenting concept and how it is in many ways healthier for children. Especially in high conflict situations.

ita

MSS,

I�m shaking my head at your thread. There comes a point where you have to start doing certain things that you need to do in order to win the custody you and DD deserve. This means that if the GAL is telling you that you need to communicate, then you need to play the game and say that you agree that you need to communicate regarding your DD.

What�s killing you with 50/50 is that you�re not presenting a willingness to play the game for custody.

Your marriage is over. Plan B is effective when you�re shielding yourself from an affair and to get your head clear and prepare you for divorce.

You are now divorcing. The ball is in play and you�re on the sidelines arguing about the rules while WW is cleaning your clock legally.

Time to wake up and get in and fight for custody.

That means that if a GAL is telling you that you need to communicate with your WW, you respond and say that you�re willing to work on communications for the sake of your DD.

There is a positive thing about your case. The judge doesn�t seem impressed with your WW�s shenanigans and that tells me that he�d likely be very generous in a custody decision.

Men who get custody or get significant time with their children are the ones who fight. They play the legal game.

Being inflexible about communications with WW about DD means that there is little motivation to give you any custody or change things.

Nobody is asking you to be friends with WW. The fact is that you don�t need to talk to her about anything you don�t want to, but you MUST start asserting yourself as a parent and demanding your rights be respected.

Do you think I got the custody I got by playing nice? I was a pain in the a$$ to my WXW. I asked for sole physical and legal custody.

Here�s your reality: You will not get time with your DD unless you fight for it. If a GAL tells you that you must learn to communicate, then you say that you need some help in this regard, but that you�re willing to take co-parenting classes if necessary.

There needs to be a serious shift in your thinking. WW is lost. The D is happening. You�re still moving along in this whole process with the hidden hope that she will wake up, end her affair, and come back to you.

Your legal fight will be expensive. It will be well worth it, however.

You should, at a MINIMUM, be getting a Wednesday night and every other weekend schedule with your DD.

That should be the minimum demand you have.

Exchanges can be done at her school in a before and after care program where you never have to interact with the WW in any way.

This is a different battle for men than it is for women. Mom biased courts tolerate crap from women a lot more than they do men. So if a BW wants to communicate through an IM, then the court looks on this as reasonable and justified because the BH is often an idiot a$$ who doesn�t care to be involved in the kids� lives. She already has custody so there really is nothing to fight for on that front.

You, on the other hand, have to prove to a courtroom of strangers that you�re a reasonable loving father who simply wants to be a presence in his daughter�s life. This means, that as much as it sucks, you present yourself to the court as a man who has accepted that there is a D, that co-parenting with the WW is necessary for your daughter�s sake, and that there is no good reason why you can�t have 50/50 custody.

That means that if you need to get your DD on your kung fu nights and you have to give up kung fu, then you give up pool and kung fu!

The advice you�re getting here is killing you legally. The marriage is over. The divorce is rolling. You need to secure your rights as a father and you have a judge that has already shown an irritation with your WW over her antics. That plays in your favor.

I�d get a message out to the GAL and your lawyer today that says this:

�I�ve reconsidered your advice and agree that DD needs for WW and I to work together for her. I will communicate when necessary with WW regarding any medical or school issues for DD if a joint decision needs to be made. I�m willing to take co-parenting classes so I can learn to communicate effectively in this situation. I love DD and want very much to be present in her life.�

Does this mean you become friends with WW? No. Does it mean you have long conversations about any of the things listed above? No. Most of your communications will be limited to email exchanges regarding DD.

I�ve been doing it for years. I have a 60/40 split with the WXW and would have gotten 50/50 if I had lived nearby. I got that because I fought. I got it because I didn�t lie down and give up. I got it because I put fighting for my kids as my highest priority.

The goal here isn�t to prove that WW is a bad mom. What you have isn�t strong. Not doing her hair doesn�t make her a bad mom. Unless you have proof she�s doing drugs or is abusive, then you have nothing.

The goal here is to show that you�re a good father. Custody fights aren�t about destroying the other parent, which is what they generally devolve into, so much as showing that you�re a good parent that would be a positive presence in the child�s life.

So get off the high horse. Do what you need to secure your custody. WW is lost. The marriage is over. Plan B didn�t work and Plan D is well underway.

Play the game to get that custody. Once you have your rights secured, then you can make it clear to the WW that you will communicate via email and only about medical or school issues. Make it clear that you won�t talk on the phone unless someone is about to die or there is blood on the floor.

That�s the guideline I was given and it works.

So wake up and start fighting the right way.

There are those here that will disagree with me about Plan B, but I remind them all that we�re talking about a man who doesn�t have custody fighting a mom-biased court system. If he had custody, then I�d say stick to Plan B. But you don�t have it. So I�m trying to advise you to follow your lawyer�s advice and play the game until your rights are secure.

Okay. Good points htlds.

You do what is best at this juncture and play along to get the most custody.

Then, in the future define your boundaries of contact.

Once you have a court order that secures your rights you can go as dark as you wish.

My ex tries to communicate with me all the time. I ignore her about half the time and only respond in short sentences while she writes essays.

All my communications are along these lines:

"Kids have x time off. Would like to meet you as X time or exchange X weekend for those days. Do you agree or have other suggestions?"

Or,

"Took DD to doc because of her cough. Doc gave her antibiotics. Do you want to come by and get the meds for the time she's with you or do you want me to send it with her to school?"

Done. All business. Nothing friendly.

I got lulled over time into being more amicable and friendly and learned that was a stupid way to deal with the WXW. So now I'm back to short and to the point and with no air of amicability or warmth.

That's what you need to do.

Now get an email out ASAP.

Tell the GAL and your lawyer that you are willing to settle if you get more time with DD, but otherwise will take it to the judge.

I looked at the offers my WXW made this way: If this is what she wants me to settle for, then I can't do any worse by asking a judge for more time.

So I did. And I got it. I didn't get everything I wanted, but she got NONE of what she wanted.

Start doing this smarter. You're losing legally and you're your own worst enemy, but nothing is lost unless you settle for it or a judge says so.

The GAL is not in your corner and you're not giving her any reason to be. Give her a reason to be by showing that you can be above the fray and are willing to communicate if necessary for the sake of your DD.