Do you see what you did by not agreeing to help her move out? And by not agreeing to be her handyman? You have ruined her fantasy and given her second thoughts. She is now trying to figure out ways to make this work so she can keep OM and you at the same time. All it takes is you getting the goods and you can kill the affair, though.

The nice thing is that she has spoken to Steve Harley and knows this can be turned around. Once the affair is killed, she will turn back to the hope Steve gave her.

Well I have not enabled her at all, not helping her in this. She can own this

As expected her flirtation with sanity and compassion lasted less than a day. I saw this AM, all kinds of info on rental properties she is looking at this week, she had it spread out in our office. So her BS sppech about not doing divorce for the kids was all that... BS. She was smokescreening me yesterday. Yes Melody I have freaking had it, lying conniving bi*ch she is. Talking about working it out and then backdooring me looking to move out, just like she always planned. I had agreed to $3000 in support and I am thinking of changing my amount to $2400, the legal minimum. I still feel like a chump bankrolling this, one dime above what the law says I should. I was trying to fair to the kids, I should left her no choice but to give them up and find a roomate and live somewhere else.

I wouldn't bankroll it at all. Why would you do that without a court order?

See, you need to just make it clear that you won't cooperate with any divorced schemes without a court battle. Just say it sweetly and then back OFF.

You need to BACK OFF because she is in a free fall right now. Her plans are crumbling under the spotlight of reality. Don't interfere when your opponent is self destructing.

Be sweet, be a soft place for landing and let her know you won't be funding anything.

And hire a PI!!! DAMMIT!!!

Well after some talking this afternoon we had an agreement. We agreed to have a trial separation. That we have too much bad blood here and too many issues. I am still hiring the PI. I was feeling pretty good about the trial thing, she agrees to counseling and agrees the separation is and should lead to reconciliation. So that is a huge leap forward. Ok I was all happy, I go up for lunch and asked her. So can we agree that dating is not a good idea during the separation. I expected a Yes I agree. Well I got a ..I can't promise that, that is the point here to try out our feelings, work them out, if we are supposed to be together. I could feel the anger boil up in me. She keep qualifying it, with "Well I can't see it right now, but who can say in year if do dinner with a guy". WOW, I mean WOW. I did something different and did not argue, did not lecture, just walked away and said..Ok I don�t agree but it is your life. Guys I am very negative on this trial separation, it does nothing but buys me some time and to work on the relationship. Better than her speeding towards a quickie divorce but the dating thing sticks in my craw as a guy. Do women just want to casually date guys and then shake hands or give a hug at the end of the night and just take the evening as it was, two friends getting together. You date because you eventually want a relationship right? What I am supposed to stand by and accept her dating and sit idly by as she determines if this mate or that mate is better than me. This is what people do when they are not serious and dating before marriage. My wife wants to do it while we are married. If I had a crystal ball, the way I feel right now, I think I MAYBE FILING soon, for my sanity. My wife has been so disappointing in this whole thing. I need the PI, pronto, because any snooping done after, she has plausible deniability, that we agreed she could date.

Are you smoking hoochie weed? You are using wayward logic today and have made a huge departure from reality.

Well, dating while married is called ADULTERY so I would caution against agreeing to that. And remind her that you can use adultery in a divorce settlement. I am not sure why you would agree to ADULTERY. I am personally averse to adultery, but that is just me.

Do you think its a good idea to role model adultery to children? In my experience as the child of an adulterer I can just tell you that it was very morally confusing. Like my cheater dad told me "ML, reality is what you make it!" "Nothing is black and white!" [except that statement of course... ]

Anyway, maybe she can teach her children to grow up to be little adulterers too? Does she want her children to be adulterers when they grow up? For me, that was not one of the aspirations I had for my son. My goal was for my son to grow into a decent, honorable man who is faithful to his wife.



A "separation" leads to "reconciliation?" Isn't that an oxymoron? That is like saying that driving to Omaha will take you to Florida. The fact is that "separation" leads to DIVORCE, not reconcilation. Reconciliation leads to reconciliation. A "trial separation" is a trial for DIVORCE, not reconciliation.

That must have been a good BONG you smoked today!! duuuuuuuuuuuuude.....

And another question, how will she be funding her new pad? Are you paying for all this? If so, does she have court order forcing you to do this?

It would be a HUGE MISTAKE to pay her any money because that is to contribute your own demise. When she leaves, she is leaving to pursue her affair. Don't finance her affair. She should have to pay for everything herself.

Did you hire the PI yet?

I have to in the state, pay support and alimony in a separation. Look Melody, it's the only card I have right now. She will move forward with the divorce, regardless of what I do , you do and anyone else. Look I brought her a long way in 6 weeks, she was not even talking reconciliation, she wanted out no discussion, now she is hopeful we may be at the right place in a while to get real and bury the resentments. Until the person with the resentments, decides themselves to let them go, forgive and open their hearts, no scheme, plan or manipulation will work. The Bible speaks on this constantly and I am way more comfortable on taking counsel from it, then strangers on the internet. I advise you read Dr. James Dobson's book, Love has to be Tough. May soften your stance and give you another perspective on things like instead defaulting to adultery and outing it as the solution for everything. That solution works in very specific scenarios. The Harley's method is good, but not the only tool to fixing marriages. I hate to sound like a broken record but you cannot force anyone to love you, the more pressure you exert on a spouse who wants to leave the more they want to flee. Its human nature to its desire for freedom. I am living proof, the more I pushed my wife, the more withdrawn she became. You may disagree, shake your head and throw up your hands but I am opening the cage door, letting her go. There is an old proverb ��If you love something let it go free. If it doesn't come back, you never had it. If it comes back, love it forever.�
I am under no illusions here, my wife is trying on a trial DIVORCE. But a trial divorce is better than real divorce. She gets a BF, rubs my nose in it and forces my hand. Well I have my answer then don�t I? I bought time nothing more, and time even the Harley's would agree time works wonders with the proper caring and loving encouragements, that can change hearts. I must insist if want to chime in this thread you try and be more mature here and not badger or insult me. If you insist I insist you leave this thread.

hume, I don't need to read James Dobsons Love Might be Tough. You know why? Because I read Dr Harley's Surviving an Affair and have saved my marriage. I would just point out that reading Dobson's book has not saved your marriage either. Your wife is moving out to pursue an affair and has even told you she intends on committing adultery.

But if you are ok with that, I am ok with that. It is your marriage, not mine. It is all the same to me. I have saved my marriage.

I wish you the best...

It is not your thread in that sense. It is on a public forum for others to read and learn as well.

You don't have to read Melody's posts if you don't want to. That would be your loss.

**edit**

moderator's note: please familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders materials before you post. Thank you.

hume, MelodyLane used to advocate that book on this site! You should go read some of her old posts, and see how she's changed!

Oh Lordie, the olden days when everything BUT the one program that really worked was recommended!! Love Must be Tough, Private Lies, Dances with Anger were the most recommended books ..............on Marriage Builders!

She is playing you like a fiddle, hume. And rubbing her hands together in glee to have you so neatly castrated just by throwing you a few crumbs of hope in order to keep you in line and doing her bidding. Watch how nasty she gets if you ever decide to stand up to her and hold your own ground.

Where did the $3000 figure come from? Was this something the two of you came up with, or have you filed a formal separation agreement with the court? Has the court ordered you to pay this?

I would also suggest you check into specific state laws concerning alimony during separation. Many states will disallow a spouse's request for alimony IF THEY ABANDON THEIR SPOUSE, OR IF THEY COMMIT ADULTERY. Your wife is at least planning the former, and I suspect she is guilty of the latter. Can you say what state you are in? I work with a lot of attorneys and can easily find this information for you.

I wouldn't give her a nickel without a court-ordered payment schedule.

I would also start documenting everything she says and does regarding this 'trial separation' ploy.

You need to stop agreeing to it! Tell her you DO NOT WANT A SEPARATION. Implore her to NOT ABANDON HER FAMILY! (USE THOSE WORDS.) Don't lift a box to help her move. Don't give her money to help her move. Remain calm and loving, but tell her you will not help her ABANDON YOU. (USE THOSE WORDS.)

If you haven't done so yet, get your butt on a PI NOW.

Well a little update to bump my thread up to top again. Been a few months since I posted and have gone through tons of changes. I moved out around Thanksgiving, got my own townhouse. Wife and I talked till our ears bled, I suspected adultery but that turned out not to be true. She is not dating now after we separated but spends � her time worried about money, the other half clutching the kids as a surrogate spouse. We are going to sign our separation agreement this week which will give us 2 years till we divorce. This was due to insurance and financial concerns. When I moved out all relationship talk ceased, she became for all intents and purposes my ex-wife. I was so miserable, it hurt, the separation from my family, the loneliness, the adjusting to living life alone. But you know what happened a few weeks ago, I woke up and the fog lifted and I began to feel better, much better. Like a weight off my shoulders, gone were the obsessive thoughts, the thoughts of worthlessness, helplessness, etc. I began to work through my grief. The pedestal my wife was on, began to crumble in my eyes, I was not going to allow her opinion of me devalue me as a human being. She had her reasons to want out, her hardened heart, her unfulfilled desire to live a life like 23 year old single girl, her not wanting to deal with our marriage issues. I stop self-flagellating.

I highly recommend a book I got, was a real saving grace. It's by Susan Anderson The Journey from Abandonment to Healing: Turn the End of a Relationship into the Beginning of a New Life. It gives you the reasons why you feel like you do when one spouse abandons the other and a concrete way to get yourself back. I know this is a MarriageBuilders forum and they encourage saving marriages at any cost but in my case my marriage was a millstone around my neck and was DOA for about 10 years now. I think it�s ironic that the dumper my wife is the one miserable and me the dumpee has found new purpose and hope down the road. I have reconnected with my faith, took up martial arts, lost 30lbs and even though I have my bad days the good days outnumber the bad. I am not interested in reconciliation right now. She was never contrite or owned any of our marriage issues. She remained stubborn to the very end and refused counseling. I have a good relationship with my kids and live 5 minutes from them. Wife threw a whole basket of lemons at me and well I am making copious lemonade.

Hi hume, I am glad you are doing ok. It sounds like it is working out for you.

I just wanted to correct one thing you said above. Marriage Builders does not advocate marriage at all cost. Never. They often advice separation and/or divorce when appropriate. You should check out our divorce forums. There is a great group over there that will give you excellent support.

Thanks again for checking in!

I'm curious, hume, about where you got this notion?