Thanks helpthelostdads for the advice, and you are right, I do NOT trust her. She knows this, and always replies that she does not trust me either. I stopped trying to argue this trust issue awhile back as it got nowhere and she accused me of stabbing her in the back with threats involving kids. we went in endless circles.

I am becoming much better at subject changing

I'd stop her when she starts with the crap of not trusting you. Remind her that you've done nothing. Remind her that she's the one who betrayed the trust in the worst way possible.

Don't back down.

Then change the subject.

If she pursues it or argues that you need to go, just make it clear, "I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying and the kids are staying. If you want to leave I can't stop you. I'd rather work on our marriage. Now lets talk about how we're going to decorate the kids rooms."

DITTO

Thanks for the advice. i will use this approach.

She also requested that we not discuss the deceased OM ever again. Is this good or bad?

We also agreed not to hurt each other any more and she has become much nicer to me the last few days. She actually came up and hugged me yesterday for no reason. That makes living with her easier of course, and makes it easier for me to make LB deposits.

But she is still in her words deadset that she needs us to seperate, find new loves, etc. and reiterated this ad nauseum today.

And is discussing him/ the EA a LB??

It is usually suggested you get a chance to ask all the questions you need to heal. She should provide you 100% honest answers. When that finishes, then the affair should never be brought up ever again.

Do you have unanswered questions? If yes, then let her know you want a chance to ask questions (put them in written context also). Once you get your answers, then you will never discuss this again. You need this to help you heal.

She is still in the mindset that there was no affair (her words), and this is a critical issue for me: she does not see the EA as an affair or as cheating on me. She is reluctant still to reveal things, I think she thinks I will use them against her if we go to court, or maybe she really downplays the emotional connection that developed and how that led her to her decision she was in love with this guy. It is frustrating.

In most states when there is a D usually an A does not effect the legal proceedings. Find out for sure then tell WW that what she tells can't be used.

Then tell WW that you will never be able to put the A behind you because the questions haunting you now will haunt you thirty years from now. So if WW wants you to heal and put this in the past then she needs to do some answerin'.

Have you called into the radio program? I would send Joyce Harley an email explaining the situation.

Then Dr. Harley will advise you on what you need to do next. It is free, and I bet will give you the answer you are seeking.

mbradio@marriagebuilders.com


She is still wayward, so my only advice now is to keep trying to meet all her needs without lovebusting. This will be tough. I suspect Plan B may be on the horizon.

Yes, she is still wayward. Even though the OM died, she wants to live seperately regardless since she feels no love for me and is hopeless it can be recreated.

I spoke with S.H. last week for the first time and he gave me an approach to persuade her to speak with him. Her call is tomorrow and I have a follow-up one afterwards. Should I write Joyce also do you think?

itistoughlove, thanks for the response. But if no A (OM dead, I also heard her say privately to a friend she has no other lovers), is plan B a response? It seems best to plan A and meet her needs as long as possible, or am I mistaken? I have been trying to meet her needs and avoid LBs now for 2 months. OM died end Sept, so NC for about 7 weeks. Things are better, meaning her WD has lessened alot, she is now nice to me most days, we spend family time together, we had one date day, etc. Blow ups do still happen though and she says she wants to leave at end of year after the holidays (but to where? no finances), no love possible, etc.

I mean, I realize this cannot go on forever, and the danger is that she could start another affair in a few months, but how long is too long? I heard Dr. Harley say once on the radio program for a man to man-up, be tough, and plan A for 2 years (he had plan A'd for 6 months at that point).

This AM we talked about an upcoming trip to the US for the holidays, she asked "do you want me to go?"

Me: "yes, it is a family trip. me and the kids are going, I hope you join us."

WW: "are you going to divorce me in the US?" She seemed upset by this, it came out of nowhere.

Me: "No, we are going on a family vacation. My intention is to continue working on the M, that has not changed."

WW: "OK. I have my call with S.H. this afternoon. Can you resend the e-mail? I lost it and can't seem to find it. I need to do those questionnaires."

Me: "ok, will resend." I think she might have read the website about Steve and MB and deleted the mail. But maybe not. Who knows.

WW:Looking emotional "Our summer vacation ruined everything, maybe this one will fix it?"

WW: sits down and starts crying. "If you are unsure this will work (MB), I don't know what to do. I just can't stop thinking about the bad things since our 1st DS was born 6 years ago.I don't know what to do."

Me: Hug her. "it's ok you're upset. We have to forget the past, and focus on now. Now is what will determine our future"

She then was nice to me the rest of morning and I took kids to school.

Thoughts?

I think that sounds wonderful and you plan A'd wonderfully with your responses. Good job! Is S.H. Steve Harley? If so, that is awesome!

Yes princessmeggy, SH is Steve Harley. She has agreed to a call with him.

That is great Blackhawk,

Just keep up the good work and she will soften and come around....SH will do wonders, using logic and give her things to think about that she probably hasn't....
hope it all goes well today..........

Thanks jessitaylor for the encouragement. And you are exactly right on the logic and new ways of thinking, this was his approach and it made sense to me, and my WW told me also he seemed to know what he was talking about, had a scientific approach, etc.

We have a long ways to go, so step by step. I am more hopeful and just gotta keep working the plan to the best of my ability.

An update, advice and analysis/feedback appreciated:

She had call with Steve. She said his ideas seemed logical and she seemed (dare I say it) open to working with him. He gave her some homework (EN and LB questionnaires and reading concepts), which she said she will do this week and she asked for our first joint call call to be in second part of this week. Ok, so far so good.

On Friday (after her call) we had a pretty good day, friendly and all. I was home for the holiday. But Saturday and Sunday we had friends over, spent time with kids, and she became meaner and meaner to me as the week-end wore on. I am deep in plan A, try continuously to meet her ENs and do things for her, no LBs, but she gets mad when I try to do things for her, and the more I do, the madder and less civil she seems to get. It is frustrating.

This culminates in her going to a play with some friends last night (this is legit, I snooped) and she was looking very nice, I compliment her, even say she is turning me on sexually, which she did not on the surface seem to take well. Then she says "who knows, maybe I'll meet a new acquantaince."

Wow, that hurt. I said "that hurt my feelings that you would say that." She got quiet and said: "I'm sorry, it was just a joke." Then she left for the play while I babysat our kids. When she got back, she was again mean to me.

Is this normal rollercoaster behavior?

We spent 4 days more or less together, so is this a normal pullback? Should I pullback also?

or is she sliding back into withdrawal (or did she ever leave that state to conflict?)?