Things have continued to go slowly down hill. My WS is still (albiet much less often), lying, stealing, drinking, taking meds that I told her I would not tolerate. Ultimately I had to make her and the OC (twins) move out. They moved in with her mom Sunday night. I think I make her very unhappy and I know that she has made me pretty unhappy too. In many ways, I think that it may be best that we just figure out how to end it all gracefully. I think she may end up happier in the long run. I think I will end up happier in the long run. The biggest problem at first was that she was so hell bent on keeping us together at any cost that it was hard to even separate. It is still hard and she still says she wants to work it out, but she is adjusting to the idea of the separation and that is a big step. Now that she is starting to be more accepting of this, I find myself in a rather unexpected and uncomfortable position. I am still feeling clingy. I am trying very hard not to let on. I am just still consumed with what she is and is not doing. I still want to check her phone records, emails, facebook etc. I don't know how to stop. And I still want to email her and call her all of the time too. I am successfully fighting the urge to call or email her except when necessary, but i spend an unhealthy amount of time checking to see if she has emailed me and wondering if/when she will and what she is doing, who she is talking to, etc. On one hand I want her to figure out that she can be ok without me. That she can be happy without having to be married to me. But on the other hand, I obsess over what she is doing, who she is talking to, etc, etc... Its like my mind knows what is going to be best in the long run, but its so uncomfortable that my emotions are rebelling against my brain. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to make this easier on me (so I don't cave in) and easier on her, so that she doesn't breakdown?

Thanks,
Rich_Confused

RC,

Is there anything I can do to make this easier on me (so I don't cave in) and easier on her, so that she doesn't breakdown?

Did you get child support from the OM, long term this is very important and will really help to separate her from you. Also you might consider making the OM legal father, so there are fewer connections back to you.

God Bless
Gamma.

The "albiet much less often" comment gives me pause. It should wave like a in your eyes too !
Telling yourself this sort of qualifier gives you permission to continue all the unhealthy obsessive behaviors that you admit you're doing.

Your wife is lying, stealing, drinking, medicating. Period.
Really, this point needs to be 100% clear in how you look at her.


You must have clear boundaries about which exact behaviors you will not permit in your home. If your wife choses to violate your boundaries, you then know that you do not come first, but behind those other choices.

She's a big grown up girl.
She knows how to stop doing bad things. She choses not to.



You know how to stop. You choose other behaviors.
Volunteer.
Get to the gym.
Call a friend.
Do yard work.
Build something.
Work on your car.
Read to old people.
*BLOCK YOUR WIFE AS A FB FRIEND*



Write a Plan B letter.
Go to Plan B.
Go DARK PLAN B.

*** HOW TO PLAN B *** <~~~ CLICK THIS LINK

or ..... go crazy (your current plan)

Thanks for the response... Those are good points. No, haven't done either. We have a 15 year old son, whom we are not ready to tell about what all she has done and how the babies are not mine. He knows about her drinking and the pills and such, but not the other. I feel like he has been through a lot and I just don't think he can handle finding out about that right now. The OM is a deadbeat. He doesn't have a car. He has a job that he works just enough to half way support himself. I feel like if we try to get child support from him, we are not actually going to get anything out of it and it will become very obvious to all of our family, including our son what has happened and that the twins aren't mine. I feel like it would cause a lot of problems and it wouldnt actually result in any financial support. Also, up until recently we had planned on trying to work this out and stay together. While we are transitioning to, at least a 'We need to figure out if we should stay together or not', ending the marriage is not a foregone conclusion and if we did end up staying together, then legally challenging paternity would end up with him having the option (even if he couldnt or wouldnt excersize it) to have shared custody or visitation. It would also possibly result in a loss of benefits. I'm not sure if I could legally keep them on my medical insurance if they are legally not my children? I guess I need to find out about that one. Perhaps as long as we do remain married they could remain on my insurance, despite legal paternity. But either way, it seems like a potentially risky move for such a small gain. I probably need to talk to an attorney either way to find out... I hope a consultation isn't expensive... I really can't afford it. In any case, thanks again for the comment. It's given me something to think about.

Regards,
Rich

Is your 15yoDS disabled in some way?
Emotionally?
Intellectually?
Socially?

What exact prescription drugs does your wife abuse?
Has she ever driven under the influence?
What is/was she stealing?

Pepperband,

Thanks for your reply. You've made some great points. I absolutely recognize that she continues to engage in unacceptably behavior. I just don't want to make it sound like she is making this easy by doing these things all the time. It doesnt change the fact that she is still doing them and that is why I made her move out. But I see your point and I need to be careful about how I view her and her behavior. Any unacceptable behavior is still "unacceptable".

I have established clear boundaries, she viloated them, she has had to move out and understands that she will not move back in until and unless we both agree AND I know that she is not continuing to violate those boundaries.

Getting me new behaviors? I know this probably sounds stupid, but that was so obvious as it relates to her. "You need to find new, healthy activities to fill your time." is something I have said to her plenty of times in the past... I just somehow didn't see the application for me. But it is clearly what I need to do. Thank you, I will start doing that.

Plan B is something I have seen reference to, but have no idea what it is beyond that. It sounds like something that I need to read up on, so I will...

Thank you again,
Rich

Pepperband,

No, he is not disabled in any way. He has been through a lot in dealing with her drug and alcohol abuse. He is emotionally troubled over what has been going on, but not to the point of a disability or anything more than what any child might go through in a similar situation. He is socially akward, kind of keeps to himself a lot, but he has been breaking out of that the last year and is starting to get more social, again, nothing that is a disability or abnormal.

She has abused alcohol, illegal drugs such as marijuana, and prescription drugs such as benzos (nerve pills), Opiates (pain meds) and Amphetamines (speed).

Yes, she has driven under the influence. Stealing has been as a way to get money, sometimes petty theft from stores so that she could use the money I had given her for the items and other times just taking money from my wallet, etc. sometimes just so she could have pocket money, but usually so that she could buy alcohol/etc...

Rich, can you clarify what kind of relationship you want with the OC/twins? Do you want to be their father (i.e., adopt them), or would you rather cut ties and only keep your DS? Is OM even involved at all in their lives?

If we knew where you were at emotionally with the twins, we may be able to offer advice on how to handle CS/dealing with OM. If your marriage had a good chance, I would strongly suggest keeping OM out, but if the marriage is heading towards divorce, you may not want to raise the twins as your own. It's a tough decision. Ultimately, you're not bad for either decision, but with things moving toward divorce, you need to decide soon if you want to release your rights or keep them.

I'm so sorry to hear your WW hasn't taken change seriously. Separation may be the last resort to help her change for the better, but if not, trust that this will be a fresh start for you both and that you can meet a faithful woman who will put you first--where a spouse should always be.

Rich, this is the best thing for you all. There is no hope as long as she continues to drink and drug. Marital recovery is hopeless. She is extremely destructive and will bring you down with her if you allow it. The best thing for you both is to be separated. In fact, I would strongly suggest you file for divorce to get legal protection. The divorce will take several months and in that time, if she cleans herself up, you can consider giving her another chance. I am sorry to be so bleak but the odds of her sobering up are very slim, about 10%. And if she doesn't sober up, you will be better off without her.


Plan B is a completely dark separation [not even phone calls or emails] that is initiated by a letter. In the letter you would tell her what your conditions for return are and tell her she cannot contact you for any reason other than an emergency. You would also set up an intermediary who would agree to only pass on pertinent information regarding visitation and finances. And I would not suggest giving her any money at all. She needs to see and feel what a divorce will feel like.

Thanks wanthealing,

Good points as well. I guess it would help you all to know... heck it would help me to know... But seriously, I am torn. If this had all come out before their birth (and even as recently as a couple of months ago), my view was if we did not remain married then I did not want to be their father, help raise them, etc.

Btw, DS does live with me, don't think I mentioned that before. She doesnt work and the OC twins are with her, but DS goes to high school and will remain with me.

Back to the twins. I can feel within me a shift starting to happen. I have recently started considering keeping legal paternity as it is and raising them as their father even if we divorced. But I just don't know. I am not committed to that, but before it was not even a thought. I struggle with this one a lot. If the OM wasn't such a deadbeat POS, then I would probably want to cut ties and walk, but I don't want them to suffer because he is a POS and I cut and walk. It is more than that of course. I am starting to get more attached to them and I am starting to get over the pain of thinking about the affair and the OM everytime I look at them. It can still be painful to look at them when those thoughts do come up, but its not as often and will likely continue to diminish.

Thus far the OM has been out of the picture. There has been no contact (though she still hasn't sent him a NC letter). I did not push the issue lately because once I knew we would be separating I felt like if she wanted to consider him then he can have her and she can have him. I didnt tell her that, I left it up to her to do. She knew I wanted her to send him a NC letter but she hadn't done it yet. I agree that if we do still try to work it out, I don't want him in the picture at all, he can add nothing of value to their lives or ours as far as I am concerned, but has already and still has the potential to cause pain. As you said, if we do go down the road to divorce, then I just don't know. I wish I had stronger feelings one way or the other. But I am torn apart over them. Yes, I agree, I need to get off my rear and make some tough decisions...

Thanks for your kindness...

Regards,
Rich

Rich, I just want you to realize that she will get worse, not better. Addicts either a) get sober, b) die or c) get worse. We don't stay the same, we get worse. So, what you see now will worsen as time goes on. She may be at the freefall stage now.

I am not trying to be Debbie downer here, but you need to know the facts about addicts.

Are they in danger under her care? (lack of care)
Is she nursing?
Has she ever been arrested or had a DUI?

MelodyLane,

Thank you.

That is difficult to hear. But you were upfront and honest with me in previous posts and you were correct. I appreciate your being direct and I have no reason to doubt that you are correct now. I will give this some serious thought.

As for Plan B... OH... I have been moving in that direction unofficially, limiting calls and emails more and more. Its only been a few days, but we didn't speak on the phone or via email at all yesterday.

I have been picking up one of the twins one night and then the other the next night and keeping them. The boy has some serious stomach problems and can be VERY demanding, it is virtually impossible to take care of both of them at the same time alone for long periods of time and her mothers work schedule does not permit her to help with the kids on some nights. I didn't have either of them last night so there was no contact at all. I haven't heard from her yet today, but I planned on keeping him tonight, so that she could go to her AA meeting.

Using an Intermediary could be problematic since I assume it really needs to be a unbiased third party, which means paying someone. I may not be a deadbeat like the OM, but for right now I am pretty close to scraping by. No savings and no real money left after bills, expenses... I think now that she is out that will start to improve.

Not giving her any money could also a problem. Are you saying I should wipe my hands of any support or only give her the things she needs and not the money to buy them herself? Right now what I had agreed to was I buy all of the stuff for the babies (formula, diapers, etc) and bring them to her when I'm bringing the kids back each week. And I give her a fixed amount (which is a little less than what will meet her needs. I use the term needs a little loosely. But eitherway, I'm not giving her money that she can spend to have a good time unless she does without food, or personal care items. And no matter what she does, the babies will have what they need. The alternative would be I give her mother the money, but then her mom will probably just hand it straight over to her anyway.

Thanks,
Rich

MelodyLane,

Thanks again, you mentioned that, more or less, before. It helps to hear it a few times. I need it to sink in...

Thanks,
Rich

Pepperband,


I'm not sure how to answer that one. Can you ever say that any child under the care of any alcoholic/drug addict is not in any danger? I don't believe they are right now. If she doesn't sober up, and consequently she does get worse (like MelodyLane indicated), then I'm sure that will change. And her mother or I will have to step in and do something for the saftey of the children. But for now, I do not feel they are.

She is not nursing, they are on store bought formula.

She has never been arrested nor ever had a DUI.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich,

Did you consider trying to get the OCs adopted out?

That's what happened to me, and while I can say that the process was painful to all parties, except my legal father, I think it was best in the long run.

I also think you need to tell your son what is going on, not only for his sake, but for your sake as well. Having to carry around a huge secret for the rest of your life is a killer.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma,

I talked to her about that one time. She made it clear that as much as she wanted to keep us together, that if I made her choose to either give them up or give me up that she would NOT give them up. I can't fault her for that. She loves them very dearly and I honestly think that as hard as it is to take care of them when his stomach is hurting, that they are the only thing really holding her up and keeping her as grounded as she has been. I believe she would be absolutely out of control right now.

I agree and I have told my WS that DS will be told as will the OC. I think it would hurt him (DS) too much right now. But I expect that within the next year it will come to a point where I sit him down and tell him what happened. As far as the OC, if I do continue to raise them as their father, I don't want them to find out one day when they are teenagers that I have been lying to them their whole lives. I'm not sure when it makes sense to tell a child about their biological paternity. Obviously too soon doesn't make sense. But I think waiting too long is probably worse than telling them too early.

Does anyone feel strongly about me not telling my 15 year old DS about the affair/paternity of the OC twins? I mean if I am screwing up, then I want to know. But if its (as I suspect it is) more of a situation by situation thing, then I really believe that it will do him more harm that good right now and that with a little more time to adjust to things it will be much easier on him when he finds out.

Thanks,
Rich

The thing I would have a problem with is you thinking that you are obligated to support these children because their biological father is a _______. I think you need to think really seriously about how much money you are going to be paying out over the next 18 years (and possibly beyond that) and the effect it will have on your life and also the effect it will have on your son. The OM can be forced to get work, or go to jail for non-payment of support, and your potentially STBX will have to work also, to pay for the children that they created.

Think of all the uses for that money, supporting your son while he is in college, saving for your retirement, or getting remarried. Can you accomplish that while you're paying out 40+% of your pre-tax income for kids that are not yours? Why would you want to mortgage your life for the next 18 years? I understand you are a compassionate man, but compassion that will cost your own family is, at least to me, senseless.

In the future, if you want to give your ex-wife money out of your own volition there's nothing to stop you from doing so. If you want to be charitable and help those children, you can do so at a rate and frequency of your own choosing. Don't let the state get its foot into the door of your life, you'll regret it for decades to come. What would happen if, God forbid, you lose your job? Do you think you can just stop paying the support? They put unemployed guys in jail for that and keep the arrearage balance going up while you can't work because you are incarcerated for thirty days. And once you get out do you think that anyone is going to hire you with a criminal record?

Sure that may be a worst case scenario, but it is being played out across this country. Don't let misplaced concern or compassion ruin your life. Like I said, you want to help, you can, just don't let the state MAKE you do it.

Rich, I would seriously consider Americajins' post. File for divorce now. This is not going to work out and the longer you are around those babies, the harder it is going to be to detach. [if you decide to not father them, that is] She needs to find a way to support them even if it means going on welfare while living with her mother.

There is nothing here to work with. And while I do mean she will get worse in the future, she is getting worse NOW. And before long she will go into a freefall. You and your son don't need to be around for that. Get untangled from her. It will be the best thing for HER........and for you and your son.

As long as you remain married to her, you take a great risk of any legal culpability she creates. That is all she is, a legal burden.

You cannot save this woman, Rich. She is gone. There is nothing here to save.