How she made you feel was "in love." If you were addicted to her, then that's how she made you feel.

If you intend to use this program to recover your marriage, then you best start learning the lessons of this program. Basic lesson number one is the Love Bank. If you are claiming that you can be addicted to someone without them being past the romantic love threshold in their account in your love bank, then you are denying how the Love Bank works. And if the Love Bank doesn't work, then you might as well give up now.


I think you are a liar who is trying very hard to continue to think highly of himself.

I think if you'd let yourself be a little more honest to other people, you'd feel better about yourself.

Again -- you're the liar, here, and the rest of us have been studying people just like you for 2 or 10+ years. We know the answers, here. Don't believe yourself when you tell yourself what the truth is.

I'll give you a little tip if you're serious about asking for help. Stop calling this broad by her given name. If Amy reads your thread, the mere sight of that homewrecker's name will trigger her. The sight of her name will also trigger YOU.

I occasionally have to deal with clients who have the same name as the OW in my sitch. It's almost three years past my D-Day, and I still get a little jolt when I see that damned name.

I've fixed your last post for you, above.

You could also call her POSOW. Or Skank. Or even just OW. There are many apt terms that can be used for a woman who has no qualms about rutting with a married man. But don't call her by her given name - call her by the name she's earned. (Just not too colorful - you'll be censored. )

You have a lot of nerve speaking positively about this woman anywhere. Would you say this to Amy's face?


There is no way to communicate to you how abominably offensive it is for you to say this. Any decent person will feel like retching hearing you say these two sentences together. I do. I cannot imagine the pain and grief it would cause Amy to hear it.

God help her.

You need to get straight today and give your wife a six month track record of perfection. Not dicker around for six months.

This stuff has GOT TO STOP.

I hope your wife has some serious antidepressants and supporting people in her life. And if you ever say anything like this again, I hope she is able to get so far away from you you never hear of her again.

If you have a shred of decency in you. Any ounce of being a worthwhile man in you. Any redeeming quality in you at all. You will not post one word in your own defense about this. Not one word about what you really meant to say, how it's just a metaphor, or whatever. It is monstrously offensive.

This is way beyond wrong.

Aw, come on, markos, it had to be autocorrect. Surely he meant to say that Michelle was a homewrecking ho.

I totally agree. It would sicken me if my H likened his OW to anything remotely good.

I have other visuals and words that would be ever so much better to describe vile, stinking, unsanitary women who crawl in the mud with another woman's husband. Sadly, you'd never see them if I tried to post them because the moderators would be all over it, editing them out.

This is about the best I can do, I'm afraid:

maritalbliss, it would sicken you even if it wasn't intentional, wouldn't it? It would sicken you even if your husband was trying to use it to mean something else, or making an analogy, or a metaphor, or trying to make a point, or something like that, and it just came out wrong. Am I right on that?

I think Schlag should apologize to every decent person on this site. I wish I knew how to communicate to him just how offensive this statement was.

I am not just beating on you, Schlag. I am trying to help you become the man you said you wanted to become. You may get all upset with me because looking at your own character is not comfortable, but if you'll put that aside, control yourself, and actually look at the way you talk, you'll see something that you can actually IMPROVE.

Here is some reading material which you should not miss:

Ouch? No, no, let me explain

Schlag are you responsible for the break-up of your POSOW's marriage?

What part did you play in her divorce?

According to POSOW's ex-husband, none. He suspected three other affairs but not ours. I was the only man to confess to him.

OK thanks. I apologize to everyone for calling POSOW whore by her given name. I apologize especially to Amy when she reads this.

Thank you, markos. This is what I am asking for on my journey. I am not asking for people to coddle me or be polite to me, I'm asking for you to help me. This helps me and I appreciate it.

Schlag - what did you know about the break-up of her marriage before you spoke to her xBH?

Do you believe you had an involvement in the break-up of her marriage?

What did you discuss with her at the time of your "I love yous"?

How is Amy doing? She has not posted and I want to make sure she is ok. Ask her to come and update us on her thread please.

When an alcoholic takes a drink or an overeater eats a big piece of cake, he enjoys it at the time and it makes him feel good. then, afterward, he feels awful about it and hates himself for indulging. Did he love the drink or the cake because of how it made him feel? It made him feel both good and awful.

Eric,

Everyone here is trying to help in their own way. I would ask that you offer charity to them if you feel they are being rough on you. They are here because they care. All of us are. We all have our different styles and approaches. Take them all for what they are worth and don't let them offend you. Focus on seeing what's in the post if the particular words of it are bothering you...

Now, as to your post...

Here's how love may be defined:

as a noun:
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
5. used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or the like): Would you like to see a movie, love?

MB speaks of love as a combination or any of these things. You may or may not have felt any of these for OW.

If you have felt it as #1, 2, or 3, then the definition of love does apply. It is what it is.

Love as a verb is a bit different. MB talks about love as a verb in terms of being the recipient or giver of that love. It speaks more of the feelings brought forth by the actions than what the actions themselves really are. When people receive attention and allow someone to meet their EN's, they "feel" love. Rather what they feel are other feelings perceived as love. When they return those same feelings however, it is returning love.

What does all this mean? It means that if you are defining love as a thing, a noun, then yes, there was love there in the strictest sense.

Now... I prefer the biblical definition of love... I want to encourage you in regards to reading to read the MB stuff and do not neglect the Scriptures. They are far far more important than MB (MB is taken from the Scriptures, but does not hold the same weight or authority as Scriptures in my belief. It is a good scripturally based program.).

Now the Bible calls you to love a bit differently than you have in the past. I am moving forward here from what was (the imperfect, flawed and corruptible love that you had shown to Amy and OW in the past) and I want to encourage you to press forward towards this type of love:

Again, please forgive the length of the post, but just some things to think on here.


The Joy of a Godly Husband

Theme: The Husband who Loves his wife as Christ Loves the Church not only glorifies God, but honors her as well.

Eph 5:25-33 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, (26) that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, (27) so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. (28) In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. (29) For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, (30) because we are members of his body. (31) "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." (32) This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. (33) However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

In 1989, Freddy Curci, and his band Sheriff had a number one hit (4 years after the band broke up):
Listen to the words of this song:
I never needed love like I need you And I never lived for nobody, but I live for you
Oooh, babe, lost in love is what I feel when I'm with you

Maybe it's the way you touch me with the warmth of a sun.. Maybe it's the way you smile, I come all undone
Oooh, babe, lost in love is that I feel when I'm with you

Baby, oh I get chills when I'm with you
Baby, my world stands still when I'm with you
When I'm with you

I never cared for nobody like I care for you And I never wanted to share the things I want to share with you
Oooh, babe, lost in love is what I feel when I'm with you

This song was a number one hit, written by the keyboard player to the girl that would become his wife 2 years later. It�s a nice, powerful, romantic song� But it�s lacking something� It�s lacking the biblical focus of what a successful godly marriage needs.

This song is founded on feeling, on how he feels,What this girl does for him.Ephesians 5 contrasts this with what genuine biblical love looks like between a husband and a wife. Paul gives us 3 things about marriage in regards to how the husband is supposed to view marriage, love and Christ.


1. The Love of Christ: (25) Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, (26) that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,

a. What is love? To be well pleased or contented with, Agapao, not phileo or eros
� The verb� what�s it do? Describes action.
� Love is the grounds for the husband�s headship.
� As Christ loved the church (the bride), so the husband loves the church. Paul�s phrase here lifts the responsibility of the man to love his wife to the highest plane�
� Look at I. Corinthians 13�
4-7 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant (5) or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; (6) it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. (7) Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

� Christ has shown us an active love. More than just feeling, biblical love is action, It sets the bar for the marriage�
� Love is giving one�s self up: sacrifice, to surrender to. It is the ultimate self-sacrifice.
� Here is a grand rule, according to which every husband is called to act: Love your wife as Christ loved the Church. But how did Christ love the Church? He gave himself for it - he laid down his life for it. So then husbands should, if necessary, lay down their lives for their wives:
ii. and there is more implied in the words than mere protection and support; as Christ gave himself for the Church to save it, so husbands should labor to promote the salvation of their wives, and their constant edification in righteousness.
v. Christ Gave: Literally surrendered.. This means we lay aside our own preferences for our wives. Not that we shouldn't strive for agreement on things, but what I mean is this: The freedoms and choices we have before marriage are no longer ours to pursue after marriage. We sacrifice and give things up in order to enter into an exclusive relationship with our spouse. Christ�s own conduct should serve as our example:
Php 2:6-8 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, (7) but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. (8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

vii. Christ�s life of humility, of surrendering himself is one which we should model for our wives and children.
viii. The work of the Shepherd is one of humility, we may not rule our homes in terror, but in humility and love.
� Husband, do you love your wives? Do you lay your life down for her? Do you love them and care for them? Do you lay your life down for them? Are you well pleased with your spouse, knowing that she is the bride of Christ and has been placed here by Christ for you to nurture and care for her?

b. Sanctification through cleansing by washing of water with the word. Paul has baptism in mind as he talks about the joy os being a godly husband, The idea is that the husband has to have his wife�s spiritual well being at heart as much as her physical, if not more. Care for the soul of the wife, the bride, is paramount to Paul as he addresses the Ephesians. The wife, the bride, is to be sanctified, made holy, set apart by being washed with the word. In the New Testament the bride passed through a purifying bath before marriage, We see this parallel in Scripture with baptism. The bride is marked, set apart through being cleansed by the word. True love for our wives is seen in how we wash them with Christ�s Word. True care for the flock comes through preaching Christ. Bathe your wife in the word! Love her, care for her, treasure her by taking care of her soul as Christ cares for yours!!

Do so for this purpose:

2. The Call to Husbands: (27) so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish(28) In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

� Presented in splendor: glorious, gorgeous:
� Decked out! Dressed to the nines�
� Remember your wedding day? There was no one on earth more beautiful than your wife, right? On that final day when Christ returns, let us stand before him glorious, gorgeous. In splendor Without spot or wrinkle
� Christ wants a bride that is pure. Not a pock mark, no scars, no imperfections.
� Paul is using this idea of one who�s skin is perfect, one who is beautiful when presented to the bride groom, That there will not be any such thing as an imperfection in the bride as she presents herself to her groom.

� This is the idea that Paul is presenting us with, but more�
� To be holy... Christ wants a bride set apart, He is setting apart his bride. So too should husbands desire to set their wives apart.
� Our wives should hold a place of honor with us, We should not consider them a common thing, Christ has given them specially for us to care for. Do you look at your wife and think �there are many noble women, but you surpass them all�?

3. The Two-Fold Purpose: (29) For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, (30) because we are members of his body. (31) "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." (32) This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. (33) However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

a. No one ever hated his own flesh, Every man loves himself, We care for ourselves, We nourish and cherish our own flesh... In this same way, Christ nourishes us and cherishes us. marraige between a husband and wife is seen in the divine reflection between marriage and Christ and the church. Because we love our wives, We should Nourish her:

o Cherish (thalpei). Primarily it means to warm, to foster with tender care.
� Because woman came from man, because in marriage we become one with our spouse, we should love and care for her above all other things
� Do you love your work more than your wife?
� Do you love your �things� more than your wife?
� Or maybe your food? Money? Clothes?
� Maybe your kids or friends?
� What are your idols? What have you placed above your wife?
� By virtue of our being married to Christ, you could say that we are �one flesh� with him� Our marriage to our wives pictures our marriage to Christ!
� Why is this picture given for marriage? Because of the intimacy of marriage. Christ�s love for us is not some general love for his creation, It�s a love for His own people� He knows us intimately!!!
� How are you known to your wife and kids in your marriage?
� How are you known to your friends?
� Most importantly, how are you known by Christ in your marriage?

YES. Case closed. So cut the bullsh**. Your wife asked if you loved the OW. The answer is yes. NEXT!

Amy is doing as well as can be expected. She has been home at her mom's since saturday and will return this saturday. She is watching my thread.

About 6 months after the PA ended, she told me that they were separated / divorcing. The divorce wasn't confirmed until I talked to the ex husband.

I don't know if I had any involvement in the breakup of their marriage. She never told me that I did and he never knew about the affair until I told him. She said it was because of how he treated her.

I NEVER told her or promised her that I wanted to make a life with her. Because I didn't.

These really are the correct answers. You can waste days or even months trying to decide if these are really the correct answers or not. But you only have six months, and that is not as much time as you think, and you're not making much headway.

Schlag, the polygraph said that you were lying when you said that you did not talk about leaving Amy for the other woman.

So obviously, in some form, you talked about leaving Amy for the other woman.

You can quibble over what exact wordings you did or did not use or what you do or don't remember or whether you are lying to yourself or whatever,

BUT THAT'S WHAT LIARS DO.

If I read you right, you are here because you want to quit being a liar. Is that correct?

So stop doing what liars do.

Do what men of high character do. Admit your mistake and try to make up for it.

Thanks for that post, CV. This dying to self is the spiritual side of the work I have ahead. I have been utterly selfish in my behavior in the first 12 years of our marriage. Two years ago when I became aware of what I needed to do, I thought I was saved. I confessed my sin but I didn't get to the second part of salvation - renouncing sin and living by the spirit as a slave to righteousness instead of as a slave to sin. I read Romans every morning now to start my day reminding myself that I live as a slave to righteousness.

I am ready to die to self and put Amy first and love her completely and lay down my life for her.

I pray every day that she will see it in me.

I have admitted that mistake to Amy - that I talked about it at some level because I remember joking to POSOW about how we would have three boys and three girls like the brady bunch. I told her that way before the polygraph. That's why I asked for the question to be changed to "did you tell the OW that you would leave amy for her?" - but I still failed even though I never told her I'd leave Amy for her.

I recognize that I could have told her without actually telling her and that was a mistake. Obviously you all can attest that I need to be way more careful with my words.