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Hello everyone,
I have been reading many posts on this site over the past year or so and have found great advice, resources and encouragement. I'm hoping for specific advice for my situation as I prepare to fight for my marriage. I would be happy to provide more detailed background, but the short version is:
I discovered my husband's second affair just this past week. He had had a first affair about seven years ago. We briefly dealt with it then, he was remorseful, and he immediately severed all contact with OW. Clearly, though, we did not really rebuild anything. We didn't put in the effort. I own my full share of this mistake.
His most recent, second affair is different. He doesn't seem remorseful. He seems entitled. I believe he may love this woman. He told me they were just friends but I have gathered evidence to the contrary and plan to present it to him tomorrow when he gets back into town. He did say to me last week that he spoke with her and that "she wants me to be happy and says that it's best if we no longer contact each other." I think he got dumped.
I want to put together a plan now. Please, please help.
BW: 49 WH: 41 Married 18 years, together 19 His first marriage; my second One daughter: 15 First affair: about seven years ago Second affair D-day: 11/16/11 Status: Married, living together
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RallySquirrel, sorry you've had occasion to make your way to this site, but welcome to MarriageBuilders.
Have you exposed the affair to people whose esteem matters to him? You might want to consider going to them with your evidence first, before going to your husband. Affairs often don't survive the light of day.
Is the other woman married? How did they meet one another?
Me: FWH, 50 My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold DD23, DS19 EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09 Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009 Married 25 years & counting. Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband. "I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol "Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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He did say to me last week that he spoke with her and that "she wants me to be happy and says that it's best if we no longer contact each other." Welcome to Marriage Builders, Rally. This sounds like a lover's spat. I think it's unlikely that the A is over. Your WH had another affair because there was no reason in his mind for him NOT to. There were no repercussions from his last A, and the two of you did nothing to prevent another affair. You can rebuild your M using the tools here, but you've got to destroy the A first. If you've been reading on this site for any length of time, you know that we advise exposure of the affair. What do you know about the OW? Is she married? Does she work with your H? How long has the A been going on? How did you find out about it?
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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He told me they were just friends but I have gathered evidence to the contrary and plan to present it to him tomorrow when he gets back into town. Hi RQ, welcome to Marriage Builders. I have a few questions. Does he travel for a living? How many nights a month do you spend apart. Who is the OW? Is she married? Does she have a facebook page? If so, will you go there and copy and paste all her contacts into a WORD doc for safekeeping.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And thank you for making a short, concise first post! 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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He told me they were just friends but I have gathered evidence to the contrary and plan to present it to him tomorrow when he gets back into town. Hang on a sec, Rally. Don't show this to him just yet. You don't want him to know just yet that you've busted him. He may contact OW to forewarn her that you're aware of the A and they'll begin damage control before you can expose to anyone who may be able to help kill the A. What did you find? Emails? Phone messages? Make sure you've made copies and have put them in a safe place.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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I will try to answer all your questions:
I have just exposed the affair to WH's parents. Spent the last two hours on the phone with them telling them everything. I have their full support.
WH met OW at a club. Without getting into too much detail, WH is a performer who travels roughly half the year and is gone about 70 percent of all weekends. This has been a major issue in our marriage.
OW is divorced, has a child and a good job. She lives 1,500 miles away but he performs in her town several times a year, and performs in her state several more. She is unlikely to move to our state -- she has a good job and a child.
WH also is unlikely to move to her state -- geographically, it would make no sense as a base for traveling to his shows, but mainly because he said he can't bear to even think about not being a daily part of our daughter's life.
BW: 49 WH: 41 Married 18 years, together 19 His first marriage; my second One daughter: 15 First affair: about seven years ago Second affair D-day: 11/16/11 Status: Married, living together
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As for evidence of the affair, I have been able to piece together the story of his seeing OW last month when he was in her state for shows. I have credit card info on his purchase of airline tickets and a train ticket to the city where I found out OW lives. I believe they are having a full-blown affair.
I don't know how long the affair has been going on, but she was posting to WH's Facebook page as far back as April 2010. WH has only recently told me about her existence when I asked him outright if he was seeing anyone, or interested in doing so. He said she was just a friend, that it wasn't physical but that he wondered what it would be like to be physical with her.
I know her full name, her ex-husband's name and her place of work.
I have no access to WH's cell phone statements or email. OW does have a FB page, which is how I found out her full name. I will copy her contacts into a document.
BW: 49 WH: 41 Married 18 years, together 19 His first marriage; my second One daughter: 15 First affair: about seven years ago Second affair D-day: 11/16/11 Status: Married, living together
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I will try to answer all your questions:
I have just exposed the affair to WH's parents. Spent the last two hours on the phone with them telling them everything. I have their full support. Will they speak to your WH and ask him to end his affair? WH met OW at a club. Without getting into too much detail, WH is a performer who travels roughly half the year and is gone about 70 percent of all weekends. This has been a major issue in our marriage. This is why he has affairs. He will continue to have affairs unless and until he stops traveling. Traveling jobs are an invitation to affairs. Not only that, but it is impossible to recover a marriage where you are not meeting each others needs - IN PERSON - every day. So when you confront him, you are going to have to do something about this. He either needs to find a new line of work or you need to travel with him. Thread about traveling jobs
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thank you for your responses. MelodyLane, to answer your question, WH's parents are willing to discuss the affair with their son and ask him to stop. However, they are in only the beginning stages of a thawing-out of a deep rift that has been going on with their son over a whole other issue. Essentially, WH cut off all contact with them for the past three years.
They encouraged me to tell WH that I told them about the affair. They predict this news will either wake him up or make him furious and even colder toward them (and me).
Your other comments, MelodyLane, about my husband's traveling, are discouraging. I don't see how I could travel with him with a 15-year-old at home. I wouldn't be able to do that for three years, until our daughter goes off to college.
I have discussed with him quitting his career so that he could stop traveling. This is his dream career. He's wanted to do it since he was a boy. He's wildly successful at it after many years of "paying his dues," and he said to give it up now would only make him resentful of me.
BW: 49 WH: 41 Married 18 years, together 19 His first marriage; my second One daughter: 15 First affair: about seven years ago Second affair D-day: 11/16/11 Status: Married, living together
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Thank you for your responses. MelodyLane, to answer your question, WH's parents are willing to discuss the affair with their son and ask him to stop. However, they are in only the beginning stages of a thawing-out of a deep rift that has been going on with their son over a whole other issue. Essentially, WH cut off all contact with them for the past three years. I just want to point out that this defeats the whole purpose of exposure. Keeping exposure a secret makes that exposure worthless. Your other comments, MelodyLane, about my husband's traveling, are discouraging. I don't see how I could travel with him with a 15-year-old at home. I wouldn't be able to do that for three years, until our daughter goes off to college.
I have discussed with him quitting his career so that he could stop traveling. This is his dream career. He's wanted to do it since he was a boy. He's wildly successful at it after many years of "paying his dues," and he said to give it up now would only make him resentful of me. His "dream career" is your worst nightmare. And it is not HIS resentment that will be the problem, but YOUR RESENTMENT when you end up divorced. You are not going to have a marriage if you place his career over your marriage. A spouses career should complement the marriage, not destroy it. There is no little job that is worth a marriage. His "resentment" over finding another career will fade in time, yours will NEVER fade because you will have your face rubbed in it every day until your divorce. And then your resentment will be even greater. Dr Harley wrote this to another board member whose husband, a pastor, continually pursued his "dreams" at the expense of his marriage: Your married life has been full of sacrifice. Don't do it anymore. One person's dreams can be another's nightmares. When that's the case in marriage, the dream should be abandoned. Whenever a spouse asks you to sacrifice, it's that person's Taker talking. He's not caring for you at that moment. He wants to gain at your expense. We all make mistakes, but whenever your husband makes that one, don't oblige. Then you'll have nothing new to feel resentful about. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=159203&Number=2330294#Post2330294
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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from Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112-113
What about Resentment? One of the most common objections to to the POJA is that it creates resentment when it is followed. I agree; it does usually create some resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed. An illustration will make this important point.
George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.
If George goes ahead and watches the game, he's guilty of independent behavior. He is not following the POJA and Sue will be resentful. When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call her resentment type A.
If George follows the POJA and doesn't accept Sam's invitation, then George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something because of Sue's objections I call this resentment type B.
Which type of resentment makes the largest love bank withdrawals: type A or type B? The answer is type A, and thats why the POJA helps build love bank balances. I'll explain.
When G violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel the effect of the thoughtless decision [love bank withdrawals] for as long as memory persists - possibly for life whenever the event is recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is limited in time. It only lasts as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable alternative that is acceptable to Sue.
George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn't invited to watch football and doesn't want to invite herself to Sam's house so she suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football. George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts an end to George's type B resentment.
Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully, unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating type A resentment.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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know her full name, her ex-husband's name and her place of work. Who told you she was divorced? Have you confirmed that independently? When was the divorce final? What type of job does she have?
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Good point, MelodyLane, about keeping exposure a secret. It's pretty ridiculous when you put it that way, lol. I will ask his parents to contact WH and ask him to stop the affair.
Also a good point, maritalbliss, that I don't actually know for sure that OW is divorced. WH told me this, and that she's been divorced for a year. But he could easily be blowing smoke.
Based on her LinkedIn page, OW has some sort of managerial job in a software department of a company. WH told me it was a "good" job.
Since WH comes home tomorrow, do you have any advice for how to approach him? Do I keep quiet about my evidence of the affair until I can expose it with his friends and the rest of his family? Do I try to initiate Plan A with him? I hardly know how to behave around him anymore, it feels so ugly and raw between us.
BW: 49 WH: 41 Married 18 years, together 19 His first marriage; my second One daughter: 15 First affair: about seven years ago Second affair D-day: 11/16/11 Status: Married, living together
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WH told me this, and that she's been divorced for a year. But he could easily be blowing smoke. Or she could have lied to him. Either way, you need to talk to her 'ex' when you expose.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Do I keep quiet about my evidence of the affair until I can expose it with his friends and the rest of his family? Do I try to initiate Plan A with him? I think you'll blow your exposure if you say anything to him. I would get exposure done first. Can you get in touch with her H today? I think he's going to be your main exposure target.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Since WH comes home tomorrow, do you have any advice for how to approach him? Do I keep quiet about my evidence of the affair until I can expose it with his friends and the rest of his family? Do I try to initiate Plan A with him? I hardly know how to behave around him anymore, it feels so ugly and raw between us. Tell him you know about his affair and DEMAND that he end all contact for life or this will lead to divorce. You also need to lower the boom about this traveling job and let him know your marriage will not survive unless he stops the travel. The future of your marriage is hopeless otherwise. I would expose the affair today to your kids, friends, family, the OW's parents and close family via her facebook page. Then when he comes home tomorrow you can discuss it. I would go to the OW's facebook page and copy and paste her contacts into a WORD doc. Prioritize by parents, family, married friends and send them a PRIVATE MESSAGE - samples here: here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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