G6,

I, too, was scared you-know-what after exposure and whined about the "what-ifs"...what if she leaves? what if she runs to OM? what if the threatens divirce? what if....

And you know what Mel told me to do? Nothing.

And you know what my W did after going apesxxt at exposure? Nothing.

Oh, she yelled, screamed...even grabbed a suitcase from the basement (and I started to weaken). She stormed out of the house, called her uncle from Walgreen's, then came back home and we went to bed -- after she put the suitcase back.

As Mel and Marital and NG etc. were wise enough to remind me: where, really, would she be going if she left?

I still think you need to realize something. Nothing you do will "make" her do anything. She will do what she wants to do, one way or the other. You can keep getting what you've been getting. Or you can try to fix it.

It sounds like to me you are thinking that once you expose she will see the error of her ways and immediately jump right back into the marriage. I doubt that happens. If she stays, it will likely be for some self-serving reason in the beginning. I don't want to discourage you, just want you to be prepared.

Withdrawal lasts a long time, and will last indefinitely if NC doesn't happen. You have to insist on it. The time for compromises isn't now.

You don't realize it, but you hold the cards, but it is not going to be easy. She will probably act like a prisoner in her own home, she won't want to be there. You need to be the man you should be. Caring, but not wimpy. Do the right things, don't kowtow to her every whim and outburst. Don't explode at the things will say. Respond that you want to stay married and make a good marriage and you hope she will too.

Don't go overboard and lovey-dovey things, like flowers, cards, etc, they will probably anger her and make her sick. Just make things where any sane person would want to join in. When she is sane again, she might.

Think long and hard on this point. One thing I guarantee you she considers is filing for divorce and getting you out. A scenario has never entered her mind where she would be out on her can. If she leaves or will not stop contact, I would definitely consider filing first. Also, no matter what she says or does, never move out of your home, never.

You would control the timetable, she would be reacting to you.
The unpleasant scenarios that she hasn't considered will be in play. She will have to envision a life that is different than her fantasy.

Above all, try to stay even keeled. try to minimize the roller coaster. This is what a wise MB told me when something happened and I was happy because it was "a sign of hope."

From BigKahuna
You and your marriage CAN survive your wife's anger - it cannot survive an ongoing affair.
Herb if you see every little thing as "giving you some hope" you will be an emotional wreck soon.
You have to learn not to get your validation from her. Know who you are in Christ. Be happy.

Much of what you need to do after exposure will be the save your own mental health and make sure that, if the time comes, you will be able to build a good marriage. I hope you get the chance.

I will say it once again. Any semblance of your old marriage is gone, get that through your head and embrace it. This is about making something good out of a pile of ####.

A lot of the success or failure depends on you. I will be honest, I will probably not give you any more advice because the mindset of a man that had his wife in a long term affair and she moved out to be with OM, moved back in and kept the affair going and he took it is foreign to even my conflict avoiding mind, I can't grasp it. I think your mindset really needs to change. A lot.

I haven't told you anything trying to discourage you, but I think it important that you not be Pollyanna.

If you get the affair stopped (ie. expose it and see), then you have a chance.

It is far from a slam dunk. I have been given the opinion by some that it is 50/50. Maybe it is because of my experience that I am not so optimistic. But I know you will have a chance where you didn't before. A lot depends on where things have gotten/get to before you start the ball rolling. That is why there is the urgency you feel from us, we know this. Also, a lot depends on your wife's make-up, personality. In my case, the combination of the state of the game and her make-up was too much to overcome. I have had more than one on here tell me that they thought we would make it, mainly because there was no reason we couldn't have, but we didn't.

One thing I will tell you, if you follow the MB way, and that could eventually include Plan B and divorce, but if you follow it, you will come out mentally healthier and better prepared to be a husband, with your wife hopefully, or with another. I guarantee it. For now focus on getting the affair stopped, Plan A, and getting through withdrawal. Set the bar high, a good marriage or nothing. Not this mess you have now.

Now, go for it and get the ball rolling.

G6,
mmmherb and others are giving you very good advice.
You are chasing her and waiting for her to respond and spending alot of your time and energy trying to be what she wants. Seems like it is a bit backwards. Why would she change anything when she hasn't lost anything. 2 guys putting forth effort and she gets to call the shots.
After too many months of chasing my WW and wondering what I did wrong or right and how she would judge it I had enough. I worked on me and my kids. I took kids out for fun. I went out for (still married) fun. I backed off much of the contact I had. When she figured out I was spending less time waiting for her and was happy without her and didn't NEED her she got worried. When I stopped following her and changed course she started following me more and trying to please me. Sometimes when she had kids and called I just let phone ring, made her wonder??? I also dropped 50+ lbs and started dressing better. She was afraid to loose me.

d

That's one thing which really throws of a wayward. When you back off and quit looking like you care what she's up to but start living your life without consideration for what she may or may not want to do.

Be friendly, but aloof.

I'm going to post the 180 to you. It is not MB advice. It's a guideline, nothing more. It helped me, but mainly as a mental checklist for avoiding behavior I didn't like to do.

It isn't a set of hard and fast rules. It's a guide and nothing more. Tailor it to your needs.

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back.

Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

All, thanks you for the comments, stories and inspiration! Sorry I was,kt online until now. My computer at work is being rebuilt and it's hard to use the one at home with m W in the room. I'm sending this from mu phone so I'll keep it short, and hopefully not too many typos!

I just got caught up on the posts.... Thanks again!

Mel and helpforlostdads - I'm so glad to see both of you posting here again. I know I was a little defensive the other day, but I imaine I'm not the first one you see get that way, especially when first coming here. It's been a wake up call for me for sure. I have spent the past day just going through this and working on a strategy. I met eith the theraist today and discussed it with her, and was surpised she didn't advise against it. I think given that my W moved out, then asked me to take her back, and then continue the affair. I think even the therapist agreed it's time to let their secret out. She did suggest I tell my wife to tell the kids, but I think that won't work anyway. My W had a hard enough time telling the kids she was leaving in Sep.

G6

helpforthelostdads, I like the guidelines! Reminds me of a lot of the things I'm doing wrong.... That advice could be perfect for me.... Thanks again!

Great post HTLD.....

YOU need to tell the kids. She will likely try to massage the story to make herself look saintly, or make you look bad. Your therapist already 'validated' her actions. Tell them first when you are exposing the affair. When are you going to expose?

Listen, she doesn't even need to know that you are exposing it until after it is done. That way, there can be no spinning of facts, no getting stories straight, no plans made to derail.

Tell everyone the facts, facts only, and ask for their help. Don't tell them what to do or even suggest anything. Just tell them the facts and ask for their help.

What happens after that, the only thing you can control is what you do.

Once again, you need to embrace what is happening. This is a tipping point, the beginning of something new. To rely and consult with someone that has until this point validated your avoidance and helped get you to this point is just stalling.

You really need to get it. You don't yet.

Thanks for the apology, Giraffe. And I am glad you are getting on board now. I think you will reap great benefits.

And it is not a good idea to ask your wife to tell the kids. First off, it will just create unneccesary conflict that will likely result in your children NOT getting the truth. It is stressful enough without adding that unneccessary step. Just tell them the truth and encourage the children to discuss their feelings with her.

I am sure your therapist means well, but she is clearly not trained in infidelity.

G6
Your need to tell the kids yourself the facts. Not mean or belittling their mom but so they understand what is happening.
She will tell them her side later, count on it. Hers will be anger and justification, they will believe you.
You don't have to tell anyone else what to think about your wife's affair. They will have an opinion, you're asking for help in saving your marriage and telling them you want things to be better. That will go a long ways towards getting them to help.
Lastly your wife won't believe you are doing this. Too bad, this is more than you can do yourself.

Tell the kids asap.

I would say it as tell everybody ASAP. Tell the kids first, but make sure you are able to do it all in a short time. Exposure should be in one fell swoop, not dragged out. Get it all done before she even gets wind of it.

You don't want her to find out and do a preemptive strike on some of your targets. Everyone needs to hear your factual, straightforward, unemotional version first. When she comes in like a crazy woman, the contrast will be stark.

G6, you need to do this brother. Its not just the road back to your marriage. Its the road back to your manhood. It really is.

Fight and you will win. Even if you lose. I promise you I have yet to see anyone come back and say they shouldn't have done it.

Hi all, sorry I finally got my computer back at work but looks like I might have to give it back to the help desk again. I have a computer at home but don't ususally have privacy to go and read the posts. I will from my phone but the text is so small and it's not easy to post.

I have not exposed yet, still thinking of Thanksgiving when I have all the kids face to face. I admit I am stuggling doing it over a holiday but I feel the time is right.

I haven't really "told" my wife to end the affair. She even told me back when I first discovered that I was making it easy for her. That's never been my intention. I was trying to let her get through it. Of course I realzie that plan hasn't worked! Should I talk to her and let her know that I don't appect this and that is has to end! I mean when she came back after leaving I did tell her I didn't want to share her any logner and she agreed, but that's really the closest I've came to asking her to end the A. I really feel like a doormat, probably because I've been one! haha. I want to talk to her tongiht and address the affair and tell I feel it needs to end. I don't plan to give any hints of my plans, just realized over the weekend that we have talked about this over the past four months but I haven't really said, "hey, this needs to end!" or whatever I'm supposed to say.

Thanks!

G6,

Over the weekend, my W asked what I was doing on the computer at night?

I told her, being O&H, that I was shopping for a birthday gift for her (her bday is in Dec.).

Her response? "You already gave me a gift for life -- a second chance to remain married to you."

We're not here w/ out exposure.

You need to expose ASAP.

Good luck.

FIRST expose the affair, Giraffe. Then when the dust settles go to her and DEMAND she end her affair. Exposure is a critical element to the recovery of your marriage and needs to be done FIRST.

here

AFTER the affair is exposed, set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Thanks helpfodad. That is the plan, just prefer to have the kids face to face, which I will later this week. I was just curious if I should talk to her tongiht about ending the affair. No mention of anything else, just was thinking over this past weekend and realized I hadn't really demanded or even asked that she end it. Other than when she came back home, I asked if she would be faithful, she said yes and that she agreed I wouldn't have to "share her with someone else". I realize my approach of letting her get through this on her own hasn't worked and in fact has just enabled the affair. Like I said I feel like I've been a doormat, because I guess I have been. Just wanted to know what you guys think about me talking to her, being firm, putting my foot down if you will. Not demanding because I assume in her current state of this fog she's in, she might just laugh at me.

Thoughts?

P.S. I love this part in your message....
"Her response? "You already gave me a gift for life -- a second chance to remain married to you."

We're not here w/ out exposure."

I hope/pray to have similar results and us recovering our marriage, but I know that's not the first step and there's a lot of work to be done between now and then. Just wanted you to know that I liked that message. And I'm happy for you and your wife!!!!!!

FIRST expose the affair, Giraffe. Then when the dust settles go to her and DEMAND she end her affair. Exposure is a critical element to the recovery of your marriage and needs to be done FIRST.

here

AFTER the affair is exposed, set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.