CV,
I just started reading your story but had to come back and comment. I'm chuckling because my mom is 100% Irish and my dad is 100% Italian.......making me 50/50. I've always been a bit "scrappy" too!
CT

Well...I'm gonna disagree with your counselor and your cousin just a tad -- I'm gonna recommend that you not go easy on yourself, but rather you recognize that YOU are in control of your thoughts -- YOU are in control of your actions -- This is a CHOICE, plain and simple. So you choose -- every time you think of OM or the affair in a positive light, choose otherwise RIGHT THEN -- INSTANTLY. IMMEDIATELY choose a different thought pattern -- IMMEDIATELY choose to take positive actions with your marriage and family in mind. When you do good, you will begin to feel good. It really is that simple. "Baby steps" have no place in this process -- You must go all in...

I also used to be one who lived in my daydreams, until I realized finally [post affair] that my life was completely within my control -- that my life was a direct result of my choices. ***I*** had the power to make my life -- my reality -- better than any daydream that I could ever conjure in my head.

It is a matter of shifting your perspective, CT. Become GRATEFUL for the life in front of you. As you go through your day to day existence try replacing the phrase "I have to" with "I get to". Dwell on how very blessed you are -- you threw a grenade into your home and everyone survived -- not only that, even after you did that you are still welcomed with open arms -- Think about the grace and mercy you've been offered -- THAT is awe-inspiring, isn't it?

Many times I look at Mr. W and I can't fathom how he could have done what he has -- take me back and choose to fall in love with me again -- I was a monster to him and he chose me in spite of that. So if it's dramatic feelings that inspire you -- focus on the great love story that you and your husband can choose to write together every single day. Think, "what can I do for him today to make his life better?" -- "what can I do today to meet his ENs?"...

CT, I'm going to make a suggestion -- Take the money that you are spending on your therapist and instead buy the MB Online Program -- Book a hotel for the weekend and go through it with your husband. Work the program in it's entirety, CT. THAT is what will help. Did you know that most people that experience adultery in their marriages don't divorce -- a good thing, of course -- but you know what's sad? MOST also don't recover. Most continue to limp along in a very unsatisfying marriage. Choose for that not to be you and your husband.

I want you to really think about therapy -- what are you actually gaining from it? As I asked you before, what specifically has it helped you with and how? I know for me therapy was mostly a giant waste of time and money -- I sat there talking about "bad things" in my life -- much of it stuff that had already happened -- stuff I could do nothing about -- the only thing therapy was allowing me to do was to focus on those bad things that I couldn't change [wound picking] -- many times I left the therapist's office crying. For that I was paying $90/hour? Think about it.

Mrs. W

P.S. How cool that middle school in your area has a drama department! Our dd would be thrilled to pieces if she had that at her school.

Not to take one thing away from CV or you, CT -- but you know what I find? That sometimes I need a well aimed 2x4 -- Now that doesn't mean I LIKE them at the time -- Nope, not at all...but those things said to me that bring up my defenses and make me want to lash out? Turns out much of the time those are unpleasant truths that I need to face and deal with. I can't tell you how grateful I am for those who doled out 2x4's to me here when I needed them.

Now, that's not to say that some 2x4's aren't ill placed and unwarranted -- that does happen, I know. So, I am also grateful for the folks who came to my defense when I received those here.

Here's something I also try to keep in mind when reading a post to me that causes me to squirm -- Are words used to describe my behavior ever more harsh than my actual behavior?

Just some stuff to think about....

Mrs. W

Wow! I am speechless after reading CV's story. I spent my entire break reading it. There is one line that stuck out at me:

You guys saved me from chronic rectal-cranial inversion

What a perfect description of the warped thinking that comes with A's (the WW's in particular).

CV.......you are a saint.........just like my BH.

Mrs. W,
What a wonderful idea that we do the entire MB online program in one weekend. I proposed this idea to my husband. Everything you say to me makes me stronger. I have hope from your story. I hope that 6 years from now,I am helping someone like you are helping me.

Thank you, also, for the advice on how to handle the inappropriate 2 by 4's. I don't mind ones that are justified.

I have to go prep for my next class now. I work in a very affluent district which is why the kids have middle school theater classes. In fact, it's a requirement for every kid every year. It's so much fun. I love my job!

Thank you to everyone who gives a rat's ____ enough about me to respond.
xoxo
CT

CT, I want to affirm MrsW's excellent advice to you. You really would be better off using that money on the MB program than going to counseling. Going to therapy and talking endlessly about your problems [the OM] is what is keeping you triggered and enmeshed in the problem. Every time you speak of the OM it just brings him back into the PRESENT and fuels the addiction. I have been an AA member for 26 years and we certainly don't allow newcomers to pine away about their love of alcohol. We tell them to keep that crap to themselves and focus on recovery. Talking about it just makes it worse and for that reason, I think most therapy is just plain destructive.

One of the reasons that MrsW recovered so fast is that she THREW herself into this program even though she sure didn't feel like it at first. Bring the body and the mind will follow. And believe me, we cared enough to knock her up side of the head early and often when warranted. We didn't tell her what she wanted to hear. Those that tell you what to hear when you are clearly messing up are really not on your side, after all. So please don't discount the value of 2x4's.

I hope you do take her advice and sign up for the online course. My H and I went through this course with the W's in 2007 and it is a wonderful program.

ML,
I always value your advice because I know you are one of the veterans. And you are surely right when you say that people who say what I want to hear are not helping me. I wish all those people who "supported" my affair would have done the opposite. I wish one of them would have smacked me upside the head with a REAL 2 by 4 !
You are right about talking about the POSOM. My therapist said the next time I think of him to remember that it's really about my issues with my father. The POSOM is like my father in many ways. My father did the best he could. He did not molest me nor did he drink or abandon us. My poor dad was dealing with his own issues (OCD and Depression) but his old school ways didn't believe in taking meds, so he suffered for years.
Do you think BH and I should discontinue marital therapy (a different therapist than mine)? We love our therapist and she seems to be helping us a lot.

For real?? How does that logic work?


Is the therapist focusing on a PLAN to restore the romantic love in your marriage or is the focus on grievances and "communication?" What is her plan to recover your marriage? Do you counsel together and if so, are you permitted to say negative things about the other?

Long story on that logic. She's been helping me figure out the roots of my abandonment issues. Not sure that it's helping me at all. Might be hindering me actually.
Ugh.....no real plan but she knows we're working MB. Yes, she does help us on "communication" and tapping into our "softer" feelings.
Thoughts?

Yes, many thoughts. It is NOT helping you -- why? How does focusing on things that happened in the past help you today? What does it do for your marriage?

Any "abandonment issues" that you may or may not have had NOTHING to do with your choice to have an affair -- You did that because you didn't have appropriate boundaries. You didn't take extraordinary precautions to protect your marriage by keeping yourself away from temptation. That's it -- there is no deeper secret answer, CT.

My suggestion CT? Drop all the other therapists and do the MB program...You will be AMAZED.

Please take it from someone who also grew up with a dad who chose not to take medication for his mental illness -- there is no "solving" that -- it is what it is -- your past -- your childhood -- nothing can be done to change or fix it, and focusing on it amounts to nothing more than navel gazing.

Go with a program that works by focusing on ACTIONS that you can do TODAY to make your marriage and life be the very best they can be. I would not waste another second of my time or dime of my money on therapy that wasn't MB. Before you or anyone else asks, I do not get paid to tell you any of this -- I tell you only because I've lived it and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it works!

Mrs. W

CT...

I have a suggestion. Call Dr. Harley and ask him for yourself -- please tell him what your therapist said about the affair and how it relates to childhood issues with your father. Dr. Harley is a board certified psychologist with more than 40 years of experience -- and you can talk to him FREE on his radio show. They will even send you a free book for calling!

Here's the info:


Mrs. W

CT;

Marriage Builders recovery is ACTION based.

It doesn't matter if you were spanked as a child, born to an unwed mother, had a father who didn't hug you enough, or any of the alphabet soup of diagnosis's.

All that searching does nothing more than provide you with a justification for doing wrong. ("I had an affair because I was a middle child" or fill in the blank)

It just doesn't matter. You did wrong. Forgive yourself and do better. From this day forward make the right choices.

What is your code of ethics?
What is your position on lying? Cheating? Speeding? Drug-taking? Decide what behavior goes along with living the kind of life you want to live.

It isn't much different than teaching your children right from wrong. Hold yourself to those same standards.

And you will be vulnerable to OM forever. Forever.
So what matters is not your thoughts, but your actions.
I can tell you, that now, 8 or 9 years after my affair ended I can still be surprised by a random thought about OM, and the temptation to "see" how he is. But that thought is very quickly followed by how disgusted I am at myself for my poor decisions back then. As time goes on, thinking of OM will be come distant and far between. Just let that happen.

CT - it doesn't matter anymore. What matters is today. You cannot change what was - you can only change the now. That now means you need to focus on healing your BH's pain.

The other stuff is a distraction because it takes the focus on how you need to learn a new habit of living today. You are either living your values or you are not. If you are not, then you will continuously feel less than as a person.

How are you living your values today?

1) Making sure your husband's top five emotional needs are met.
2) Avoiding all lovebusters
3) Never breaking your EP's.

ugh, that is what I was afraid of. Focusing on your childhood is just a distraction that keeps you from focusing on adult problems. It brings problems from the past into the present. I learned the hard way that this is a waste of time. As far as your marriage counselor, it is clear she has no plan if she is focusing on "communication" and your softer feelings. You need to be focusing on changing behaviors that made your marriage vulnerable. Sitting in a counselors office together makes your marriage MORE vulnerable because it usually leads to severe lovebusting. Couples leave more angry and more out of love than when they went in.

Check out these quotes by Dr Harley, who is a clinical psychologist:



here

here

here

It's a dangerous mix!

You're welcome for the no 2x4. I didn't see you needed one. You were simply being honest and looking for constructive help. Glad I could be there.

CV

CT, if grace reads this I'll be in trouble. She might post the rest of the truth about me!

Work hard on controlling those thoughts. It's the money maker for you. Focus on meeting H's needs and you will find your healing is right on it's heels.

T� d�lseacht f�or bronntanas

Here's the trick (IMO) to abandonment issues... It requires you to open yourself up like you've never done before to the one you love. Let him/her see you in all your glory, for good or ill and watch them. See how they accept you regardless?

All us BS' have abandonment issues now and again because of the A. Healing comes when we open ourselves up to our spouse and let them help in the healing. The same is true for FW's.

No need for a therapist to figure that one out. Focusing on the past so many times just dredges up muck. It stinks and sticks to you.

CV

Thanks everyone for your support and advice. I think I've been feeling weak lately because I've been having horribly vivid dreams regarding the posom and my lost friendships. There are two reasons for these vivid dreams. It's a side effect of my anti-depressent and I tend to dream more during my week of PMDD.

For those of you who don't know what PMDD is: pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder. Basically it means that I was going insane two weeks of every month due to my hormonal imbalance.

It usually takes me a few hours to stop feeling the effects of these dreams. I can see, hear, feel, and sometimes even smell so vividly. It's freaky but better than being suicidal.

Something is off with your BH filling a need. I encourage you to work with him to figure out what he isn't doing. Something is keeping you triggered, and it is likely a need not being fully met.

Go through the EN's again and see if something has changed, or if you need to spend more time in a specific area.

They need to focus on the top 4 intimate emotional needs. Those are the ones that make the greatest lovebank deposits. Stick to the top 4 for now.

I think what is keeping her triggered is she is going to therapist and pining for the OM and then going to a MC with her husband to engage in lovebusting sessions.