Ok, answers in.

Her: I will see you there at 1.

Crestfallen, do you think she would talk to Steve instead of seeing this counselor? I suspect she is doing this so she can say she did 'everything she could' to save the marriage. "See - I even went to counseling with Crestfallen, and it didn't work!"

I would put your money on the fastest horse - skip the counselor and get her on the phone with Steve.

[/quote]Crestfallen, do you think she would talk to Steve instead of seeing this counselor? I suspect she is doing this so she can say she did 'everything she could' to save the marriage. "See - I even went to counseling with Crestfallen, and it didn't work!"

I would put your money on the fastest horse - skip the counselor and get her on the phone with Steve. [/quote]

I guess I figure try and talk to about going the MB way and get her to talk to Steve that way. You know, kind of a neutral ground at the counselor. Just trying to come up with a plan right now. What to say, how to say it.


Thinking along the lines of:

Would you consider trying something/someone else if there was even just a chance of working this out?

I'm sorry I wasn't able to do the things you needed before. But, I feel that MB really has a system that works. How about trying it out, at least one time.

-Crestfallen

So, I texted her once more with, "To be completely honest I would rather skip our counselor and try marriage builders."

But, she's not going to be available to answer for at least an hour from now due to her work.

Going to see what that brings back.

-Crestfallen

Crest ... my wife and I did counselling for 4 sessions .. the first was my wife and I together .. the 2nd was me alone and the 3rd was my wife alone. What we discovered was that it made things worse. After the 3rd session I told my wife we could skip all this hurt and rehashing and just move forward using the MB material .. not only that but MB material is available for free and if you want to dive in deeper .. then you can get the books relevant to your situation. My wife reluctantly agreed at first .. but later was glad she did .. becasue by the time we got to the 4th session .. we were holing hands and cuddling in the counsellor waiting room. The counsellor asked us what had changed (our previous session we were fighting like cats and dogs and even had the counsellor crying along with my wife during our 1st session). We told her that we had found MB and that it was actually working. She was aware of MB and said thats great! and we spent the session talking about our solutions (that we disovered with mb) and the counsellor was very surprised! we left holding hands again .. and when the session was over she asked us if we would be returning .. and my wife said .. NOPE! MB for life!

Later my wife thanked me for introducing MB to her even tho i had mentioned it many times before we even went to counselling. Saved hundreds of dollars in counselling session fees .. and bought some books from MB instead. All our books combined did not even add up to 2 counselling sessions. Well worth it and no rehashing... just moving forward with proven solutions!

MNG

edited to add that after the 4th session my wife and I did the love busters and emotional needs questionairs and wow were we surprised. My wife learned more about herself in a few mins than what she had learned on her own her entire life .. she had no idea that you could figure out as easy as pie what the issues whee by filling out those questionairs. Fortunately for me my wife was only chatting to guys online and that was confusing her .. and causing her to have a point of comparison and I was doing the same .. but once we figured out that EA is dangers as PA ... (didnt even know EA was a possibility til i came here and then tried to educate my wife about it) things began to change as i changed my ways and my wife warmed up to the posibility that i was correct and only a few weeks into the MB program from the materails on the site the light began to shine on us again. Was not perfect all the time .. but def better than the rollercoaster of emotions and turmiols caused by the EAs we were both in. We both ended it all mutually after realizing the damage it was causing. The EA's were from MMORPGs that we got sucked into when we first got internet. VERY DAMAGING! Stay away from MMOs.

I hear you MrNiceGuy. I've read all the books...borrowed from the library here. But the wife refused to read them. Or, I think she did. The only one she started to read was SAA...but she doesn't think it was an affair, just cheated on me. I've asked her to read them, at least one, all the way through, check out the website.

We've seen the counselor about 4 times. But, she is a bereavement counselor. So, I don't feel like she was helping much. Hence, why I am trying to get the W to at least read SAA, so she can kind of see what I am feeling. Best case, get her to call Steve.

I know she only agreed to go to the counselor so she could tell em again that she "cares for me deeply but doesn't love me anymore."

I've been snooping, or trying to snoop to see if there is an ongoing affair or not. I have a feeling it is, but maybe not with whom I think.

My question is then, do I try and compromise and say, try this with me for awhile longer, and if there isn't anything you hear that helps you feel it can work we'll talk peaceable Plan D.

Do not discuss D if you want to stay married.

I'm not saying consider D, just do not put it on the table.

Yeah .. what I pointed out to my wife first was teh cost! I was all like .. honey .. look at the cost of this counsellor (100bux per hour) we can skip this cost and use MB which is much more effective and productive. The cost is what initally convinced her to not do counselling anymore .. and after the 1st session was so horrible emotionally she began to think it was a waste of time but we were comitted to 4 sessions. She reluctantly agreed to MB after the 3rd session becasue she didnt like the cost. her reaction was "well if we can save us from spending 100bux an hour on the counsellor then i guess we can try it for a while and see how the session go with the counselor too .. and put them together. But like i said .. we didnt need anyhting after the 4th session ... just MB! my wifes reluctant atitude changed after seeing results from the MB material in just a few weeks. Then we got some books and its all history from there.

I agreee... tell her you are willing to try the cousellor for a bit longer but if it doesnt seem to help .. ask if she would take on MB on the side or until she feels one is doing better than the other!

Have you put a keylogger on the pc? or her phone?

The other way you could approach it too would be to ask her if she would be willing to snuggle in bed with you and you read the books out loud to her and discuss them as you read them. It was a great eye opener for my wife as I offered to read them to her .. and she really enjoyed it. It was great UA time. Created lots of conversation!

I was pretty sure that was the idea. I know for a fact that she's started on that paperwork already. Thanks Herb.

NiceGuy,

She doesn't like to play games with me. I at one time started to get into an EA, but felt terrible about how I felt. I told the woman I was uncomfortable talking about things with her. If we to remain friendly, I could never bring up my personal life again.
That friend, whom I don't really talk to much anymore, was understanding. I didn't know it was going towards EA at the time, but now, wow, I could have been in a terrible place.

So now I only play MMO's with my guy friends. And only DC Online at that. Free is better.

-Crest

I don't think she is really willing to do the counselling anymore. Just wants to go there to prove she is done. I would just like her to take some time to read through the books, maybe call Steve once. Get some kind of idea in her head, that yes, I really am working hard at doing things.

And that, yes, there is HOPE.

edit None smart phone...and keylogger on her laptop, but she has a comp at work I can not access.

Yeah, probably not. She moved into the spare bedroom awhile back. I get the impression she is loath to look at me much less touch me.

OK .. i just read your thread ... i see no one has suggested you put a GPS pr a voice activated recorder in her car. I would do that! Get teh VAR and place it in a secret location (the dash .. or under the seat) if shes yacking to her AP then you will catch it on the VAR and thevery least if she is confiding to her best friend about details your not getting . youll get what she says caught on the VAR.

ANother thing to point out is that you are very early on with exposure. ALL the things that are going on are very fresh. Just start being the man she needs you to be and do not worryabout her reactions. You have an advantage and that is that she is still in your home! If you want to be with her ... just be the best you can be and snoop in silence to get more intel. Vent here but NOT on your wife. Keep doing Plan A for a while ... eventually if she is in an affair she will slip up and you will find something.

edit spelling

Guy,

I can't afford a VAR or GPS. I have looked into them. Only got, abiet free keylogger on her computer yesterday. Though she doesn't use her laptop much as she has her computer at work.

I've started doing all the things I can do. Most of her complaints were that I stopped being interested in her life. Not sitting and listening to her, and not doing anything around the house. Of course, I saw she was right. That was a few months ago. Since then, I have taken over pretty much all cleaning of the house, and made sure to listen to her as best as I was able. Trying to get her to talk about anything and everything.

We even started a remodel project of our bathroom. Took some trips to the Minneapolis just to go to Ikea for cool stuff. Yet, I now feel in my heart that she had OM, whom I am not certain of now...of course it might have been driven underground...

So, I found out about the "cheat" as she puts it. I tried to just shake it off, knowing I "could" forgive, and that I would never use it as ammo in a fight. Said I was "letting" it go, but it would take me awhile. I think she heard me say I let it go, but lied about it.

So, it's now trying to prove an affair with someone, or if she is just "that way" because, as she said, "I know you can't fullfill my needs anymore."

So, yes I need a VAR...but not sure how to afford one. The GPS, well, that even harder for me. She's been the bank for many years, and will see anything I pull out of the account or pay for by card.

So I'm just kinda winging it as best I can. Always wondering if I should just let it lie. I don't want to, but without some indication that I can get more time, it's tough.

-Crestfallen


Edit: Might have a friend who's going out to buy a VAR for me.

Remember Crest, Plan A isn't all carrot. Why is your WW the "bank"? Has it always been that way?

Yup, when we first met I was terrible with money. So, we worked it out that she would handle finances for most things. IE pay the bills and whatnot. Not to say I can't, just that I wasn't very good at managing. Now, I know I can do it. And she has already got herself a personal account. She's really moving ahead with Plan D.

Anyway, all I've been able to do is the carrot so far. She won't talk to me other than when I am headed to work, or the far in between texts. I have no proof of anything anymore, and with her entire family and most friends backing her story I need more proof again.

A friend did get me a VAR from Radio shack, hope it works well enough...and that I can get it into her car.

Still haven't heard from her from earlier. Night cross countries are a pain I tell ya.

This is just something to think about.

If she is already looking into divorce, maybe you should beat her to the punch. That way you have more control over the timetable.

Just an idea. If you control the timing, you have more time.

I can't remember if you have kids. This is hard work, With kids involved, worth it all. For just you, think about it.

I only know that she has been to see a lawyer. Doesn't mean a whole lot to me. At this point, what have I got to lose? Not much as I see it. No matter what I do, plan A carrot and stick, she avoids me as much as possible. Trying to do what I feel I have to do is what I see. If she is completely unwilling to do anything, or see that it could work. So be it, but I know for a fact I did everything I could within my power to do. And in doing all this, I know I am a better human being for it.

I get some solace in thinking about Karma. Sure, I'll always have some love for her, and I'd probably never hear about her downfall...but I have some hope in it.

No we don't have children. She had an aversion to having them because she the thought of child-birth was abhorrent, and that a baby would ruin her career. She's been that way since the day I met her. I'm ok with it. I have a daughter who turned 14 today actually. Was out of wedlock...that's a whole other story for some other day.

Anyway, just to make sure I am clear about my intentions. I think a healthy, loving marriage is what everyone should have, myself included. Even with all that's happened, I can see a way to make it work. I plan to work on myself, for myself. And if she comes around during it, great. If not, I just want the house, and my electronics.

Some days it feels like maybe she wants to be the usual, oft heard about woman...but then, like today, I found some paper work of a consult she did where I am listed as getting the realestate, with a question mark. I plan to stay here for a long time...she wants to get away from the snow and ice. But, if we do anything with the house, ie refinance, we would owe the government the first time home buyers tax back...unless we can hold off one more year.

SO, yeah, ranting mostly now. But maybe that will help someone understand where I am at. I'm hurt, I'm depressed, and exhausted. I would love to have the woman I married back, and am going to fight. Yet, I will never agree to just roll over and die. And that is why I come here. To get some better support and understanding. My so called friends aren't much help in that respect.

There are so many uplifting stories here..some not nice ones too. But for each one there is a lesson. One I am taking in and trying to fit it into my understanding. Thanks for listening to me whine.

-Crestfallen

While you can, you need to shore up your end of the finances. If you have any joint credit cards where you are the primary, you need to remove her from them. If she is the primary, call that card company and see what can be done to remove you from the card.

Start thinking about how you can segregate your finances...direct deposits, etc.

As for buying things without her knowing, take out cash and buy one of those Visa or Mastercard gift cards at the drug store. Use those to pay for any spyware online.

Above all, though, I'd start learning about your financial situation so that she doesn't, well, rob you blind. It's happened before, and we all want you to cover your rear on this one.

I'm glad to hear you have an open mind on that. Since no children are involved, it makes it both easier and harder at the same time...depends on your perspective, I suppose.