Hi. I am new to the discussion forum and was hoping someone could offer a little insight into my situation.

Here is our history:

My husband and I have been married 16 years and have 3 children. My husband has been involved in viewing online pornography for a long time - I only realized it was a problem around 6 years when I found lots of saved images online. I had been suspicious prior to that, but had no evidence. We entered counselling together and the counsellor told us that if my husband didn't address his issues that they would lead to bigger ones - affairs, etc. My husband got an accountability partner and was to check in with me weekly to tell me how he was doing. Apparently, he had a miraculous recovery, because he always told me he was able to resist the temptation. I was proud of him and encouraged him. I now know that this was months of lying, because recently I found a site that he visited where he had a profile and it shows he was logging in that entire time. I am sure there were more sites, I just haven't found them.

The couples counselling fizzled because I could not get him to attend and he claimed he was doing well personally. I was disappointed, but couldn't convince him.

Well, last November (2010) I found out that what the counsellor predicted had come true. My husband got involved in an online relationship. When I looked in the history of his computer before confronting him I noticed he had been in contact with past girlfriends (just flirty emails), had been sexting with another stranger and now was involved with this new girl. The emails were very sexual and involved plans of divorcing me and meeting her. All in the course of 8 weeks - he was head over heels in love with this woman he'd never met. They skyped, phoned each other, sent racy photos and texted all day.

When I confronted him, he lied and minimized. I had the proof - I'd printed off the chats I could find and then he admitted it and promised to end it. We started counselling again right away. What I didn't realize was that he got right back into the relationship the very next day. There we were, in counselling, with him telling me how sorry he was and how he wanted the relationship, but he was secretly still with the OW- he was just getting sneakier.

One month later, I found the proof and confronted him again. Again, he was sorry, and I forgave. Still more counselling together with him telling me he wants the relationship. I learn later, he tried to reconnect with the OW, but she wouldn't continue until he was single. I can see now in retrospect, that he was undermining the counselling in the hopes, I think, that I would give up and he would be free. There were months of problems, suspicions, but no proof. We continued in the counselling weekely, me forgiving and trying to work on the things he said bothered him about me. I was trying to save the relationship, while he was working to end it. It was a horrible year - because I could tell he wasn't invested in the relationship - I could just feel things weren't right. Any changes that he had to make because of broken trust were considered "punishments" to him. I was going nuts - like a private investigator in my own home. Crying and searching online during the day and trying to be normal mother and wife in the evenings. Anyway - this past summer, I found out that the relationship was still going on. Prior to this I did tell him that if I found out that he was continuing to be unfaithful he would have to move out. His response was "give me the rope and let me hang myself". Well - he did. And when I found proof of a holiday that he was planning with her, I confronted him. He lied again until I showed the proof and then he confessed. Without yelling or crying, I just grabbed the suitcases and started packing his stuff. He was shaking and so upset, begging me not to do this. But I did.

He begged me to reconsider. Said for me not to do this to the children. I felt very strongly that I needed to give him the message that I would no longer tolerate lying and unfaithfulness. Enough was enough. He needed tough love.

He has been living outside the house for 5 months now. He repeatedly says he wants to come home, wants the marriage and wants us to be a family.... BUT, he continues to lie. He still chats with women online and in one conversation with me while discussing the relationship he did say he wasn't sure whether he could remain faithful if things got tough in the future for us. Yikes. He refuses to go to counselling with me insisting that they create more problems then help.

My kids are devastated. I am knocking my head against the wall thinking, why won't this man turn from his wicked ways and restore this family.

I kept his affair a secret for the whole year, only telling the pastor an elder and our parents (his and mine). When he left, I told the rest of the family (except our children - on the advice of my counsellor).

He sees the kids regularly, pays all my bills, talks about "when I come home" and even comes to church with us. But I can't trust him. He shows me repeatedly that I can't trust him. He blames me for the affair and he bad mouths me to his family. I am thankful for the counsellor who helps me navigate all this craziness and the Lord who strengthens me every day. The counsellor says the amount of deception she witnessed is staggering and has even suggested that he may have some narcissistic tendencies.

I am just not sure if I am doing the right thing? My mother says, let him come back and prove he is trustworthy. To me that sounds like a recipe for disaster. I have hoped that in the last 5 months he would be doing something to show me he is trying to build back the trust. Nothing. Zippo. Only the opposite.

Am I doing the right thing? I would appreciate any advice or insights.

Thanks.

Dear sweet potato,

I am sorry you found yourself in this situation.
You are absolutely right, that you will not allow your husband to come home as long as he is still doing what you threw him out for and badmouthing you to his family.

There are a few things you should do:

1.
expose his behaviour to ALL people who may be able to influence him or whose opinions matter to him (family, friends, church, colleagues)

2.
find out who exactly these other women are and expose to people THEY find important and who could influence her/them to stop contact with your husband.

exposure of the affair lets people see their actions through the eyes of others, and that is not the rosy picture they imagined.

3.
normally a wife is advised to do 'plan A' and be extremely nice to her husband and be the ideal wife. In your case, as you have already thrown him out, you may want to go directly to 'plan B': no contact with your Wayward husband whatsoever.
At the moment, by going to church with him and helping him keep his facade upright, you are meeting some of his needs. Without that, he would be on his own and would start to miss you and the children faster and wither in his aloneness.

4.You may want to read the book 'surviving an affair' by Dr. Harley, which talks you through all of these steps.

When you decide to expose, do not warn your husband beforehand. Do not let him know what you want to do, because he will tell all folks, you are a raving lunatic so that they will not believe you (if he has not done so allready).

Start preparing an exposure letter and get the help of other people to get him back on track.

link to plan A
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2400725&#Post2400725

link to exposure letters normal
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2558469

link to exposure letters facebook
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2561142

link to how to survive an affair
http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=pop2

God bless

Happyheart

Happyheart has given you some wonderful MB advice. It's the plan recommended by Dr. Harley as the first steps to kill an affair.

I'll just add to this that you must have conditions for him, so that you will have a safe loving marriage. If you simply "forgive and forget," your marriage will continue to be a nightmare.

Also, tell your children (over the age of 4) what's going on. This advice runs counter to that of most marriage counselors. Then again, most MCs don't understand infidelity nor can most of them save marriages.

Kill the affair (s), if possible, and be ready to set the bar very high for his return.

MB has the best plan for recovery from affairs, but it has to be followed to work.

Post here but keep this website a secret and don't use any of the MB terms at first. Keep your strategy to yourself for now.

So sorry you are here.

Finally, you are NOT to blame for his scuzzy behavior. He has terrible boundaries around women and that is to blame.

SweetPotato, I am so sorry this has happened to you. The others are right. His affairs and his online infidelity should be exposed wide and far. To everyone, especially your children. Affairs and bad behavior thrive on secrecy so exposure is ruinous. By telling everyone, it is likely someone will get through to him.

Keeping his behavior a secret has only served to enable him, at your own expense.

I would then plan on going into what we call Plan B, which is a completely pitch dark separation where you do not see or speak to him. Seeing him in these circumstances will wear you down emotionally and physically FAST. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from enduring this kind of abuse.

The Plan B would be initiated by a love letter which tells him to not contact you. He cannot come in the house and must pick up the kids at the driveway for visitation. The letter specifies that the only way he can come home is if he a) ends his affair[s], stops the pornography and commits to a program of recovery.

When you negotiate a reconciliation with him, he would have to agree to get rid of the computer entirely and create a lifestyle so transparent that it would be impossible to do this again.

I would also file for divorce so that you have legal protection no matter what. And if he does not agree to your terms within 2 years, you will be better off divorced from him.

Please read the link in my signature about how to expose and get your hands on the book, Surviving an Affair by Dr Harley.

SP, Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has specialized in infidelity for 40 years and he would strongly disagree with your counselor on this issue. Giving kids false explanations about the source of the tension in their home teaches them to be dishonest and causes confusion. It also leaves them vulnerable to the lies and spin that a wayward parent will tell them. I would ask that you reconsider that bad advice.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

Hi Sweet_Potato

I sorry you have been dealing with such betrayal...

I'm a former wayward husband that devastated my wife and family too....

I could not be trusted at all until my actions demonstrated my willingness to change. Words are never enough!

The best suggestion I have for you would be to ask your H if he is willing to sit down with the kids and explain the reasons (in age appropriate terms) why he has been kicked out of the home. Leaving out NO details.
This would go a long way in demonstrating whether he is serious about repentance or just giving lip service to real changes.

If he will do this, you must do this together. He needs to be accountable to you for speaking the truth. And you'll only know if the truth is being spoken if you are there....

The second thing I would suggest is asking him to sit down with your In-Laws and doing the exact same thing I suggested with your kids. You must be there with him as well.

These two suggestions will tell you a great deal about his contrition and will show you whether he is for real.

If he bulks, sit down and tell your kids the entire truth yourself..... The In-Laws will be a waste of your time on your own.

These were but two things I did before my wife allowed me back into her life again....


I'll post a list of things she needed from me before going out on a limb and risking it all again with a liar and a cheat such as me. We are doing well only because she stood firm!

Again, I'm sorry you must go through this!

This was My wifes list of what she needed to be serious about taking a chance with me again....

Thank you so much for all of these responses and your caring comments.

Here are a couple questions I have.

1. He says the relationship with the woman is over. He says he hates everything that represented. Now that he is not in the house, I have absolutely no way of knowing since it was an online affair. If it truly is over, do I still expose him?

2. The online chatting that I have seen presently is actually a photo sharing site. He is into photography. He posts his pictures online and waits for the compliments to roll in. But, his conversations with the women on there are personal - asking them about their jobs, where they live. And - he portrays himself as single. In 1300 pics, there isn't a single one of me. So... I have told him - this is so inappropriate - your struggles have been online - you shouldn't be talking to anyone - ever. I sit and wait, and there he is, still carrying on. HerPapaBear - if he can't even stop doing that for me, am I even at the point where I can give him a list like your wife did?

Yes, everyone should know about the affair. Is the OW married? If so, her husband should be informed also. I doubt the affair is really over. If it is, then he is likely onto another one.


He would have to delete the account and stay off the computer altogether.

SP, this is why you need to completely cut off contact with him and go into Plan B. You have given him numerous chances to stop his abusive behavior and he has told you he won't. You shouldn't be in touch with him at all unless he does.

Your current set up actually serves to ENABLE him because he is getting all the benefits of home while having the freedom to conduct his affairs in peace. He now has no interference so this could go on eternally.

It is too bad you didn't slap a keylogger on his computer. Do you have access to his computer, by any chance? What about his cell phone bills?

I would shut the door airtight and have nothing to do with him until he commits to giving up his computer entirely and commits to doing what it takes to restore your marriage.

Check out this thread about Plan B: HOW TO PLAN B CORRECTLY

And here is a sample Plan B letter:

Find out who the other woman is and if she's married. Then contact her husband.

This will completely kill the affair in a manner you can't imagine.

How old are your kids?

I agree with all of Melody's advice.

No, your not at that point!


I suggested two things in my earlier post.
I'd ask him if he is willing to do these two things immediately.

You'll know what your next steps are based on his willingness/unwillingness....

My bet is he will be unwilling to do what I've suggested. If/when he bulks, it will allow you to feel comfortable going into plan B like ML has suggested.

As far as exposure.... One warning.... NEVER tell your H what you are about to do.... He will paint you as a bitter/vengeful wife before you get to these people.... It's just what waywards do!!!

If you don't require some major changes from your H, this is going to be the rest of your life.

Look at this way:

---if you go into Plan B, both of you understanding the conditions of his return, and he won't meet them, you have saved yourself years of misery at his hands. For I assure you, it will not stop.

---If he does want the marriage and agrees to your conditions, not in words, but in all his ACTIONS, then the marriage can start recovery. And you will have a safe marriage.

I didn't know about MB and therefore never set the bar for my marriage. My H started out rather like yours did. Over the years, the boundaries became sloppier. His IB was rampant, causing me great misery. Finally last year, after an affair that nearly destroyed our marriage, I found MB. Finally, I had a solid plan with conditions. If he didn't agree to them, I was out forever. Never again would I go through the emotional agony of adultery.

Don't listen to what your H says; watch what he DOES. And don't agree to anything less than completely changed conditions.

So, after writing out this post last night and reading some written by others, I thought, I am just going to ask him outright if he has had contact with the OW. I called him at the office and making it sound like I had evidence I said "can you tell me why you have been in contact with OW?" He said, "I haven't". I said, "I am not asking if you have been, I am asking why you have been." He said "I don't know..." I asked "who contacted whom first". He said "I contacted her." I said "why do you tell me you want the marriage restored while you are being unfaithful." He said "I do want the marriage back."

Oh my goodness. This is just crazy!! I have had enough! Now what? Is this normal affair deception or is this guy sick?

I did write to all the family and told them immediately. I told the pastor and an elder and apparently they are meeting with him tonight.

It is normal affair deception. Do you know if the OW is married? If so, I would call her husband.


Good job! Exposure is your greatest weapon to bring about recovery. I would also tell your children. They have a right to know exactly why their family is broken up.

DITTO!

She is not married. And honestly - telling my kids the details would destroy them. The MC suggested I say (when I asked him to move out in July) "Daddy has issues he need to deal with and he needs to deal with them outside the house." They know that Daddy has not worked on the issues and today I told them that I found out he has done the "bad thing" again. They are angry with him. My daughter says "I just want to tell him when I see him tomorrow night how mad I am." I said "you should". She then said "if I do, he will be so angry that you told me and that won't be good for your relationship."

Oh goodness - it's like I am burdening this innocent child with heavy parenting garbage. Isn't that enough? Does she actually need to know that Daddy has a girlfriend?

Oh no, it is affairs and lies that poison little kids. Lying to little kids about the source of tension in their just teaches them to be dishonest and causes them confusion. Your story makes no sense. Why would you try to confuse them more in an already confusing situation? Telling a kid that you have broken up over "issues" just cheapens marriage and demonstrates that marriages should break up over nothing.

Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. Kids are not stupid. You do your kids and your husband no favors by whitewashing his crimes. Lies and illusions do not make kids happy and secure, they make them confused and insecure.

Keep in mind that Dr.Harley is a clinical psychologist with 40 years experience specializing in infidelity. He is right and your MC is very, very wrong:

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

Yes, you dont call her a home-wrecking ho or anything, but a simple statement of fact - that daddy has a girlfriend just means you arent lying to your kids.

Plus remember that waywards arent discreet and that kids have big ears - do you want her to figure it out on her own, then feel she cant talk to you about it - because you obviously didnt want to talk about it with her?

SP,

Your children will appreciate at least one of their parents being honest with them.

As a Christian we are commanded to hold honesty as a highly guarded treasure. How much more so should we be teaching this to our own children, not by words, but by our actions.... The Book of Proverbs is filled with importance of truth and honesty!

Truth is not a burden on our children, "not knowing the real issues" is the burden....

In real life, I learned about my dads adultery from the OW's son.... I wish my mom would have told me, it was such a twisted way to learn about it during school from that idiot.

I've seen other similar stories on these forums. Some betrayed children learn about it from a sibling that just figures it out, and some from cousins or neighbor kids that have overheard parents discussing it....

Children need to learn about it from the source that will care enough to answer their questions honestly. That would be you!


My wife shared with all our children, that it was NOT OK for me to have a girlfriend, It's not OK with her and it's NOT OK with God. Each handled it differently, some confronted me (all the time) and some just grieved. My wife knew she was speaking to them, the truth in love.... In reality, she was guarding their hearts! My wife was strong enough to realize adultery is a battle that is also spiritual, and the enemy wants to destroy not only the marriage but also the children. The only way to protect them is with truth and with the light....

Praying for you and your children....