I can't function anymore. I think he is truly insane, but I can't understand how if insanity can strike as late as middle age, it is not common knowledge, like that schitzophrenia (sp?) strikes in the late teens or early twenties. If I had any idea that this would happen I would never have had children with him. Why does he want to punish me? How can anyone be so cruel? Why don't therapists recognize that sudden desertion is not normal - that it is an indication of mental illness? Why does the betrayer get everything he wants - divorce, visitation, no responsibility, sympathy from therapists because he was "hurting so much" and yet they act like I am unreasonable because I don't want the marriage to end. So what if maybe there is an outside chance that he will regret this in 5 or 10 years - our children's lives and mine have already been ruined. All but one of the oldest five children says they will never get married. They know that it is not safe to trust. THERE IS NO POINT TO LIVING (except that my children obviously need me, especially since they have effectively lost the father they always loved), NO POINT TO TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, NO POINT TO BEING GOOD - MOMENTARY PLEASURE IS THE BEST YOU CAN HOPE FOR. No one can be trusted. Anyone can turn against you without warning. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited October 31, 1999).]

Nellie,<P>If you are serious about this: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>THERE IS NO POINT TO LIVING<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please, run, don't walk to the nearest emergency room. Seriously. I do not take the threat of suicide lightly. You are hurting in a way that you cannot fix yourself. Find a babysitter, call a friend you can trust and get yourself some HELP!!!<P>Promise me you will do this. Right now!!!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

new beginning,<BR>Thanks for responding so quickly. No, I don't have any plans to commit suicide - I could not take away my children's only parent. But I completely understand how my sister feels, whose son was murdered last year. Although she is not suicidal, and is fully functional, she doesn't care whether she lives or dies, isn't concerned that she has been diagnosed with a heart condition that could kill her in 5-10 years (she is a lot older than I). I have to live to keep my children from being even more miserable than they already are. I used to think the "point" to life was to make some contribution - including the contribution of raising productive, responsible and caring members of society. But I see no hope of that happening anymore - my kids have been permanently terribly scarred by their father's abandonment and the destruction of their innocence and trust.<p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited October 31, 1999).]

Nellie, <P>Hi there, and I'm so happy to hear that you aren't considering suicide... the reason I take it so very seriously is because my son (who has disabilities) tried to hang himself in second grade. Long story. But I never ever take the threat lightly.<P>As far as your remark:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I used to think the "point" to life was to make some contribution - including the contribution of raising productive, responsible and caring members of society.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>YOU'RE STILL RIGHT!!! Even if it doesn't seem like it right now. You are right. NEVER EVER FORGET THAT!!<P>I'm very sorry for your continued pain...<P>and your poor sister... how horrible <P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Nellie,<P>Yes, your kids will be affected by the loss of their Dad in their daily lives if things stay this way. All the MORE reason for you to take care of yourself and be a happy, productive role model for them. believe me, I know this is hard, because my H is gone,too. But, the kids are still looking at and up to YOU each day.<P>This garbage that each of us is enduring is HARD< HARD< HARD, and depressing sometimes, too. But, you have those KIDS and they deserve the best. And so do YOU - make the best for yourself out of this maddening situation. <P>We are all pulling for you to feel better soon....<P>Roll Me Away

new beginning,<P>That must have been terrible for you, and your son. How old is your son now?<P>My 17 year old said a few months ago that she expected that at least one of her siblings would commit suicide within the next ten years. Obviously that worried me a great deal - I mentioned it to the therapist and my H - my H didn't say a word, and the therapist said that my daughter was probably projecting - I don't think so, I think she was expressing genuine concern for her younger siblings' mental states, but if she was projecting, shouldn't the therapist have been a tad concerned? My daughter is off at college now, and seems to have completely disconnected herself from the situation. She seems happy, but acts like this whole thing isn't part of her life anymore - she hasn't spoken to her father since the day he left, doesn't want me to mention his name. She said she doesn't have a father anymore.<P>Roll Me Away,<P>I just don't believe that anything I do can possibly come close to compensating for the destruction that his desertion has wrought. Sure, days pass, years will pass, but they will always know that you can't trust the ones you think love you, and that will affect their entire future, and every relationship they have.<p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited October 31, 1999).]

i know theses words may not be of any comfort to you right now, but God promises us He will not let us experience any more than we can handle. all i can do from afar is pray for you and your situation. intersessory (sp) prayer does work, i know firsthand. you are a very special person in the right that you are God's child. We are all experiencing extreme difficulties and choose to post here on this site. call on your closest friend, and of course we are all here to help out the best we can. if you want motivation to live go visit a nursing home, veterans home, or a developmentally handicapped residence. you will leave there thanking God for what you have. dont take anything wrong what im saying, here, i just got back from a 3 mile walk today, and thanked God that im able to walk, see, talk, smell the fall day, touch the leaves from the trees. no matter what our situation, we can always find something to be thankful for. take care and God bless<BR>jerry

Yes, the therapist should have been more than a tad concerned, I agree.<P>My son is now 14, and has been in and out of counseling for years. He has neurological disabilites, which are mostly invisible. He is now on hospital home care, which means a teacher comes to our home to teach him 2x a week with my intervention the rest of the time. His dad never did appreciate the significance of our son's disabilities, in fact, couldn't list his disabilities until about 6 months ago (although he was diagnosed five years ago) because he just didn't want to face that he had a "less than perfect son"... it's a man-thing I am told. This is his only son (we have two older daughters) and he wanted him to play baseball and hike and all that man-stuff he will never do well.<P>Are you the one with six or seven kids?<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

toolbox,<BR>Thanks for your response. I realize things could be worse, and I am thankful that my kids are reasonably healthy, physically.<P>new beginning,<P>Yes - it is six kids. My 19 and 17 year olds are in college, and I have homeschooled for years. My H had always been supportive of homeschooling until she got her hooks into him. Our youngest is speech delayed (our 13 year old used to be also), and I am certain that our 7 year old would be diagnosed as ADD/ODD if she were in school. I am dreading putting them in school, but financially I am probably going to have to go back to work fulltime. Our son is extremely sensitive, not athletic, and I am afraid he is going to have a hard time in school. The last time he was in school, in second grade, he had no real friends, yet he makes friends easily with certain kids, and many adults have told me how polite he is.

Nellie,<P>Normally I don't agree with alimony, but in your case, I'd push for it so you can continue to home school your children. They are his kids too, right?<P>Absolutely, positively, I would push for as much money as you need to take care of your children. Tough crap if he can't afford it. <P>You are a superior mother! You need the freedom and cash to continue what you are doing so very well!!!<P>PS: I work for a college, and I can tell you that the students we see from the public school system are so ill-equiped... you are doing a great thing!!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Sheryl,<P>I used to work for a college also, as a lecturer and in academic support, and saw the same thing. <P>One disadvantage of pushing for as much money as I can get is that it makes him all that much more dependent on her for financial support. While he was at home, she apparently supported the affair, and for a couple of months after he left, he took little more than enough money for lunch, so she must have been supporting him then, too. <P>Yes, they are his kids, too, but he is so frightened of not having enough money that that is his first priority. It probably has something to do with his childhood - he never went hungry, but he was quite poor.

Nellie,<P>Well, let her support him then! But all of "his" money had better be coming back into your home, you know?<P>My H was also poor growing up, and he and I have discussed child support issues. He agrees to pay the amount of our rent ($632) and I agree not to press for more. I don't want him to suffer. I'm sure you feel the same. But if the OW can and wants to support him, and he's there anyway, let her. She'll get tired of it, and him, soon enough, I bet! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Nellie, I know exactly how you feel. I'm feeling pretty much the same right now. Especially the part about "no point to being good". I feel like I gave ALL I had, ALL I was capable of and I end up no where. Maybe that is why I am acting out the way I am. I feel let down by everyone in my life, and have NO TRUST. And no hope that it will ever change. Thats why I've been going for the momentary pleasures, but that doesn't work either. I keep telling myself tomorrow is another day, but I am losing faith in everything, especially me.<BR><BR>I am glad to hear that you are NOT contemplating anything bad. Your kids will always need you, so hang on to that, and that you have done all you can.

Nellie,<BR>I feel for you, its hard to understand spouses can leave their kids.<P>When my w was floating the divorce paper around she even went as far as under reporting her income, twice! She even said recently that if we got divorced she supposed that I would still want the $3-400 per month in child support. I can just bet she will be pushing for her 50% of everything else.<P>As for your kids homeschooling, I would imagine this is just another way the om makes you look bad. h is probably blaming you for the disablities. <P>Tell him you will inroll them in private school then as long as he pays for it and I bet his tune will change. Either that or public school and then he and om can take them when they have visitation.<P>Thats when my w's relationship with om seemed to break down was when my w threatened to take the kids away from me. I think that this may have scared some reality into om, I don't think he was counting on raising 2 kids. He thought he was getting some single crazy woman to live out his life.

Sheryl,<BR>She must be partially supporting him - I don't see how he could have afforded to go on such a nice vacation on what he has left after the expenses I know about. She apparently hasn't tired of it yet - they bought a swing set for my kids, beds, many small presents.<BR>ATW,<BR>I, too, feel like there is no hope that it will ever get better. There is nothing that anyone whom you trust can do that is worse than abandonment. I was reading in the paper today about a man who shot his estranged wife to death and then himself. It said that he had not wanted the divorce that she was seeking. A year ago I would have assumed she was fleeing an abusive H - but now I immediately jumped to the conclusion that she left him for an OM. The really sad thing is that they left behind two kids who are now orphans.<P>RWD,<BR>I would love to suggest enrolling them in private school - actually my H probably would like to too, if either of us could afford it. I doubt that the court would order him to pay for that.

Hi Nellie:<P>I am just heartsick for you. SIX children! I have two and can't imagine. But I feel just devestated and the world feels very cruel at this point. I can't imagine it ever feeling safe anymore. I need some Kleenex now. I will definitely stop right in my tracks NOW and pray for you.<P>God bless.<p>[This message has been edited by Hurt Bad (edited October 31, 1999).]

Hi Nellie,<BR> It seems you read in the paper all the time about murder/suicide within relationships.Used to be,I could never understand it.Now I understand plenty,just like you.When my W left,and I knew she was sleeping with him,I had several thought of shooting him,or myself,the pain was so unbearable.We,too,went to a sh!tty marriage counseler,who promptly advised us to"separate for a while".Then later I read that once you separate,the affair continues,and the marriage will probably fail.Maybe I should sue him for his lousy advise. Just curious,what made you decide to have six children? I was thinking if your H is having a MLC,could it be that he's running away from all that responsibility?Do you think that could be a part of it?I often wonder what eventually becomes of people who suffer a MLC,or just run away?Do they ever really"find themself"? Food for thought. --Murph

dxrt and Hurt Bad,<BR>Thanks for caring.<P>Murphy,<BR>Yes, I think he is having a MLC - I have read that it usually lasts 3-5 years, with about one year being most intense. He told me that he can't separate his feelings about me from his feelings about our financial situation. His affair started only weeks after our oldest began college, and assuming they all go, we will have at least one in college almost constantly for the next 17 or so years. <P>We actually planned to have 4 kids at one point - the last two were not exactly planned, but a year or two after the last was born, my H said that he would have liked to have had more if we could have afforded it. I wouldn't have minded either, if I could have skipped the delivery part. He admitted to me that as of a year ago last spring (a few months before his affair began) he had no intentions of leaving me.

Nellie1: I hope you are feeling at least alittle better today. Please don't do the "death" thing. I have enough doom and gloom and thoughts of suicide to cover everyone in this forum, so considered yourself covered. I know this is difficult for me to say especially coming from someone who has attempted suicide, twice, but we have to work together to get through this painful period. You are right about one thing. I am a betrayer and yes some of us do go through a period of temporary insanity, but not all of us get off easy. Some such as myself do regret our behavior and wish we could erase the whole ordeal. However, we cannot, so we live trying to somehow clean up the damage we have done. Healing is slow and sometimes unbearable for both betrayed and betrayer. Whatever happens between you and your spouse, don't ever lose sight of what's important. Your children(they usually live a long time and are always needing you) and YOURSELF! Com'on, from a betrayer to a betrayed, in some strange way, we have got to help each other out. My prayers and love to you

Nellie, hope you are feeling better today. I know how you feel, as I've been in that same cloudy place. Be nice to Nellie right now. She needs it. Hugs and prayers to you and the children.