I did it too. I tried to connect, I tried to engage, I tried to find out what she wanted, but was always told fine, even though it obviously wasn't fine.

So I developed hobbies. If she was going to spend all ther time parenting, then I'd develop some hobbies with guys and see if she would re-engage in the marriage once the kids were older, or out of the home.

So how do you engage, emotionally, with someone who holds you at bay?

After all, all I heard was that she couldn't talk to me. My response? What can I do to make it easier for you to talk to me?

Silence.

Can't work with no feedback. If you don't want to talk now, call me when you want to, I'm going to play with the boys. If you can't give me even one thing I can do to make it possible for you to talk to me, then I can't even begin to guess how to address this.

So believe me, I get the parallel lifestyles. It's a survival technique. You try and try to reach your wife, and keep meeting with that wall, eventually you run out of gas and stop trying to convince her to let down the draw bridge.

There are only so many times you can sit outside the wall and say Mrs EE, please tear down that wall.

If you keep running into the wall, and your spouse will not tear it down, eventually you learn to stop running into it.

Parallel lifestyles result from learning to stop running into the walls built by your spouse.

Thank you. That was an aspect of my story. You built that wall that I spoke of in the above post. Eventually, your spouse gets tired of running into the wall and also adopts the independent lifestyle.

It's what I was saying regarding avoiding SF, then wondering why you don't feel close to your husband. By rejecting SF, you are not using the largest, most effective tool you have to get close to the typical husband. If you are not using the most effective means, then why complain that you are not getting the results?

Yet when he is paying attention it's rejected.

So it's that push-pull. I want him to pay attention to me, and when he does, it's rejected.

So he goes off and says when you want me, here I am, waiting for you. I've pursued you and you've rejected me, so when you are ready, here I am.

And she totally misses this and says he's not there,w when he's said, I'm right here where you left me when you rejected me.

Sometimes.

Sometimes it takes someone else to end their destrucitive behavior to have a good marriage.

One person looking at their own contribution may go far if the other values their contributions. But if they never regard the contributions of their spouse,the changes made by one will have no positive effect on the marriage.

Plan A, regardless of gender is for a finite and limited time. Because meeting the needs of your spouse without getting your own needs met is not a sustainable system.

I never said they were perfectly overlapping. I'm using a simile. However, addictive behavior does steal from those we love. So in that sense, all addictive behavior cheats and steals from those we love.

If we wreck our marriage because we are giving more attention to our children than we are our spouses, we are cheating our children out of a solid family. We steal the security that comes from an intact family.

So, to some extent, all addictions cheat and steal from our family. Not just the "ugly" ones.

I can understand what you are saying. It is hard (not impossible). As a Marine I rarely ever got feedback until a task or mission was accomplished. Not getting the response you want? Go back, reassess the sitch and regroup and hit it again from a different angle.

In MB terms, is it possible you knew the need but weren't meeting it the way she wanted?

My point (which I hope wasn't missed) is that there is a qualitative difference between your simile's

Somewhat more on topic... Tex I'm glad we could get you some action (even if it wasn't the kind you were hoping for!)

Can I throw depression into this conversation?

Some depression is situational.... Dealth, lose of friends, loss of jobs, affairs..

Some depression is chemical, to varying degree's.

How does depression lead to or effect sexual aversion? What do the Harley's say about that?

CV, Thanks. Check my thread for more info.

TTS, when you go to reply to a post, click on "quote" and it will quote the post to which you are responding. You can then delete any part of the post. Another way is to place the quoted comments inside this, but remove the asterisks: [*quote]text[/quote*]


Yes, he addresses sexual aversion in several places. Here is a good one: How to Overcome Sexual Aversion

What to Do with a Depressed Spouse

Dr. Harley answered several emails with questions about sex yesterday:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3414
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3415

Markos,

Those were very good segments. I found myself listening late last night for over an hour. This may be the thing I can get my WW to listen to.

Do you know if the callers are screened ahead of time? Are they couples who have signed up for phone therapy or just random callers?

Vets,

Is there such a thing as touch aversion or is it just a reaction that a touch is associated with SF?

For example, a gentle touch on the back, the butt, the neck or the arms seems to evoke a pull away from wife. Is it touch aversion or misinterpretation?

I've stated to her that it is not sexual, but intimate contact that I need? Would that be affection?

How to get on the radio show .... LINK

TTS, anyone can get on the show. All you do is email Mrs Harley at the email address on the radio page. They then contact you and have you call in at a specified time. Often they will talk to you on the phone beforehand.

When a woman is out of love and is sexually averse, she associates any touch with her aversion.

Just out of curiosity... Does she react the same way say if you touch her face gently or run your fingers through her hair? Something that might be deemed intimate but not sexual?

Texas, anybody can get on the show. It's like a free counseling session, paid for by somebody else. Go for it! Email Joyce, and she'll get you on the show.

Joyce announced last week their spam filter had been blocking a lot of people; they've tried to correct that, but if you don't get through, click "notify" and ask the mods to help you connect.

Dr. Harley and Joyce love to help get marriages back on track. I was on the show last month and it really turned things around for us.

By the way, you can go through those archives and listen to every show online. I have worked my way through months and months of Dr. Harley and Joyce, and I have gained so much in the way of marriage tools and motivation. I cannot speak highly enough about it. I recommend you tune in every single day!

Bingo! This is the correct answer.

I hate to say it, but Prisca has been in and out of love many times in our marriage (and we all know who is primarily responsible for that). I've watched her sex drive and her feelings about touch go from one extreme to the other. It lags after the feeling of romantic love. Restore the feeling of romantic love first, then after awhile the desire for touch, affection, and SF will (typically) follow. But the very first thing is to restore that feeling of romantic love. Only after that has been in place, and steady for awhile, can you start asking if there's something else wrong. But odds are, you won't have to ask at that point.

If your wife isn't receiving your touch as affection, chances are something else about your behavior needs to change for her to be able to emotionally (not logically) trust that you truly care for her. Something is missing.

Dr. Harley can help you find it.

She probably needs some non-touch affection from you.

To get good hints, watch what female veteran posters suggest to serious formerly wayward husbands. A betrayed wife typically won't react positively to a typical sign of affection from her recently wayward husband, but she still craves and needs and responds to affection. She won't accept touch, I love you's, etc., until she's seen affection demonstrated in other ways that prove that he cares for her and is committed to being a part of her happiness and a part of the solution to her problems in life.